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Tarom To Join Star Or Sky Team Soon  
User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2458 times:

On December 16, 2002 TAROM's president Alexandru Szlivka at a press conference in Bucharest announced that the Romanian carrier it's in advanced negotiations with Star and Sky Team in its attempt to join one of these major alliances.
Szlivka added that joining a major alliance is part of Tarom's new restructuring plan.


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At the same press conference TAROM also announced that starting with the 2003 summer schedule New York will have 6 weekly flights from 4.


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Photo © Árpád Gordos



Other European summer destinations:
- Paris increase from 9 to 14
- Brussels and Rome daily
- Madrid from 5 to 7


The source of this breaking news is Rompress - Romanian Government News Agency.

My question to you is what Alliance would better suite TAROM or what Alliance would most benefit of TAROM's network ?


19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTimberwolf24 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 575 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

If TAROM does join Star might we see them return to Chicago?


Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2412 times:

Accordingly to a FAA Docket issued by Department of Transportation on February 2002, Tarom have the permission to conduct direct flights (unlimited frequencies) to New York, Chicago and Los Angeles.

In addition to above destinations the same Docket stipulates that Tarom can also serve a total of 30 points (destinations) in the US on a codeshare basis only !

It's possible but I guess it's to early to speculate if the two additional New York bound flights will be extended to Chicago or Los Angeles for that matter.


User currently offlineManuel From Portugal, joined Aug 2004, 1 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2370 times:

What about Oneworld? They don't have a partner in eastern Europe yet, Finnair is only involved in one or two Baltic countries.
If they went to Star just like LOT did some time ago, Star would be dominant in eastern Europe making it difficult for CSA and Oneworld.
I could imagine all alliances should be interested in this well improving carrier.


User currently offlineAirplanetire From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2349 times:

As to which alliance I would rather see Tarom join, see my profile. It tells all. I'll give you a clue though. I like Delta a lot. Anyway, is there room in either alliance for it? Both alliances already have a major eastern European airline in them (CSA for Skyteam, LOT for Star- they did join, right?). Star also has Austrian, which has a strong eastern European presence. Frankly, I'm surprised to see them looking at either of those alliances, but my bet goes to Skyteam. My reasoning with that is not biased. It's just that I think there is more room for them in that alliance as opposed to Star. That reasoning might be unbelievably stupid though, so please tell me if so.  Smile.

User currently offlineBigo747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2336 times:

It seems like Star will be too crowded to accomodate additional Eastern EU member.

You have Austrian, Lufthansa, LOT, SAS serving extensive Eastern European network.

As for Skyteam, it depends on Malev. Malev seems to be swinging between Delta's Skyteam and Northwest/KLM.

If Malev decides choosing Skyteam, eastern europe may also seems to be crowded too.


User currently offlineJrlander From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

I wonder if Star could provide enough connections out of JFK, Tarom's only remaining US gateway. UAL's service is limited. UsAirways (assuming they survive and become part of Star) doesn't have any real presence there. On the other hand, Delta has service to a number of cities (ATL, CVG, ORD, DTW, PHL, PIT, DCA, MCO, FLL, SFO, LAX... etc.)

User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2258 times:

Until a couple of days ago I was deeply convinced that if Tarom will ever be part of a major alliance, than One World would have been the perfect fit. More over just about last year the former Tarom president announced the Romanian media that the airline was very close to sign an interline agreement with American Airlines. For some reason that agreement never materialized.
Sure thing even as we speak One World doesn't have a real East-European partner other than Swiss which let's face it it's a Western European Airline.

In the early 90' Romanian Government initial plan was to render Tarom profitable ASAP and to privatize some 66% of it as an " UNALLIGNED AIR CARRIER" in order to allow the buyer's freedom to decide on the airline future alliances. A very clever and thoughtful idea I would say to make the sale of the airline very attractive to potential investors. Due to the airline cumulative losses no serious offers came trough and so Romanian Government was compelled to postpone any attempt to privatize the company until profitability goal was to be achieved.

Earlier this year Tarom openly admitted that its long-haul operation to New York and Beijing accounted for about US $ 22 Million out of its total loss for the year of US $ 27 million. It is very clear that in order to achieve an overall profitability Tarom needs to enter now a major Alliance that will provide them with an American partner as well.

LOT and CSA are the living prove that being part of an alliance can help your Balance Sheet considerably.

Jrlander & Airplanetire

I personally share your opinion that Delta appears to be the ideal American partner for Tarom.

Bigo747

Malev it's clearly hooked on the Wings, already codesharing with KLM, NW, Continental


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8897 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 2232 times:

Yes, Malev is in with KL/NW/CO, but keep in mind that they too might be joining SkyTeam. The picture should clear up within the next 5 days, when the DOT must rule on the alliance.

Jeff


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 2203 times:

Delta used to have a codeshare with Malev, and it was assumed that Malev would become one of the first airlines to be extended an invitation to SkyTeam when the alliance was first expanding. That slot went to CSA, and Malev was left out in the cold. If the DL/NW/CO alliance is approved by the DOT, look to see Skyteam to really grow very fast. Will Aeroflot ever join Skyteam, because they have made numerous improvements in order to join, but no agreement has been made yet. If a decision is made on Aeroflot, Tarom and Malev could be left out of Skyteam.

User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4976 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

Will TAROM still cancel their JFK-OTP flights as planned? I remember reading this a few back..

Mark


User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2172 times:

Very true story, a couple of months ago Tarom was contemplating seriously to put an end to the bleeding by suspending its last two remaining long-haul routes namely New York and Beijing and put up for sale their two A 310-324 aircraft. It appears now that shortly after that contingency plan broke free in the media some good news finally came trough for Tarom (an alliance invitation ?!)

I would go as far as saying that their long-haul route to US could have been the sticking point in their earlier negotiation with AA and BA. At one point I remember reading about Romanian Government talking about their intention to transfer the OTP-JFK to a foreign airline !!!
That idea was short lived and didn't really fly trough Romanian Parliament.

Why is Tarom increases its flights to New York from 4 to 6 starting in the 2003 summer schedule?
Perhaps they already secured at least a codeshare agreement for the time being with another American partner beyond JFK..

As far as Sky Team preferences for Aeroflot, Malev or Tarom I wouldn't be concerned. I think it's enough room for all three airlines to be part of the same alliance although I doubt that's going to happen.

For decades Tarom's traditional market was the Middle East, Gulf States, North Africa, India, Pakistan, Singapore, China. I think their experience on those markets could be an asset for an Alliance that seeks a bigger presence in those regions.

On the other hand let's not forget that Lufthansa Consulting is assisting Tarom with its restructuring plans since the 90's ! So I wouldn't rule out Star's interest in Tarom.











User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4976 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2132 times:

No chance of seeing Tarom in Montreal again eh?

Mark


User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (11 years 8 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2092 times:

Mark

I think it all depends on what Alliance Tarom is going to be part of.

To speculate a bit . . . if Star will accept their application I think there is a good opportunity for Air Canada to fly one of their 767-200 at least three times a week the Montreal - Bucharest route! That could very well serve the whole Eastern European community residing in Montreal/Canada and also offer convenient connection flights with Tarom from Bucharest to Middle East, North Africa, Asia.

Other wise with only two A310-324 in their fleet I personally don't see Tarom being able to serve the above route in the near future. Tarom's current President said that a decision on adding two new wide body jets to the fleet will be announced sometimes next year although it's not clear yet if they will will try to remarket, trade, or refurbish their existent A 310-324.

Anyhow the two new wide body jets are scheduled to enter Tarom's fleet by 2006. Also by April next year two new NG B737-700 are scheduled to be delivered by Boeing while 3 ATR-500 are currently on wet lease with Egypt Air for at least 6 months.


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4976 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (11 years 8 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2088 times:

Why did Tarom even leave? Did they have any success? They abandoned CHicago in favor of Montreal at one point!

In terms of AC and eastern Europe, it has Austrian to VIE.. and thats good enough for them!

Mark


User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (11 years 8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2053 times:

As you very well know Mark, Montreal was a traditional destination for many years and I am sure that pulling out of Dorval wasn't an easy decision for Tarom. Same situation with O'Hare. More over, it wasn't much to see them out of New-York as well. Very close call I should say!

Was Tarom ever successful in operating those flights? The answer is absolutely not. Losses in the tens of million dollars range every year!
Reason ? It's hard to sell tickets beyond Montreal, Chicago or New York when you don’t have a codeshare partner in Canada and United States.

As you know travelers from say …LAX - OTP always will try to book and fly a single or partner airlines for obvious reason: cheaper airfares + frequent flyer points redeemable on each partner. The more partners the more destinations you can spend your redeemable points for either business or leisure.

Is that simple you don't sell tickets beyond your gateways YOU DON'T MAKE A PROFIT.
Now, just imagine how much profit Air Canada would make beyond Frankfurt or Vienna without help coming from their fellow European Star Alliance members.

Pretty sure that one or more members in Star can't hurt anyone !

And one more thing Tarom and Austrian are codesharing on flights from VIE - TSR/OTP/CLJ.
So if you are currently booking a flight from Montreal to Bucharest via Vienna on Air Canada, you might end up in a Tarom B737 aircraft for the last portion of your flight !



User currently offlineShamrock104 From Ireland, joined Sep 2000, 523 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (11 years 8 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2028 times:


Well, if Tarom's flight from Dubai to Bucharest on a 737-300 had a total load factor of 11 with the crew overnighting 2 weeks ago i am suprised if they can make a profit! Great airline all the same though. I hope Tarom find their most suitable partner soon.


User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1993 times:

I would agree with you Shamrock104, eleven passengers in a B 737-300 it's a poor load indeed.

Even though Tarom managed to put together a gorgeous (price wise) all inclusive Dubai 6,7,8 days tour packages - http://www.tarom.ro/services/tours/dubai.htm - without an adequate and active promotional campaign across European and North American media, their efforts will be deemed once again worthless. It's definitely not enough to advertise your great deals in a rather dull and colorless web side that primarily lacks an online reservation engine!
The cheap policy of laying back and waiting for customers to eventually enter your shop is not going to work. You got to get up, go outside and invite them in. Certainly that's another area where Tarom badly needs some help and perhaps the guidance of an Alliance will be more than welcome.

Oh well, at least I'm happy for the comfort of those 11 passengers from DUB. I'm sure that they didn't have any hassle in clearing rather quickly all security checks and that Tarom flight was taking off on time for OTP. Not mentioning the pampering . . . Big grin




User currently offlineUK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2593 posts, RR: 30
Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1964 times:

Since LOT are to join Star Alliance, will they be forced to end their strong codesharing relationship with BA? Maybe they will become partners in the same way with bmi????

User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (11 years 8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1926 times:

LOT already announced at the end of November that their code-share agreement with British Airways will come to an end March 30, 2003.
Reason? The two airlines are going to be part of different alliances competing one against each other!

More over January 1, 2003 LOT is joining Star's Miles & More frequent flyer program and so trough that they will become partner with British Midland.

For now LOT signed a MOU with Lufthansa and a codeshare agreement with Austrian.

My prediction? LOT and bmi to sign a codeshare agreement on or before March 30, 2003.


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