Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
How Close Were Eastern 401, And Valujet 592  
User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (13 years 5 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9041 times:

Well, It seems they both crashed in the everglades, and we all know that, but how close are the 2 crash sites. Does anyone have a map or do they know how many miles/feet ETC. They were apart.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Robert M. Campbell
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mark Bess

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (13 years 5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9006 times:

A good question. I went to Air Disaster.com, and came up with no precise answers. Just Everglades Nat'l Park is all it said on both 401 & 592. Since I've never been to the Everglades, I have no idea how big the area is. Hope someone here knows. Regards.

"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineFlairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8995 times:

Everglades National Park is huge.... it runs from US 41 south to the water and from SR 997 west to Everglades City... if u have a map, and you can locate those major routes and the city, you'll see how huge it is!

User currently offlineDC-10 Levo From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 3432 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (13 years 5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8974 times:

That's true what Flairport said.
I've been to Florida three times and we have never been to the everglades, but when you look on the close up maps of Florida, it is massive!


User currently offlineBroke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1325 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (13 years 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8961 times:

Flight 401 went down about 10 miles west of MIA.
Flight 592 went down about 7 miles northwest of MIA.
Not very close.
Basically, everything south of Lake Okachobee, west of the towns along the east coast (the Palm Beaches to Homestead) and east of the towns on the west coast (Naples, Fort Myers) all the way to the tip of the peninsula encompasses the Everglades National Park.

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 15347 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (13 years 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8956 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

This site has an in-depth article about EA 401, covering aircraft N310EA's history, the crew, and excellent photos of both.


Within the article is a detailed NTSB map showing the location of the crash site and debris field.


The precise location of the crash site is detailed in this excerpt:

"The airplane crashed at 25 degrees, 51 minutes and 53 seconds north latitude and 80 degrees, 35 minutes, 43 seconds west longitude. The location was west-northwest of Miami, 18.7 miles from the end of runway Nine Left. The elevation was 8 feet above sea level in the Everglades. The terrain was flat marshland on which saw grass grew to heights of three to ten feet high in six to 12 inches of water."


As far as Critter 591 is concerned, I don't have any information about that crash site's precise location.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 45
Reply 6, posted (13 years 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8965 times:

Has anyone heard any of these stories before? I thought this was a good time to post this. Enjoy.

The ghosts of TriStar 318

You would not expect to encounter a ghost on an airplane, but that is exactly what happened to a senior stewardess working aboard Eastern Airlines Tri-Star 318! Fay Merryweather was working in the galley of the airliner when she began to feel uneasy, as if someone was watching her, her eyes looked in the direction of the oven and she was startled to see the reflection of a face staring at her from the glass oven door! The mouth of the strange apparition was moving as if trying to talk to her, but Fay could hear no sound, alarmed, but not afraid, she walked back to the flight deck and told the flight engineer what she had seen. The officer knew Fay as an experienced flight attendant and not the type of person prone to seeing things, so he followed her back to the galley, expecting to see nothing, he was astonished to find the strange face was still visible, reflected in the glass of the oven door, not only that, but he recognized it! It was the face of Don Repo, a former colleague who had been killed in an air crash of another TriStar in the Florida Everglades, 12 months earlier. As they both looked at the image in a state of misbelieve, they both suddenly heard a voice whisper "Beware, Beware, fire in the jet!" Thankfully though there was no fire aboard the jet and it safely completed its journey.

An investigation into the reported sighting of the ghost, noted that the galley on the TriStar , was from the crashed Everglades jet! It had been salvaged from the crash site and refitted to Tri Star 318.

The warning of fire, from the ghost of Don Repo did come true. Three month after the warning, The jet was making a routine test flight, when one of the engines burst into flames! Only the professionalism of the crew managed to save and land the stricken jet.

On another flight a senior Eastern Airlines executive was traveling on Tri Star 318, which was returning to it home base in Florida, sitting next to him was an off duty pilot, a short while into the flight both men started talking to each other, the executive turned to have a good look at his fellow traveler and was shocked to find he was sitting next to Captain Loft, the dead pilot of the crashed everglades jet! The executive gave off a frightened scream, a stewardess came rushing over to find him in a state of shock, his ghostly flight companion had meanwhile vanished.

A short while later on another flight, a stewardess noticed a pilot in uniform sitting in the 1st class cabin, she approached him and asked him why he did not appear to be on the flight list, he wouldn't answer her, so she went to see the captain who accompanied her back to the 1st class cabin, he immediately recognized the strange pilot, as the dead Captain Loft! Who immediately disappeared in front of them!

The ghosts of both of the dead flight crew were reported being seen on other flights and the airline eventually had the aircraft exorcised, after that there were no more sightings, so hopefully, both the souls of the dead men have found lasting peace.

Although the crash of this plane happened in the Everglades, the ghosts of the two pilots haunt different locations. Their spirits have been seen on numerous other planes that are using parts salvaged from the wreck.

. . Flight 401 . .
Runway Library
Lights flashing everywhere, just not the ones on your Runway tonight

Being There
from Jim Dunn
Hailing From: Miami Lakes
Where it Happened: At the Airport
Note: This story has been updated on December 16, 2000 (scroll down to read new additions)

I worked in recurrent training at an office called "Crew Scheduling" for Eastern Airlines. My name is Jim Dunn. In the past I had managed hijacking situations and emergencies which were part of the job. Usually everything happens on the weekends and in the middle of the night when upper management is at home and not answering their phones. It's par for the course.

The night 401 went down I was working late because I had reserved computer time with the main frame in Charlotte, NC. It was the only time I could run this program which ate up a lot of time, etc. Other than that, I would have not been there.

I rode in on the bus with Dee Dee Welch. She was a gate agent whom I helped get a job with Eastern. I used my limited contacts in personnel and got her to first base and she did the rest. She used to work in the liquor store at the terminal. Dee Dee was an attractive girl with jet black hair. Her maiden name was Stratos and she was of Greek dissent. She was divorced from her first husband at the time. We sat together on the bus from the parking lot. She of course asked me why I was working late and I told her. When I got off the bus I said in a normal fashion, "maybe I will see you later." I had no idea at that time I would see her again that evening.

I was working alone in my office on the computer when one of my check pilots came in and related to me that he had seen an explosion out over the everglades near the training airport, which is about 20 miles out Tamiami Trail. He told me that the tower asked him to divert from his touch and go landings which they were doing out there on an Electra L-1888 aircraft. It was a 4 engine propeller plane.

He did a fly over the site and reported that he could not see anything. It was pitch black that night and from the sky the glades appear just black. He had completed the check flight and came in to tell me about what happened out there. He had been listening to the chatter from flight 401 to the Miami Tower for some time. We had been having a problem with the indicator lights on the plane. Lockheed had an engineer on board and he and Don Repo were down in the front wheel well section of the Lockheed L-1011.

I knew when he said he feared it was 401, I knew right away that was exactly the plane it had to be. Dee Dee had called me to check on the status of the aircraft from the gate which she was working. The screen just said "Ask Agent." Well that was up on the screen while they were circling out over the glades checking on the indicator light problem with the front nose gear.

I began to get calls from all over the airport. We had a lot of people who worked for Eastern who were qualified to assist in emergency medical situations. I told everyone who called to assemble in front of Medical on 36st with all the medical stuff they could lay their hands on ASAP and form a convoy to go out to crash site. Eastern Security was in the lead car and in radio contact with me. Once this was in motion I turned my attention to Dee Dee's situation at the gate.

I had called the tower where I knew several people. I was told 401 was missing. I said, "Hello!! They are not missing, they have crashed!"

I asked them what they are doing about the people who were waiting for the plane to arrive. He said that they were working on a team to go down to the end of the finger and break the news to them.

Just then my other line rang. It was Dee Dee. She was all alone down there at the gate. I told her to leave her position now and call me from another phone secure and away from the passengers. She listened to me and did what I asked. I told her what had happened and that the tower was feeding her false information. I told her not to return to her position as it would not be safe. She was to wait for me to come. I was right. Someone had phoned and it was already on the news about the crash of 401. He had put down the pay phone and in a rage of disbelief yelled out, "They have lying to us! The flight has crashed in the everglades!" I had joined up with the hastily assembled crisis team and we were all jogging up on this scene when we heard the distressed man yelling.

Next thing I knew we saw a wide range of emotions. Most sat right where they were and began sobbing. Others were information people who wanted answers and wanted the truth now. There were only about 10 of us and I was not in a uniform. I did not wear one for my job --- which was not with the public.

I took the Microphone and announced what we knew. I lied and said that there early reports that there were survivors. I had no way of knowing that there were at the time. It seem to calm the crowd and they must of thought I was an important person and not a gate agent as I was not dressed like them. I outlined the events of the next few hours. I asked them to follow the agents to the first class lounge. I told them that rescue crews were en route to the scene along with U.S. Coast Guard Helicopters, etc. It was routine for this to happen in a crash.

I was glad Dee Dee did not have to face those people alone. I would estimate there were at least 100 people there waiting for someone from flight 401. Not all of them were nice given the misinformation that had been fed for some time now.

I returned to my office to monitor events. I was asked by the FAA to have the complete files on the crew ready for pickup ASAP. I told them that the office was behind on its filing and that it would take some time to prepare the personnel files which were kept in the base chief pilots office. It was true that the filing was six months behind.

I went to the chief pilots office and of course it was locked up tight. I found a ladder and removed a ceiling tile right in front of the door. I then used the door frame to support my weight and removed another on the inside of the door and dropped down and unlocked the door. I replaced the ceiling tiles and returned the ladder. With that over with I locked the door and and began to pull their files. I would remove all of the bad things from the files. Letters about not paying child support --- writing bad checks -- incidents down line at bars, etc. The press would have a field day with this stuff so I eliminated it with a shredder. The FAA would later comment to me that these were the cleanest files they had ever seen. I knew them all so nothing was said further. All the men were good loyal pilots with families.

While working on the files --- the lead car in the convoy I had sent out to the crash site called. He told me that there was a State trooper who was under orders not to let any Eastern Personnel at the crash scene. At this point I already knew their were survivors from the first on scene early response Coast Guards Chopper. It was that chopper pilot who radioed for the big machines to be mobilized. It was the middle of the night and things take a little while to happen. People have to be woke up and told to get their body in gear and get to the airport -- or whatever.

I told him to put the radio so that the trooper could hear. I said, "Listen close, for I will only say this once. My people are the first medical crews on the scene and I'm ordering them to drive by you and push your car off the levy if they have to. You will have to shoot them to stop them. Do you understand!!"

He said, "Yes," and asked me my name. I said, "Jim Dunn." With that the trooper moved his car and our convoy would go on to save countless lives which would have been lost.

It would be talked about for a long time -- what I told the trooper and the convoy to do. The papers would say the Eastern Medical Personnel disregarded the FAA and assisted at the crash scene. The convoy security man asked me later. How did you know he would back down. I told him, "I said to the trooper what he wanted to hear." I knew and he knew it was a stupid order not to let the medical team in. He was off the hook once I forced his hand. He knew he would not shoot anyone that night. Well how did you know I would push his car off the levy? I was just being forceful on the radio with the trooper. Remember, I said what he wanted to hear. You could have said it but you did not. It was your call to call me for direction. In the same manner as the trooper you were looking for someone else to make the call. It's human nature.



I was asked to participate in the investigation because I knew all of the crew members involved and I was there the night of the tragedy.

The scene was somber. Present were check pilots, mechanics, myself and representatives of management. The chief pilot for the Miami base conducted the meeting. In essence we were all given a yellow pad. We would sit and listen to the flight recorder of the voices of the crew as they were managing the inspection of the nose wheel landing gear.

The "Hell Hole," was open and the sound of rushing air was the loudest noise. We had to struggle to hear every word and identify every noise we heard. We played the tape back over and over again. Our objective was to be able to reinact every move the flight deck crew did in order to reconstruct the cause of the accident. It took us about four days to identify every noise we heard.

All our listening boiled down to one click. It would seem I believe Captain Loft got out of his seat to see if he could look down the hell hole and ask them what their status was. I had the distinct feeling that everyone wanted to get in to the act instead of focusing on flying the aircraft while Don Repo and the Lockheed Engineer worked on the problem. The reason the Lockheed Representative was on board is because several crews had experienced a problem with this aircraft regarding an improper signal as to whether (or not) the nose gear was locked down for landing.

The "Hell Hole" is a hatch which is between the Captain and the First Officer just behind the center console. When the hatch is open you have to be careful not to fall in to the hole. The Captain Bob Loft was every bit 6 feet tall or more. When he got out of his seat he had to extend his right foot over the engine throttle levers and then follow over with his left foot. In this process he accidentally touched the controls with his foot and disengaged the auto pilot. It is kind of like speed control on a car. Just a light touch and the cruise control is off. It was that click that we heard but we were not sure if that was the sound.

We sent up a test crew in a L1011 and they did everything the flight crew did including disengaging the auto pilot. We compared the tapes and they matched sound for sound. The plane just slowly circled and lost altitude little by little. No one was watching the instruments. It is pitch black over the everglades and you would not see any lights below you as there is only swamp in the area they were circling.

I personally was on a flight sitting in the jump seat of a L-188 Lockheed Electra on an approach to Raleigh, North Carolina. The visibility with the ground was zero. We were on final approach using instruments. We could not see the runway or the ground.

I was keeping my mouth shut and not saying a word as I watched the altimeter wind down 100 feet at a time as we descended.

I was looking for something out the window and listening to approach control. The Captain said out loud "keep a sharp eye out." I looked over at the first officer and the engineer and they were looking up in to the sky like they were looking for air traffic. I look at the altimeter and it was below 1000 feet and dropping fast.

I said to the Captain, "What are we looking for?"

He was puzzled by my question. He looked over at his crew who was looking everywhere but for the runway.

He said, "Stop looking in the sky for traffic, it's the runway lights we are looking for!"

Just as he said that we dropped out under the clouds at about 500 feet and the runway was dead ahead of us. Thank God for instruments and a Captain that knew what he was doing.

The crew of the L-1011 was one to the first to go through flight training on the aircraft. The plane was still new to everyone. Just like the incident above I am sure Stockstill thought the Captain was watching the instruments and he thought that Stockstill was watching them. All of their attention was focused on the activity taking place down the hatch where Don Repo and the Lockheed Engineer were.

In life we sometimes get a second chance and learn from our mistakes. Here all we could do is find out what happened and make sure it never would happen again. The crew was one of our best and most experienced crews but they made a mistake in trusting the auto pilot to fly the aircraft at such a low altitude.

In the upcoming segment I will tell you about Felix Green. Also about ghost appearing on aircraft. Curious as it may sound most all incidents happened while I was on duty. Strange ! I met with John Fuller on his say 50 foot boat docked at a marina in Sarasota. John had heard about me and found out where I was somehow. I had quit Eastern in about a year after the crash. The crew members were all known to me and I helped coordinate their initial flight trainng on this aircraft.

Got to run now. Scroll down past the "PS" (below) to see my next installment!

-- Jim Dunn

PS - Here is one heckuva coincidence: As you know, Bob Loft was the Captain. I would leave Miami and move to North Carolina a year after the crash. After nearly 8 years away from Miami I would find myself living in Miami Lakes. It was over a year before I found out that my neighbor living in the condo across from me --- was Mrs. Loft. She was a dear and had put her life back together. I moved away without ever telling her of my role in the ghost of flight 401.


Okay, Felix is not in the book, nevertheless he was definitely an Eastern Pilot. He was one of our so-called "bad boys." He was married several times and his ex-wives were always calling the office looking for him. Felix liked a lot of things that were just this side of the wilder side, etc. etc. Anyways, Felix had bright red hair and you always knew he was in a room with his loud voice. We liked Felix. He was "one of the guys." He came in to my office after he was part of a crew that refused to fly on one of the aircrafts where a ghost had been seen.

And now for the good part -- Felix was the one who saw Bob Loft, the captain of the doomed Flight 401 -- and he not only saw him, but he spoke to him in person after Bob had crossed over.

Bob appeared right next to him in a seat in the first class section. Felix told me he appeared in the flesh, in uniform and he was speaking clearly. He told Felix about something that was going to happen to the aircraft they were in and that they should land the plane and get it fixed. Bob then disappeared. Felix was on duty and had not taken a drink, so I knew that what he was telling me was accurate. And so, whatever was wrong with that particular plane on that particular day, it was discovered and needed fixing just like Bob Loft said it would -- and as a result, the crew refused to fly in that aircraft again -- not one more foot!

By this time we had become used to these ghost sightings and we knew that swapping crews did not work because the other crew would tell them why they walked off and once that information had been exchanged, the new crew would refuse also. So we would call in a special crew of mechanics to give the aircraft a complete system check. Next step was to make any repairs needed and then to use check pilots (management) to test fly the plane.

Why did the crew believe Felix?

Two reasons --- the stewardesses also saw Bob Loft talking to Felix --- but the real reason was Felix's hair had turned snow white.

Felix told me that he never believed that there was a life after this one. He said his wild way of living was based on the fact that he would not have to answer for the wrongs he had done. Now here is Bob Loft sitting next to him and Bob is dead. It totally blew Felix's mind and he changed his life forever.

Now, I believed him also. I had been hearing these stories first hand as the events were unfolding. I had replaced enough crews in the course of a year to know that these sightings were for real.

=`=={((@ In this next segment I will talk about the very first incident in Mexico City. @))}==`=

Ghosts: Seeing is Believing!
(This story also appears on Ghostories.com)

Seeing a ghost is not like in the movies. The ghost I saw was in flesh was just like the ghosts the various crew members and passengers had seen and described to me while they were traveling on the assorted aircraft they appeared on.

I was a real estate salesman in North Carolina after I left Eastern Airlines. I was listing and old black american church for sale. The property was of the only value. The old church was still standing. You could see through the sides of the building and all the glass in the windows was broken out. White tattered curtains hung over the windows and were blowing in the summer breeze.

I was waiting for the person who represented the property to show up. I was 30 minutes early. I was out in the middle of no-whereville. The church still had pews intact and in good condition if you consider that they had been open to the elements for several years since the congregation dissolved. I was sitting in one of the pews when all of a sudden there was a hello. I turned and saw this old black man dressed in overalls. He was a rather large fellow -- I would say about 250 lbs. and 6 feet tall. His voice was friendly and calming. He knew I was there about the church.

He introduced himself as Alex Hamilton and told me he was the caretaker of the church and the old cemetery. He told me about the families who built the church and how they have all died and the children had moved away. He was quite sad as he talked about the children who were baptized and the weddings and funerals which took place at the church. While he was talking I was looking outside to see if he drove up in a car or truck --- as I would have heard it coming from a mile off. There was none.

Next thing I did hear and see a car off in the distance. I turned back to tell Alex that the owner was on his way but he was gone. Soon in the door came the property manager for the church. He was a descendant of one of the families who help build the church. I mentioned meeting the caretaker Alex and he, being a black american, --- went pale. I noticed his change in demeanor and he told me that Alex had been dead for about ten years and the man I was talking to was his ghost.

I was taken back but he walked me out to the cemetery and showed me his headstone. It read "Alex Hamilton, A Friend to us All."

Indeed he was still there watching over all of them. I never sold the property as the Sharron-Harris Nuclear Power Plant changed its mind and went to cooling towers. The early plan would have made the church property -- lakefront property if they had ever made the large lake they needed.

The power plant under construction would lose its financing and not be built for another 10 years. I'm sure the church still stands as this place would need 100 years for development to ever reach it. Alex probably still walks the property and greets anyone who happens by the church. He was a friend to everyone.

Rushing to Stay Alive
by Arthur Shelmandine
Hailing From: New York City
Where it Happened: To the Airport

I was in New York visiting my girlfriend. My Dad was a Eastern Airlines employee and I had a C-4 Pass. Flight 401 was to have been my first L-1011 flight and was looking forward to service in first class.

Anyone will tell you I always cut it close on appointments, usually on the late rather than early side.

I flew down the Hutchinson River Parkway in my girlfriends car to make the flight. I ran through the old EAL Terminal at JFK and checked to see what gate 401 was departing from, and I ran down the concourse only to see it push back from the gate.

Since then I've flown quite a bit, 8-10 times a year, and Flight 401 is the only one I ever missed in the almost 30 years since it happened.

User currently offlineCody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1963 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8812 times:


Right after 592 crashed, I was standing in a check out line and noticed one of those "Enquirer" type tabloids with a headline talking about how 592's crash site, 401's crash site, and a site where about 190 Seminole Indians were massacred formed a perfect triangle. According to the legend, when the Seminoles were killed a curse was put on the land that within a certain amount of time (I forget how long it was), the Everglades would claim the exact same amount of people that were in the Seminole tribe. I am ashamed to say I bought it (I was bored and had a long drive ahead), and even though I don't believe it myself, it made for an interesting read. It even had a detailed map showing the coordinates. It did form an eerie triangle. Anyway I think I still have it so I will dig it out. Tell you what, when I find it I will mail it to you. I have seen the 401 crash site and it is all grown up now with saw grass. You cannot tell anything happened.

User currently offlineMika From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 2926 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8765 times:


That story about EA401 was a very interesting read i must say. It quit working when i was about to read the "impact" page though. I guess it'll start working soon again, it isn't the first time a geocities page is unavialable.

Thanks for the link!

User currently offlineUAL Bagsmasher From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 2153 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8746 times:

Did you try looking for anything at the 401 site?

User currently offlineWilcharl From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1183 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8726 times:

i remember from an airline safety class back at Humpty Diddle them saying they were extremely close, and that some of the service "roads" if you could call them that for the salvage effort that were cut in, were used for both 401 and 592

User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8696 times:

As far as Critter 591 is concerned, I don't have any information about that crash site's precise location.

Critter 591 did not crash, Critter 591 was the flight that preceded the doomed crash (592). (Please note that it was a miracle that flight even survived.) They should have taken that plane out of service in ATL and never used it again. A Crash was inevitable at Valujet, and Oxy Canisters are not the only blame. The Electrical wiring in those Ex-Delta planes were Frayed, Sparked, Melted, Black, and they started alot of fires. It took a while for me to find out the truth. Most of those Delta Planes were out of service at any given time, and the turkish planes weren't much better, but they were better than the Delta jets.

However, Eastern 310 was BRAND NEW (Not even a 1/2 year old) and she crashed because of crew error. (Was the light bulb burnt out, or what?)

User currently offlineCody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1963 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8688 times:

No I really didn't look for anything. I imagine if you got down in there and looked around you would be bound to find something. To me it just looked like a big field of saw grass and one of the guys I was with said, "over there is where that 1011 crashed." Personally I would not get out of a boat and look for I am scared of alligators and water moccasins.

User currently offlinePositive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8690 times:

Make that 3 commerical airliners that have crashed in the Everglades. On February 12 1963 Northwest Airlines flight 705- a Boeing 720 bound from Miami- Portland broke up in flight over the Everglades and crashed killing all on board.

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 15347 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8638 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

How's THIS for a weird coincidence...my parents both worked for Eastern (yep, I was an airline brat), and N310EA entered service on August 18, 1972...precisely one day before I was born!

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4578 posts, RR: 31
Reply 15, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8595 times:

Does anyone know if pictures exist of the ill fated L1011 N310EA while in production or service?

nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineCody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1963 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8575 times:

I have a picture of N310EA landing at MIA that was made from a slide. It came from ATP so that one is out there. Also, I believe there is a picture of N310EA being built.

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 15347 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8526 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Lockheed factory floor photos are in the following book:

"Eastern Air Lines: An Illustrated History" by George W. Cearley

In these photos, you can clearly see N310EA on the assembly line, complete with EA livery and registration number shown.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8514 times:

According to the NTSB reports:

Eastern 401 impacted at 25 degrees, 52 minutes north; and 80 degrees, 36 minutes west.
Valujet 592 impacted at 25 degrees, 55 minutes north; and 80 degrees, 35 minutes west.

Interpolating that data indicates Valujet impacted 3 minutes north, and 1 minute east of Eastern.

I don't have an MIA Terminal chart im my office with me, I might have one in my stack at home, so I can't give you a mileage estimate. Perhaps someone else can, or I'll look this evening.

Tom in NO (at MSY)

"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 7454 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8509 times:

Where did the NW 720 impact?

I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 31
Reply 20, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8487 times:


I found the NTSB report on the NWA 720 crash, flight 705, at a really cool website: http://specialcollections.tasc.dot.gov/scripts/ws.dll?login&site=dot_aircraftacc.

From a blurry map in the appendix, it appears that NWA impacted at 25 degrees, 33 minutes north; and 80 degrees, 53 minutes west, about 34 miles WSW of MIA.

This would put it 19 minutes south, and 17 minutes west of EA.

FYI, the website listed above has NTSB reports from 1934-1965.

Tom in NO (at MSY)

"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineType-Rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (13 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8473 times:

Some of our neighbors were on that NW plane. We never heard anything about why it crashed, now I know.
The family used to leave the living room light on in a bay window at their house when they were out of town, and would turn it off when they got home (this was before timers)
That light stayed on for about a year before someone turned it off. Pretty creepy.
The family had a 17-year old son who stayed behind in Florida because he wanted to attend a basketball game, he was the only family survivor. The father had his own home construction business and this crash really sent shock waves through our area.
They were nice people, from what I remember.

User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 31
Reply 22, posted (13 years 5 months 23 hours ago) and read 8417 times:

OK, guys, I just got home, checked my charts. Didn't have an MIA terminal chart, but did have an old MIA sectional, and I plotted the crash sites.

So here they are in relation to MIA, and in relation to each other:

Direction and distance from MIA (terminal):
EA 401 crashed at 282 degrees and 17 miles from MIA.
VJ 592 crashed at 293 degrees and almost 17 miles from MIA.
NW 705 crashed at 246 degrees and 36 miles from MIA.

Direction and distance from each other:
EA 401 to VJ 592: 021 degrees and 3-odd miles (not far at all)
NW 705 to VJ 592: 037 degrees and 27.5 miles
NW 705 to EA 401: 041 degrees and 24.5 miles

If anyone wants me to email them the chart with the various locations on it, drop me a line, and I'll scan it to you.

Tom in NO (at MSY)

"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 15347 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (13 years 5 months 22 hours ago) and read 8406 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Nice work, Tom. Thanks for getting all that info. Is there any way you could post a scan of the chart and various locations here?

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 31
Reply 24, posted (13 years 5 months 18 hours ago) and read 8364 times:

I'd do it if I could, but my computer knowledge skills aren't the best. I'll email it to you if you like.

Tom in NO (at MSY)

"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineJj From Algeria, joined Jun 2001, 1227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (13 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 8322 times:

If you want complete NTSB accident reports, go here:


I have found every report I was interested in there. It's very complete....

Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
How Big Was Eastern? Hubs? And Eastern To Slc? posted Tue Dec 11 2001 23:39:08 by Twa902fly
What Aircraft Were Pan Am And Eastern To Get? posted Thu Aug 21 2003 04:16:18 by Tommy767
Were Eastern And Air-Shuttle Diff. Certificates posted Sat Jul 12 2003 15:56:42 by Cody
NWA - How Close To BK Exit? posted Mon Oct 16 2006 22:01:09 by DeltaDAWG
Eastern Airlines And LAX 1980s posted Sun Jun 25 2006 20:26:55 by Deltaflyertoo
How Does FedEx/UPS/DHL/and The Like Work? posted Wed May 17 2006 18:31:58 by B777A340Fan
How Close Did ATA Come To Getting Boeing 747? posted Sat Apr 8 2006 19:43:47 by 747400sp
Middle Eastern Airlines And The B737 posted Tue Mar 21 2006 18:30:56 by Cedars747
Eastern 401 posted Mon Mar 13 2006 02:59:42 by AA87
Info AMS. How Close Is This Spotter? posted Mon Feb 6 2006 11:43:11 by Jush