Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Gordon Bethune Speaks On UAL  
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16829 posts, RR: 51
Posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3170 times:

Good interview,

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/metropolitan/1702060


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAA717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3125 times:

The only airline and airline employees that Bethune is required to worry about are CAL and its people. He's doing a great job.TC


FL450, M.85
User currently offlineDeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1701 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3034 times:

Gordon Bethune has done much for COA. CO has had a stormy past, in and out of bankruptcy 3 times. Since 1993, CO has grown by leaps and bounds, and continues to do very well. Kudos to Bethune.


Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
User currently offlineNorthwest_guy From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 217 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3019 times:

Gordon Bethune has done an incredible job at Continental, but he doesn't need to tell other airlines what they're doing wrong or how they should operate. He's got enough on his hands with Continental, I don't think he should be worrying about other airlines.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16829 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3001 times:

CO has been in bankruptcy twice, not three times.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5492 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2980 times:

CO's had two, not three, bankruptcies.

Gordon Bethune has done an incredible job at Continental, but he doesn't need to tell other airlines what they're doing wrong or how they should operate. He's got enough on his hands with Continental, I don't think he should be worrying about other airlines.

I beg to differ; if the issue is whether the other airlines will receive a massive infusion of taxpayer-guaranteed funds with which to compete with his company, then Bethune has not only the right, but the obligation, to speak out. Worrying about other airlines is his job.

Weak management and poor planning put UAL where it is; and a component part of that puzzle has been the precipitous run-up in labor costs which accompanies weak management and poor negotiation practices. The effect of these increased costs cannot help but be felt across the industry, especially when they exist at a carrier as large as United.

If the capacity United is flying could be effectively replaced by a more efficient operator, then it should be; and any jobs which would be lost thereby, well, they were (while they existed) "found money" for the employees.

If United's fundamental structure was doomed to fail- and the ATSB (and many analysts) believed that it was- loaning money with federal government loan guarantees would have been the height of folly, of throwing good money after bad.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineDeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1701 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2973 times:

Typo. Sorry for the confusion.


Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 7, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2909 times:

I think Gordon is getting some unfair press here, I keep reading how he lobbied hard against United getting the ATSB loan, but they fail to mention that Carty and Mullen were lobbying just as hard, and were just as happy with the outcome.

Jeremy


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2905 times:

He's definately getting the most attention, but he's also the one being most vocal. Cartey and Mullen (and Eddington too) have all lobbied behind the scenes, but for the most part, Bethune is the one that keeps giving quotes to the press, so he's the one that everyone is going to talk about.


"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineSpeedport From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2761 times:

Gordon Bethune is a loud mouth, ego tripping, arrogant SOB, who should be careful what he wishes for.

I hope his words come back and bite him on the ass, hard!


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2746 times:

You cannot deny his success at CO.

As a spotter, I love his Boeing fleet with the rare 739, 753, 762, 764 etc!




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2740 times:

Gordon Bethune is a loud mouth, ego tripping, arrogant SOB, who should be careful what he wishes for.

I hope his words come back and bite him on the ass, hard!


Sounds like a spit of jealousy to me!

Did you work for Eastern Airlines or something in a past life?  Big grin


User currently offlineGlobalDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2705 times:

Gordon is just saying what most are only thinking. The hand writing is on the wall, he is reading it aloud.

Fact is, nothing is possibly happening to UA now, that didn't happen to Eastern, Braniff, Pan Am, TWA or Continental. UA took advantage of other carriers in trouble in the past, that is how they aquired their jewels of Heathrow, Narita, grew Denver to a fortress, along with other things. I am sure that other airlines are closely eyeing the goings on, this is about business, afterall. UA would be doing the same if the tables were turned.

Gordon can be a loud mouth, but he just has the nerve to say what everyone else in the industry is looking at. I feel for the 85k employess of UA, but many of their careers and seniorities grew while others in the industry floundered. It may be time to pay the piper. I guess we will see in the coming months.


User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2693 times:

Yeah, Gordon is cool with me.

I am glad he spoke up. Why should everyone else's tax dollars go to bail out United? Which Gordon himself as a taxpayer would wind up doing, paying for his competition's mistakes. Let United fall, I agree with him.

If United had management like Gordon, they wouldn't be going through these problems now.


User currently offlineDirkSavage From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2679 times:

In order to write-off seven billion dollars of dept.........ol' Gordy just cancelled all of the outstanding common stock back in the 90's. Screwed the individual investor (myself included) and laid a real hose job on SAS. 'eff him.

User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2668 times:

I beg to differ at Bethune's success at Continental. I guess there aren't many of you who know how to read a spread sheet or a 10Q... but that's ok. If you think flying 9 types of a plane is success, then so be it. Too bad continental has almost NO assets...

by the way, which airline was the FIRST to ask for some sort of government assistance when 9/11 happened?

take a wild guess

oh come on  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

it's not too hard!


User currently offlineFleet service From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 622 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2661 times:

any jobs which would be lost thereby, well, they were (while they existed) "found money" for the employees.

I've read a lot of asinine posts on A.net over the years, but that takes the cake.

Can we apply that to anyone else that loses their job as well? "Well,all the years you worked here, hey that was found money buddy!"

Should you lose your job will you go home and tell your wife not to worry, after all you were living on "Found Money" right?

Found money is just that.A career, a job you've had for years is not "Found money".

Are the other airline CEO's relieved UAL didn't get the ATSB loan? Absolutely.
Will They be on CNBC and tossing out colorful quotes? Hardly.



Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2658 times:

better pray that Continental doesn't go down the shitter.... if they go bankrupt again, they have no assets for the secured creditors!

-n


User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 18, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2643 times:

Too bad continental has almost NO assets...

No airline in America has any assets worth speaking of, their planes arent worth much as no one is buying. Continental has 1 billion in unencumbered assets, thats it, United had 24 billion, where did it get them ?, assets are only worth what people are willing to pay for them, and at this time, that isnt much

Continentals biggest assets are their employees, almost all of them are so proud to work for Continental and remember the days of whispering C...n..t..l when asked what airline we worked for.

Work hard, fly right

Jeremy



User currently offlineClefan From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 299 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2602 times:

DirkSavage said:
In order to write-off seven billion dollars of dept.........ol' Gordy just cancelled all of the outstanding common stock back in the 90's. Screwed the individual investor (myself included) and laid a real hose job on SAS. 'eff him.

Dont blame Gordon, that wasn't him. He came after the bankruptcy filing. He comments in his book that when he arrived the stock was 3 bucks, and during his time it went up to 60.

If Im wrong, please correct me.


User currently offlineLaxflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2610 times:

Whats the matter honey, that time of the month?

"Gordon Bethune is a loud mouth, ego tripping, arrogant SOB, who should be careful what he wishes for.I hope his words come back and bite him on the ass, hard!"

I'll bet your just the bell of the ball on your bowling team toots. Since you have this hatred for Gordon and CO, perhaps you should stick to transportation that best suits your personality...GO GRAYHOUND!


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2550 times:

In order to write-off seven billion dollars of dept.........ol' Gordy just cancelled all of the outstanding common stock back in the 90's. Screwed the individual investor (myself included) and laid a real hose job on SAS. 'eff him.

Yes, and saved an airline and about 45,000 jobs. I guess it sucks to be you, but in the end, the employees were more important at that time than you were. I'm quite happy with Gordon and what he's helped to accomplish at CO.

by the way, which airline was the FIRST to ask for some sort of government assistance when 9/11 happened?

SegmentKing, let's get this right: Gordon was the first to say that the Government should reimburse the airlines for losses incurred because of a GOVERMENT-MANDATED shutdown between 9/11 and 9/15. The government agreed. Each airline was reimbursed for losses accrued for THOSE DAYS ONLY. Do you have a problem with that, or would you rather have seen the ENTIRE INDUSTRY file for Chapter 11?

Gordon was the first to step up and have the balls to say what needed to be said. Left to some of you armchair, monday-morning quarterbacks, the whole industry would have gone out of business.



User currently offlineDirkSavage From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2498 times:

As proven by the banks in Japan, sometimes it is best to let businesses fail. Rather then to perpetuate an inefficiant and costly business model.

I do believe at one time there were 45,000 workers in buggy whip manufacturing that were also forced to adapt. Hell, I've been laid off twice and furloughed once. I was just forced to change and find a new job. Instead of standing there with your hand out, why not try some self-empowerment?

BTW, CO was in Chapter 11 for quite some time before the stock was written off and then more (i.e. "new') stock was offered at 16 a share. It immediately went down to 8 and then blasted to 60 plus.

Alpha...........duh, let's think here.....an "airline employee" in Cleveland.............geez, I wonder who you work for? If big Gordo found a way to let me keep my job by screwing others..........well, I'd probably being doing a taste-test on his colon and singing his praises like you are.

Dirk"ex-COAM"Savage



User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2462 times:

Listening to what Bethune has to say about UA is like asking Saddam Hussien about US Middle East Policy. You knw what your going to get and its slanted to serve him better.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13519 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2461 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Agreed, Alpha1!

Far too many talking heads like to blather on about how the airlines were "bailed out" by the government immediately after 9/11, but no one bothers to take note of the fact that it was a government-ordered shutdown that nearly sunk all the airlines to begin with! It was only fair for the government to make them whole on what they'd lost.

Put another way (for anyone who still doesn't quite "get it"), let's say that the government told you that you couldn't go to work for several days. Wouldn't you be a bit ticked off and wanting to get reimbursed for your lost income? This is exactly the same thing. The government, for several days, robbed the airlines of their ability to conduct business. That being said, those airlines were entitled to be made whole on their lost business.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
25 DirkSavage : I'm not really understanding this. If an airline is not allowed to fly thier aircraft for four days................they immediately go into a tail spi
26 EA CO AS : Dirk- I guess what you're missing is that airlines are VERY high-cost businesses to run, and run on profit margins that are, in some cases, less than
27 Artsyman : Oh, I guess that is why we will soon see FedEx, UPS, Southwest, JetBlue, MidWest Ex, etc. standing in the welfare line (after all they could not opera
28 DirkSavage : True about UPS and FedEx. And true, that airlines are a very "equipment entensive" business. Not many other businesses require billions of dollars in
29 STT757 : Before Tilton UAL tried in vein to lure first Bethune and then Greg Brennen to the CEO job at UAL, both declined. UAL had to settle for someone outsid
30 SegmentKing : too bad Gordon's pizza sucks... it's now only personal sized. -n
31 STT757 : Actually the Pizza's still good, you just need to pay for additional toppings.
32 Coronado : Gordon Bethune realized early on that in spite of fortress hubs,etc, the airline business is a Service Business. In ground transportation something si
33 Klwright69 : STT757, EA CO AS, and Alpha 1 are right. Speedport, if UA tried to get Gordon to come aboard to fix them, he's got to have something going for him, wo
34 Klwright69 : I bet you wouldn't see this same level of agitation and hostility toward Gordon if he was running THEIR airline..... If Gordon had accepted UA's offer
35 SegmentKing : if we stop listening, will gordon stop talking? ..... nah.......
36 Alpha 1 : SegmentKing, if you stop bitching, will we really give a rat's ass? .....nah....
37 Artsyman : On Fridays Voicemail, Gordon was actually saying nice things about United, and said that he hoped that they made it out of Chapt 11, and he hopes ever
38 Cloudy : EVERY business which owns or flies airplanes for commercial purposes got some of the federal grant money. This includes WN, Jetblue and the other low-
39 Ual777contrail : I cant wait till bathune gets his ass handed to him, he is a loud mouth jerk. even his own employees think he is an ass. He is not the dean of ceo's,
40 Artsyman : even his own employees think he is an ass. He is not the dean of ceo's, that is like saying he is the "don". He is only the CEO for CO. They are aren'
41 Alpha 1 : I cant wait till bathune gets his ass handed to him, he is a loud mouth jerk. Actually, he's a smart cookie, who tells the God's-honest truth, even if
42 Klwright69 : Alpha_1, good point again as usual. Emirates and Singapore are not close to being the world's largest carriers. Applying the logic displayed by UAL777
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Gordon Bethune Speaks.. posted Thu Sep 14 2006 15:33:40 by STT757
Gordon Bethune Comments On 7E7 And A380 posted Fri Apr 30 2004 21:30:50 by STT757
Gordon Bethune, CLE, DIA, UAL posted Fri Apr 11 2003 04:16:26 by STT757
Gordon Bethune's Interview On CNN posted Sun Oct 28 2001 21:14:30 by Dynkrisolo
Gordon Bethune On The 7E7, Commonality, Seniority posted Wed Aug 6 2003 06:02:01 by STT757
Time Magazine Article On CO And Gordon Bethune posted Wed Jun 5 2002 10:01:30 by LoneStarMike
Gordon Bethune Now Chairman At Aloha posted Thu Aug 31 2006 05:24:07 by Jetdeltamsy
Doug Parker, The Next Gordon Bethune? posted Mon Aug 28 2006 07:11:21 by Ramerinianair
Would Gordon Bethune Run A New CO/UA? posted Sat Aug 12 2006 19:40:37 by Style
Richard Aboulafia Speaks On The A350 posted Tue Jul 18 2006 06:02:44 by N844AA