Backfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2892 times:
Well, sometimes it just happens like that.
Yes but the point is that it's extraordinarily rare for both aircraft to get away with it, especially given the contrast in size and speed between a commercial airliner and a light twin.
Incidentally the aircraft/helicopter collision you mentioned involved a small propeller-driven RAF Tucano trainer, and the impact did not kill the helicopter crew - it made a successful emergency landing.
You might have been thinking about the RAF Tornado which hit a Cessna over the UK, killing the crews of both the Tornado and the light aircraft.
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4210 posts, RR: 36 Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2846 times:
More amazing stuff has happened... In 1973, a Spantax Convair 990 and an Aviaco DC-9 had a mid air collision. While the DC-9 perished, the 990 made a safe emergency landing with about a third of its wing having been torn off ! Still the Spantax pilots had little to be proud of, check http://aviation-safety.net/database/1973/730305-2.htm.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
Positive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2723 times:
This is indeed a very rare case. In the majority of mid air collisions 1 aircraft is nearly always destroyed and a lot of the time both aircraft end up crashing. I don't think relative size of the aircraft has anything to do with it- look at the Aeromexico DC-9 which collided with the Archer, the PSA 727 which collided with the C172, or a Piedmont 727 which collided with a Baron back in the 1960's. There was a recent mid-air at Bankstown airport in Australia between a Piper PA28 Warrior and a Socata TB10 Tobago. The TB10 emerged almost unscathed whilst the PA28 crashed and its 4 occupants perished. The main factor in a mid-air is what point on the aircraft the impact is taken. The PSA 727 hit with the leading edge of the starboard wing severing fuel lines in the process. The Aeromexico DC-9 hit with its horizontal stabiliser which then detached from the plane causing the DC-9 to dive into the ground. As long as the impact doesn't involve any major flight controls then it should be survivable except of course if it occurs at cruising altitude where the high airspeeds involved mean chance of survival is 0 if a mid-air happens, this is what happened between the BA Trident and Adria DC-9 over Yugoslavia in 1976(combined speed was about 1200MPH!)
Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12166 posts, RR: 35 Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2676 times:
There was a mid air collision survival very early in the jet age, when an Air Algerie Caravelle landed safely at Orly, south of Paris, after surviving a mid air collision. The whole top of the aircraft was burning.
Backfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2620 times:
I don't think relative size of the aircraft has anything to do with it
If it doesn't then that means the Conservation of Momentum, one of the fundamental principles of physics, has been wrong all these years.
The fact is that if you're in a small aircraft and you get hit by a bigger one, your chances of escaping unscathed are minimal. That's why such collisions rarely see both aircraft survive. Correct me if I'm wrong but in the DC-9/Archer collision and the PSA accident, neither light aircraft survived the impact. The C404 over Namibia did - that's the difference.
EGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 37 Reply 12, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2525 times:
Backfire - The helicopter crew all perished, but the Tornadoes crew survived and landed safely, without even realizing they had hit something (suspected birdstrike)!.
odd odd world..
But then again, we have things that seemed like they were meant to be. There was the KLM/Pan Am Collision where a string of events for nearly a day led up to the final accident, and the 757/tu-154 collision over the German/Swiss Border where somehow both managed to collide despite being given many warnings to avoid the collision (one goes up, other goes down, then other goes up etc etc etc).
Positive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2415 times:
There was another mid-air from back in the 1970's that i just remembered. An ANA 727(i think) collided with a Japanese Airforce F4 Phantom. The 727 crashed with the loss of all on board whilst the F4 pilots managed to eject after the collision crippled their aircraft.
Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12166 posts, RR: 35 Reply 18, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2341 times:
I remember reading some time ago on PPRuNe, on a thread about MK Air, one of its DC8s suffered a birdstrike. Nothing terribly unusual about that, except that people were a little concerned because the bird was in its nest in a tree at the time! Maybe it should be a case of a bird suffering a planestrike!
Rick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 52 Reply 19, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2204 times:
"as for the 737, it continued to its destination"
Deryck Leathers of the Airline Pilots' Association of South Africa quite rightly chastised the 737 crew for such reckless behaviour.
How completely irresponsible to continue to your destination having suffered a mid-air collision without knowing the extent of the damage to your own aircraft and therefore subsequently putting the lives of your passengers at totally unnecessary risk.
Makes you wonder... it really does.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
Backfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1991 times:
This discussion was purely about the chances of a small aeroplane escaping a collision with a big aeroplane - that's all. Given a constant typical aircraft speed, it's mass (size) which makes the difference.
Never mind collision dynamics equations. You can prove it by jumping out in front of a skateboarder. And then doing the same with a bus.
25 Star_world: backfire - if you're going to dismiss someone's opinion, at least do it right! Mass and size have nothing to do with each other... Both are relevant b
26 Backfire: Star_world: Thanks for the clarification. Since I have a degree in physics, I'm reassured that such things are still as true today as they were in uni