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UAL Losing $22 Million A Day  
User currently offlineHmflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 83 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1698 times:

Today while filing for CH. 11, UAL said it expects to lose $22 Million a day in December and $10-$15 million a day in January. This is an astounding loss rate, much more than I could ever have imagined. No wonder they were turned down my the ATSB, there was no way they could have granted a loan guarantee with these numbers.

This is what happens when a company is so arrogant as to think that they are too big to fail. Or when the employees believe that the company can pay them huge salaries, "because the money is there". It is also an example of just plain old bad management.

I hope that the current management team has the talent to do what needs to be done to bring UAL through bankruptcy. Hopefully this is a new beginning for UAL employees, and not the beginning of the end.

Good luck UAL.

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1685 times:

I personally think it is the beginning of the end for United. It will be a long and painful road to oblivion, a la Pan Am/TWA.



User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1674 times:

Thats up to $1.1-1.2B loss in by the end of January. Wow, thats...bad.

User currently offlineMSY-MSP From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1652 times:

Just makes me wonder if UA is losing $22M a day, how much are the others losing. I know AA is trying to make consesions with its unions to lower costs etc., but I believe their cash burn rate was higher that UA's based on the last released numbers. However, lets assume their rate is half that of UA's, ie $11M per day, that means that in the next 60 days AA will lose $660M. I forget what their cash reserves are, but that will have to put a dent into their stability as well. I think that we are on the cusp of a bankruptcy rush by the airlines just to survive. I remember reading another post about CO that said we are drowning in 2 feet of water and everyone else is drowning in 200 feet. This is looking to be quite true.

If anyone has numbers for other airlines on a per day rate and available cash reserves, it could be interesting to do the math.

MSY-MSP


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13479 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1615 times:
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The burn rates (if posted) in each company's financial results will be inaccurate, as they only reflect the rates current as of the end of 3Q02, ended 30 September.

Since burn rates will have increased (due to slower traffic) compared to 3Q numbers, it's sufficient to say they will be markedly worse than last reported.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineUAL1837 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1586 times:

The loss rate is nowhere near that much. I read the company message sent out to UAL employees, it did not state that the company will be losing that much money.

User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1549 times:

UAL 1837, you don't lie in a CH 11 filing.

User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1551 times:

The statement was made by Jamie Spreyregen of K&E during court proceedings today. Having worked with Jamie extensively on the TWA bankruptcy case, I can assure you that he is a slimy snake and that you should take what he says with a huge pinch of salt.

User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1483 times:

Here in the airline industry, we lose money the old-fashion way.
We burn it.  Sad


User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 9, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 1472 times:

At Continental, they lost 37 million for the last quarter, basically divide the 37 by 90, and you get a daily cash burn of $411,000. A lot of money to lose, but a lot less than 22 million a day

The current quarter is worse, so the cash burn will be worse, but savings are kicking in at Continental now, simple things like charging for alcohol on Transatlantics has managed to boost liquer revenue by 46%

Jeremy


User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 1453 times:

Whoops, stumbled on an anti-united thread.
sorry.


ual 777 contrail


User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 1442 times:

I just have one comment.

"BWOOP BWOOP, SINK RATE"


User currently offlinePropilotJW From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 589 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 1441 times:

UAL1837, UAL is losing that much...were you there when they filed? No.

User currently offlineFlyingbronco05 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3840 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1405 times:

Am I the only one that wants United to fail?!

The company has been mismanaged for years now and they are paying the penalties now. They even got fined by the FAA for flying non airworthiness planes. How pathetic is that?



Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
User currently offlineN757st From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 354 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1375 times:

FlyingBronco- You are an ass. If you are serious with your thread, and with your profile, then you should be ashamed. What would happen if your parents airline went out of buisness?!? You want 80000+ people on the streets? From what I have read of your recent posts you not only sound like a 13yo child, you sound like an immature 13 yo child. Even though many people on the forums here and everywhere give united critism, none of them WANT them to fail, and if you do you should be ashamed. What would a UA chap 7 mean?
Higher prices for everyone and 80000 people out of jobs.

Think about that next time you want to post. how you would feel if you or "your dad" were working for that airline.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13479 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1365 times:
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Flyingbronco-

Yes, you are the only one who wants UA to fail. While many of us work for competitors that may stand to gain from UA stumbling a bit, NONE of us wants to see UA go out of business entirely.

Why? Because it could just as easily be any of us in the position of the over 80,000 fine men and women who work for that proud carrier. I can guarantee that if, God forbid, the same misfortunes that have befallen UA came calling at other airlines, their employees would at least know their colleagues at other carriers are in their corner.

You sound as if you have a great deal of growing up to do.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1353 times:

I agree wholeheartedly, I dig into the Ual mentality a lot on here, I don't like how they are doing things, but I do not make it personal and I am concerned for the employees

Jeremy


User currently offlineCALPilot From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 998 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1323 times:

UAL 1837,

Brian keep repeating to yourself "I think I can, I think I can". Then maybe when you wake up you will find out it was all a bad dream, and all those bad press releases today were not for real.


User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1314 times:

Yea! UAL will survive! Ya, right.

User currently offlineUAL1837 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1307 times:

Hey CAL Pilot, all I'm doing is saying that from what I see, I think United can pull through. None of us has the power to forsee the future, we do not know what will happen. I'm just sick of people taking a stupid pessimistic attitude.

I would attempt to call a truce on this whole matter...but people here are too immature to do so.

BTW, I know you & the rest of CAL wants Denver back...we'll see about that.


User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1292 times:

flyingbronco has the respect rating he deserves. Cheers to Johan for the rating system its begining to work.

User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1281 times:

I feel for the employees, (All except the Mechanics) but, I do want them to go under also. I hope that the CEO and all the union leaders burn in hell and have to carry the burden of driving a once great airline nose first into the ground. Kinda like Jacob Marley had to carry the chains for eternity in Scrooge.

User currently offlineCanarsie VOR From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1244 times:

If United is losing that much per day, I wonder how much American is losing as I'm sure they are not that far behind in terms of cash losses.

User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1215 times:

AA is currently burning cash at the rate of 5-7 million per day.

User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4545 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1206 times:

United 3Q cash burn rate was around $10 mil while AMR was noted around $5.3 mil per day. AMR's 4Q numbers will be effected by the sale of Executive to a San Juan businessman and the ability is now in their hands to transfer more flying to Eagle & Connection through reverse code-sharing. As others have stated, AMR has the benefit of a profitable Eagle operation to subsidize mainline - much like Delta with Comair & ASA. The terms Delta the Comair Connection will never be more real. Welcome to the new dawn of commercial aviation. United employees - my best through this rough time.

If I may, I do want to throw something out there for everyone to think about. UAL has close to 80,000 employees active and on furlough. If UAL Chapter 7's, those workers will be displaced for the medium term - until the industry recovers (majority of workers, except pilots will be qualified to find jobs in other industries...such as call centers and retail (CSRs), mechanical shops such as plants or trade schools, etc. So here it is...

Do we let United fail for the benefit of other airline workers? How many more employees will be laid off at other airlines if United is allowed to reorganize? How many employees at other airlines will be saved if United is allowed to fail? Do we concentrate the layoffs (job losses) at one airline or does everyone share in the pain?

Not meant to attack any airline, just questions to think about.



Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
25 Post contains images TzMSP : EA CO AS is too right in the statement that it could be any of us in UA's shoes. While there is some obvious mismanagement at UA that has lead to Chap
26 CALPilot : UAL 1837, Ok, a truce. But that is NOT what you said. You said the cash burn was not what Tilton told the Judge in BK. So you have knowledge that UAL
27 CALPilot : As far as CO making a move on DEN; I doubt that we have enough financial power to afford any major expansions.
28 Cloudy : FlyingBronco... I have allot of sympathy for your opinion and I hold to variant of it myself. But you ought to be more tactfull and factual in present
29 Cloudy : FlyingBronco, Just wanted to add that I have made many posts that are cynical about United and have even said that liquidation may be the best option.
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