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Airbus Answer To New Boeing "787",  
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5207 times:

Boeings new aircraft will be "look like the current 767 and 777, seating 250 passengers, with a range of about 7,500 miles, but with more advanced engines "..

well 7500 miles is a bit far I think but ..

Likely Airbus will not be happy to see all A300/310 aircraft being replaced by the new Boeing Aircraft ...

IMO they have an advantage over Boeing in having already the right body, the 330/340 hull, and modern cockpit/avionics that can be copied from 345/6 ..

However the successful 330-200 seems not suited for shorter range high density services now dominated by B757, A300, A310, B762.

What will Airbus do ?

My guess is a new wing optimized for short/medium haul 330-100 and a launch date 2 yrs before the new Boeing (that is 2006 ?).

This will likely become an A vs B race against the clock ... there's too much at stake here, also for Airbus (much, much bigger market then A380 ..)


28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5164 times:

Please post a link for your source on this new 787. I don't remember hearing anything about this.

User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5158 times:

Yeah, please want send me a link of the news about B787, OK? I want to please send me a link with the picture of the new aircraft of B787 for me, please? Well, thanks for the cooperation with me!  Smile

User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5117 times:

Jesus, you two. Where have you been? Boeing are contemplating a 767 replacement to the specs described above. It'll be the 787, most likely.

 Insane


User currently offlineYyzcabincrew From United Arab Emirates, joined Apr 2002, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5112 times:

The new BOEING Aircraft does NOT have a name yet.....Boeing is calling it "MIDDLE OF THE MARKET" . http://www.boeing.com/news/breakingnews/2002/021220g.html

User currently offlineBigo747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5105 times:

Are you referring to B777-250ERX?

User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5079 times:

No........

User currently offlineHmmmm... From Canada, joined May 1999, 2104 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5064 times:

I made the same mistake with Scotty. I understand that he's deaf. That explains is unique style.

777236er, please refrain from using JESUS as a curse. That is very offensive.

So let's have that link.



An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5053 times:

What link?! Project Yellowstone has been on the cards for a long time, and there have been more and more talk of a super-efficient 767 replacement in the works coming out of Chicago.

777236er, please refrain from using JESUS as a curse. That is very offensive.

 Insane


User currently offlineBizJets From France, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5028 times:


ScottysAir:

umm, what sorta jibberish or langauge is that you wrote in? I think you stated you wanted the 787 link 3 or 4 times in a single sentence. Weird



ScottysAir speaks ASL, American Sign Language. Its not jibberish either. Have a little respect.


User currently offlineSv11 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5022 times:

If you listen to the video at the above link, Boeing is focusing on a conventional 250 seat aircraft with 777's range and 20 % better seat-mile costs. The estimate of this market is 2000-3000 airplanes. Most likely a twin with launch in 2004. Hope this plane can carry two LD-3 containers side by size. They are also looking at 737-900X with 200 passenger capacity.
I think eventually you will see 737 family covering 100-200 seats, this new plane 200-300 seats and 777 300-400 seats with 747,757 and 777 retired.

sv11


User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4998 times:

777236er, please refrain from using JESUS as a curse. That is very offensive.

Only if you want it to be.




Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1768 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4978 times:

haven't you guys heard? Boeing is scrapping the Sonic Cruiser and is going with this a/c.

User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4950 times:

Come on, All of you guys!!! I am not a deaf for me either and I am hard of the hearing for me. OK? Please gimme me a break for the thread. I want to listen explain to know exactly want something news. Well, talk ya later!!

User currently offlineFlyboyOz From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 1985 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4878 times:

ScottysAir..don't worry about other people (some people don't know that you're hard of hearing)...I'm hearing impairment and I also have a problem with the english grammar so therefore it's hard for everyone to understand and read my writing. I'm afraid that i don't want to offend you...Please don't repeat so many verbs and keep the sentence SHORT!!

Guys..please try to understand and respect our hearing-impaired languages. I cannot hear the words from other people so that is why it doesn't help me to improve my language skill!! For example, when hearing people talk to me and I have no idea what they are talking about and lipreading doesn't helpful! I've been trying soooo hard to remember all the gammar rules but it's impossible.

Thank you



The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
User currently offlineSleekjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2046 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4858 times:

Hats off to Scotty and Flyboy. You guys inspire us all. And, hats off to those who dare to express offense when others misuse the name of Jesus. I'm right there with you.


II Cor. 4:17-18
User currently offlineBizJets From France, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4859 times:

I apologize, I thought you had said in a previous post you spoke ASL. In either case, neither of it is jibberish. All it takes is a little bit of effort on our part, and a little less criticism.


User currently offlineSinlock From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1637 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4821 times:

"Likely Airbus will not be happy to see all A300/310 aircraft being replaced by the new Boeing Aircraft ..."
"IMO they have an advantage over Boeing in having already the right body, the 330/340 hull, and modern cockpit/avionics that can be copied from 345/6 .."
"However the successful 330-200 seems not suited for shorter range high density services now dominated by B757, A300, A310, B762."
"What will Airbus do ?"
"My guess is a new wing optimized for short/medium haul 330-100 and a launch date 2 yrs before the new Boeing (that is 2006 ?). "
"This will likely become an A vs B race against the clock ... there's too much at stake here, also for Airbus (much, much bigger market then A380 ..) "


I would think that Beancounters at the EU banks and Airbus would have a hard time finding the cash, that would be needed to pull off a A-331. The A-380 is going to cost around $8 billion most of it is credit.
Airbus dosen't have much cash comeing in. The "EasyJet" order will hurt whatever profit the 32X line makes, and who knows when the A-380 line will bring in a profit (2010)?
So even if Airbus were going to launch a new aircraft, i doubt it would be in a 2006 time line. More like 2010 IF ever.



My Country can beat up your Country....
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4717 times:

I would think that Beancounters at the EU banks and Airbus would have a hard time finding the cash, that would be needed to pull off a A-331. The A-380 is going to cost around $8 billion most of it is credit.

Airbus will just get more interest-free 'loans' without a refund period in the contract from the EU.
And please don't turn this into another A-B war, as that's a fact of life. Airbus always gets extremely friendly government loans whenever they need money.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineShamrock_747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4646 times:

Sooner or later Airbus will build a new aircraft aimed at replacing the A300/A310/767. I think the best solution would be to use the current A300/A310 design, but give it a new flight deck, avionics and engines (such as RR Trents).

Shamrock_747


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4584 times:

In my opinion Airbus won't have a problem getting the money for a new high capacity medium range 200/250 seater.

Their investment won't be as high as Boeings, they've the body-cockpit etc ...
Only a shorter, bigger and lighter wing will do.

Looking at the market potential for such an aircraft and the financial success of the A320 and A330 series, banks won't hesitate financing the $ 0.7- 1 billion (?) investment required .....

Boeing is a different story .. They need a lot more to invest ($3 billion ?) and I wonder if banks will come up with that, specially when Airbus has announced a similar lower risk project.

I wouldn't be surprised if somehow the US government "intervenes" for long term strategic reasons. (They did so in 1957/1965 buying 800 707/KC135's ..., these need to be replaced in the next 10 yrs ..)


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4555 times:

Airbus has stated repeatedly it would be 10 years before an aircraft in this size range is possible.

That being said, I think an A300/A310 with a new wing, engines, cockpit, and FBW would be very successful. I don't know what the investment required would be.

Certainly less than Boeing's, which would almost have to incorporate a new fuselage as well.

Heh I was thinking about an A300-600R with Trent 500s today, actually.


N

Those who don't think the US "intervenes" on a constant basis are crazy.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4526 times:

Airbus has stated repeatedly it would be 10 years before an aircraft in this size range is possible.

Boeing was fully commited to the SC until yesterday... Company's like this will always honestly communicate one direction until the opposite is proved/decided.

As said before I think neither can/will ignore this market.

While preparing for this big battle they send out conflicting info to mislead or disencourage the other party's.

I think Sonic Cruiser can be seen as a decoy ... "787" is probably well on track and the announced "2008" and "2010" can be seen in this light ...


User currently offlineBuckfifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4468 times:

That's a rather expensive decoy for Boeing in PR terms. Along with the multitude of 747 variants they've been putting out in the past 18 months, I'd say they're a bit confused at this juncture in time...

User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4276 times:

Surfing around the on a A330-100 google search indicates Airbus has been considering this for at least 3 yrs. Investment should be less then $1 bill and time to market 3/5 yrs ...

Airbus has been waiting for the right moment. The latest Boeing decision could spark a decision.

Boeing probably will be studying all options to prevent/delay such a Airbus decision...


25 Post contains images Klaus : Airbus had already announced a few months ago that they´ll counter any such move by Boeing with a matching product (big surprise there ).
26 Gigneil : I fear that an A330-100 would be far too heavy. I didn't mean 10 years for either manufacturer, I meant 10 years for Airbus. N
27 Hmmmm... : I don't think that Boeing was committed to the SC at any point. It was just an idea they were toying with. Both manufacturers maintain new design depa
28 Post contains links Keesje : Pentagon Postpones 767 Tanker Lease Decision Until Next Year -- http://library.northernlight.com/FE20021220940000110.html?cb=0&dx=1006&sc=0#doc It's a
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