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KLM And B777  
User currently offlineSndp From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 553 posts, RR: 2
Posted (16 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1438 times:

KLM is a very faithfull Boeing customer. Who thinks they will buy the 777 and which versions? KLM operates 767's, MD-11's and B747-300/-400's on longer routes.

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 11588 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (16 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1210 times:

I expect them substituting their MD11s (by the way no Boeing product when they bought them) with A330/340s, but these MD11s are relatively new so I don´t think they will be in a haste.
1. KLM is European like partner airline Alitalia who is already slowly switching to Airbus.
2. US-Partner Northwest already ordered A330s to follow their aging DC-10s.
3. Their 747 classics (mostly Combis) are either updated with new Cockpits (didn´t read anything about that recently) or beeing substituted gradually by 747-400 Combis.

User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2855 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (16 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1201 times:

I'm sorry, Na, I have to disagree with you on this one. I would expect KLM to order 777-200ERs to replace their MD-11s in about 2-3 years. KLM does not currently operate any Airbus aircraft and although Alitalia does, they are only A320 and A321. They replaced their A300s with 767s, and chose 747-400s to replace their -200s. Northwest ordered their A330s when the program was launched 10 years ago but, have yet to take delivery. Also, KLM ordered 737-800s and -900s when Northwest already had A320s in their fleet. This leads to another question, does anyone know when Northwest will start taking their A330s?

Best Regards,


Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineUAL747-600 From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 640 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (16 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1191 times:

I agree with Hamlet69. KLM currently operates a GE fleet of 747, 767 and MD11. I think it would make more sense to buy a variety of GE powered 777's instead of buying A330/A340. At a minimum, you are adding a new engine manufacturer to your supplier matrix.

User currently offlineDash8 From New Zealand, joined Aug 2005, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (16 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1171 times:

Add to those reasons the fact that it won't make sense to step from the MD-11 to an A330/340.

1. They don't have Combi capability. Some thing MartinAir and KLM look for.

2. The A310 has left a very foul taste in KLM's mouth.
KLM never really liked the A310 operation. It was a
nightmare from the start.

3. As far as take-off weight/payload is concerned it
doesn't make sense for KLM, and%surely not Martinair
to switch to the A330/340 from the MD-11's.
Although th A340-500/600 do have much higher TO
weights, the payload increase over the twin-engine
777 is minimal especially when considering the
superior economics of it.

4. KLM has put trust in twin-engine economics and
ETOPS. By ordering and using 767-300 ER's.
So there is no question that the company is
comfortable with ETOPS anymore.

Also that KLM has become an all Boeing operotor from a mixed operator is a possible reason, which was already mentioned, together with the engines. Also that KLM won't be able to take advantage to one of the very few advantages of an Airbus aircraft. "CCQ". It won't make sense when you own just one type of bus..........


Xander Koote

User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (16 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1141 times:

Theoretically, I would expect KLM to buy the triple7, but not for a while, as them and British Airways both posted losses for 1999. In fact KLM in in the process of rationalizing the operation, and are looking for buyers for some of the corporations non-vital divisions. So the likelihood of KLM buying anything that isn't already on the books is unlikely for the next few years at the minimum. Plus they seem like one of the few companies happy with the MD-11, and don't seem in a rush to rid themselves of them.


« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2855 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (16 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1118 times:

I heard that Kenya Airways was leasing 3 767-300ERs from KLM, which are actually leased from ILFC. Is this because KLM has too much capacity, or are they getting ready to implement a fleet change? Does anyone know?

Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineSndp From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 553 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (16 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1102 times:

This would surprise me. I mean, KLM has not announced to reduce capacity but to reduce capacity growth. Reducing the fleet with 3 767's would mean ,for a not very small but nog very big airline as KLM, they are reducing actual capacity, which they have not announced to do.

User currently offlineEg777er From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 1844 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (16 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1086 times:

I heard a rumour last year that KLM wants 777s for its Gulf routes, among others. KLM are expanding into the Gulf in a big way - they have daily flights to virtually every Gulf city, and the 767-300ERs they use are regularly stuffed full. They would probably go the way of Gulf Air and BA, who have replaced their 767s on the Gulf routes with A330/A340 and 777s respectively.

User currently offlineJet Setter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (16 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1087 times:

KLM is cutting routes and aircraft, trying to return to profit. 1 767-300 has been leased to Kenya Airways (Kenya Airways' 3 767s will be new) 1 737 to Transavia, 2 F70s to Cityhopper and some F50s will be withdrawn permanently.

Long-haul flights to Karachi, Riyadh, Jeddah, Baku and Santiago will stop. Shorthaul routes to London-Gatwick and Basle/Mulhouse will also go.

Just one final point, the only long term loyalty KLM ever showed was to McDonnell Douglas, they operated every jet poduct they produced except the MD-80/90, which was when they chose the 737 in the mid-1980s.

I'd say the order is still open,
People said BA and US Airways wouldn't order the A320, SAS would buy the 737-900 etc... Airlines are businesses, and will oftten just take the cheap option!!!

User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (16 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1091 times:

Will KLM fly new routes if they get these new planes? Any ideas?

User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (16 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1065 times:

As Jet Setter said KLM will be reducing capacity on some routes, that was on their inflight company news two weeks ago. The news also stated that some longhaul planes will be leased out (obviously the 767 as discussed earlier).

I don't expect them to order new planes soon. We can forgot the phasing out of the 742/743 as they are going to get the new glass cockpits. A KLM 747 captain confirmed that.

As for the M11, KL and MP seem to be very happy with them plus the M11 fits well on KLM's routes like AMS-YUL, AMS-YVR, AMS-SFO, AMS-MEM and so on.


Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
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