Hmflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 83 posts, RR: 0 Posted (13 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2078 times:
Today while filing for CH. 11, UAL said it expects to lose $22 Million a day in December and $10-$15 million a day in January. This is an astounding loss rate, much more than I could ever have imagined. No wonder they were turned down my the ATSB, there was no way they could have granted a loan guarantee with these numbers.
This is what happens when a company is so arrogant as to think that they are too big to fail. Or when the employees believe that the company can pay them huge salaries, "because the money is there". It is also an example of just plain old bad management.
I hope that the current management team has the talent to do what needs to be done to bring UAL through bankruptcy. Hopefully this is a new beginning for UAL employees, and not the beginning of the end.
MSY-MSP From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (13 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2032 times:
Just makes me wonder if UA is losing $22M a day, how much are the others losing. I know AA is trying to make consesions with its unions to lower costs etc., but I believe their cash burn rate was higher that UA's based on the last released numbers. However, lets assume their rate is half that of UA's, ie $11M per day, that means that in the next 60 days AA will lose $660M. I forget what their cash reserves are, but that will have to put a dent into their stability as well. I think that we are on the cusp of a bankruptcy rush by the airlines just to survive. I remember reading another post about CO that said we are drowning in 2 feet of water and everyone else is drowning in 200 feet. This is looking to be quite true.
If anyone has numbers for other airlines on a per day rate and available cash reserves, it could be interesting to do the math.
B747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1931 times:
The statement was made by Jamie Spreyregen of K&E during court proceedings today. Having worked with Jamie extensively on the TWA bankruptcy case, I can assure you that he is a slimy snake and that you should take what he says with a huge pinch of salt.
Artsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4748 posts, RR: 32
Reply 9, posted (13 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1852 times:
At Continental, they lost 37 million for the last quarter, basically divide the 37 by 90, and you get a daily cash burn of $411,000. A lot of money to lose, but a lot less than 22 million a day
The current quarter is worse, so the cash burn will be worse, but savings are kicking in at Continental now, simple things like charging for alcohol on Transatlantics has managed to boost liquer revenue by 46%
N757st From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 466 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (13 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1755 times:
FlyingBronco- You are an ass. If you are serious with your thread, and with your profile, then you should be ashamed. What would happen if your parents airline went out of buisness?!? You want 80000+ people on the streets? From what I have read of your recent posts you not only sound like a 13yo child, you sound like an immature 13 yo child. Even though many people on the forums here and everywhere give united critism, none of them WANT them to fail, and if you do you should be ashamed. What would a UA chap 7 mean?
Higher prices for everyone and 80000 people out of jobs.
Think about that next time you want to post. how you would feel if you or "your dad" were working for that airline.
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 15247 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (13 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1745 times:
Yes, you are the only one who wants UA to fail. While many of us work for competitors that may stand to gain from UA stumbling a bit, NONE of us wants to see UA go out of business entirely.
Why? Because it could just as easily be any of us in the position of the over 80,000 fine men and women who work for that proud carrier. I can guarantee that if, God forbid, the same misfortunes that have befallen UA came calling at other airlines, their employees would at least know their colleagues at other carriers are in their corner.
You sound as if you have a great deal of growing up to do.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
UAL1837 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (13 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1687 times:
Hey CAL Pilot, all I'm doing is saying that from what I see, I think United can pull through. None of us has the power to forsee the future, we do not know what will happen. I'm just sick of people taking a stupid pessimistic attitude.
I would attempt to call a truce on this whole matter...but people here are too immature to do so.
BTW, I know you & the rest of CAL wants Denver back...we'll see about that.
Maiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 45
Reply 21, posted (13 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1661 times:
I feel for the employees, (All except the Mechanics) but, I do want them to go under also. I hope that the CEO and all the union leaders burn in hell and have to carry the burden of driving a once great airline nose first into the ground. Kinda like Jacob Marley had to carry the chains for eternity in Scrooge.
Ouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4672 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (13 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1586 times:
United 3Q cash burn rate was around $10 mil while AMR was noted around $5.3 mil per day. AMR's 4Q numbers will be effected by the sale of Executive to a San Juan businessman and the ability is now in their hands to transfer more flying to Eagle & Connection through reverse code-sharing. As others have stated, AMR has the benefit of a profitable Eagle operation to subsidize mainline - much like Delta with Comair & ASA. The terms Delta the Comair Connection will never be more real. Welcome to the new dawn of commercial aviation. United employees - my best through this rough time.
If I may, I do want to throw something out there for everyone to think about. UAL has close to 80,000 employees active and on furlough. If UAL Chapter 7's, those workers will be displaced for the medium term - until the industry recovers (majority of workers, except pilots will be qualified to find jobs in other industries...such as call centers and retail (CSRs), mechanical shops such as plants or trade schools, etc. So here it is...
Do we let United fail for the benefit of other airline workers? How many more employees will be laid off at other airlines if United is allowed to reorganize? How many employees at other airlines will be saved if United is allowed to fail? Do we concentrate the layoffs (job losses) at one airline or does everyone share in the pain?
Not meant to attack any airline, just questions to think about.
: EA CO AS is too right in the statement that it could be any of us in UA's shoes. While there is some obvious mismanagement at UA that has lead to Chap
: UAL 1837, Ok, a truce. But that is NOT what you said. You said the cash burn was not what Tilton told the Judge in BK. So you have knowledge that UAL
: As far as CO making a move on DEN; I doubt that we have enough financial power to afford any major expansions.
: FlyingBronco... I have allot of sympathy for your opinion and I hold to variant of it myself. But you ought to be more tactfull and factual in present
: FlyingBronco, Just wanted to add that I have made many posts that are cynical about United and have even said that liquidation may be the best option.