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Lack Of Crashes (LGA)  
User currently offlineBigPhilNYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4076 posts, RR: 54
Posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1821 times:

The other post about there being no fatal crashes in 2002 got me thinking and reignited a fear of mine.

First, let me jsut say that there being no fatals in 2002 is understnadable, as I think that what happened on 9/11/01 was enough to put off fatal crashes for a while.

But my real worry is about La Guardia Airport. This airport has ad regular incidents between the years 1989 and 1998, from engine fires skidding planes, and to fatal crashes.

It's been years, that I know, that they've had any incidents. It's weird to me. I see it like an earthquake....when you don't get one for a while, you know a big one is coming.

Has LGA cleaned up their act? Any changes in airport operation the past few years?

Maybe the poor economy, forcing airlines to keep only the most experienced pilots, is to thakn for its lack of incidents.

Keep in mind, 7,000 foot runways, with water at the end of all of them except one, and the kind of traffic LGA has, is an appetite for disaster. I hope nothing happens.

Any comments or opinions?


Phil Derner Jr.
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCicadajet From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1794 times:

Here's a couple of images from the database... none of which include the USAir incidents...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Masella
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Polakos




There were reports of some professionlism issues in the tower many years ago...but nothing connected to the major accidents/incidents which occured over the years.


User currently offlineAA61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (11 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1738 times:

i know what your talking about bigphil. but you could be the pessimist and think that something may happen, or be the optimist and be glad that nothing has happened, and hopefully it will stay that way


Go big or go home
User currently offlineJanne From Sweden, joined Sep 2001, 379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1641 times:

Let's forget about the crashes, shall we, Big Phil.
I can understand your PAIN.
To cut all the crap, I liked your postings maybe half a year ago,
the photos of your toy planes when you where a kid and how
your shots did'nt make it to a.net.
I mean, THE PAIN!!!
I like your style. Keep it up. Let's get some more of that python style
of yours. Keep it up, Phil (no, I'm not talking about, everybody know's what).
/jl



User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1594 times:

I live right by LGA, so this is a major concern for me. It could be that airliners are using more modern aircraft into LGA these days which don't require as much runway for take-offs of landings. LGA has a new ATC system in place which would prevent incursions, etc. These are just my theories. Maybe someone at jfktower.com would know.

User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 5, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1531 times:

I dont really think that the ATC crew at LGA is the problem there, it is pilots and crew making poor decisions. Certainly, the airport is bursting at the seams, but it used to be a lot worse in terms of crowding during peak periods. The bottom line is that if a flight crew doesnt feel safe at some point during approach/takeoff (before decision speed)/taxi it is their job to notify ATC and take corrective measures. The only time I worry about being at LGA is during bad weather, but I could say the same thing about any crowded airport (not that I really worry about it though).


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineJcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1509 times:

I think LGA definately learned after those crashes, and has put in extra safety measure to prevent skid-offs etc.. but they can still occur. I also think a lot of those accidents had to do with
a) either airport conditions which the pilot cannot control
or
b) more likely, bad pilot decision

I do know for sure that LGA has had several "near-incidents" to which the result could have been tragic (i.e. midair collisions etc..) I believe they have tightened up on how close they space aircraft, and the way they use the perpendicular runways.

Phil, I know what you mean though... It seems that LGA is due sometime for a big accident.. Hopefully that won't happen, but many people believe LGA is a living time bomb, set to go off at any moment...


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1496 times:

To my way of thinking, LGA hasn't had that many accidents. The US F-28 (1992) and more recently, the DL flight that bellied in are accidents (and the DL amazingly fatality-free). Some others (while technically accidents due to their exceeding the damage cost threshold), were essentially incidents turned into accidents due to the unforgiving nature of LGA's cramped space.

I mean, US 5050 hydroplaning off the end at any other airport would have been in the mud, and no big deal as far as a hull-loss, but LGA's pier and runway lights supports changed that. Ditto for the CO MD-80 that slid off via going up the blast wall. Another aircraft that would have been in the mud anywhere else.

So it's not so much that LGA has "accidents", it just tends to magnify complace incidents into accidents.



User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1453 times:

Lets not jinx LGA now.

Right after it was released that 2002 had been low in the amount of crashes worldwide and none in the USA, three crashes happen in about 24 hours with one in the USA.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7987 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1435 times:

I think they want more experienced pilots flying in and out of LGA due to the tricky ATC situation and also the relatively short runways at that airport. It's probably the respect for the dangers at LGA that has kept the incident rate there down recently.

User currently offlineJcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1334 times:

RayChuang:

I dunno about that because many DASH-8 and CRJ/ERJ turboprop planes are flown into LGA, and usually those captains and F/O's have the least amount of experience at that airline.
It's just a matter of landing safely. Landing at LGA is like landing anywhere else, but as a flight officer, you have to be more aware of your "surroundings" and weather conditions.


User currently offlineContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1318 times:

I personally fear LGA and yet, still fly out of it, when I can't get to Newark. I was in college in 1992 when a US Airways Fokker F28 (or was it an F100) I don't remember) skidded off the snowy runway and plunged into the icy water killing around 28 of the 50 odd people on board. That flight was operating LGA to CLE and had my spring break been a week earlier than scheduled, a lot of my class mates and I would have been on that flight.

ContinentalEWR


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1311 times:

>>> I was in college in 1992 when a US Airways Fokker F28 (or was it an F100) I don't remember) skidded off the snowy runway and plunged into the icy water killing around 28 of the 50 odd people on board.

That was US405, and it actually tookoff, stalled, and then crashed. Turns out that it had had been too long since it had been deiced, and it should have gone back for another deicing. Afterwards, FAA conducted an industry-wide conference on deicing and winter ops (I was there), and we have not seen another similar type of accident, not counting the customary runway excursions, which are far less deadly...


User currently offlineBigPhilNYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4076 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1231 times:

I mean, US 5050 hydroplaning off the end at any other airport would have been in the mud, and no big deal as far as a hull-loss

OPNLguy, No big deal? Two people died, who gives cares about the plane?




Phil Derner Jr.
User currently offlineBigPhilNYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4076 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1236 times:

Janne, I dont get online as much as I used to, but once I'm back up and runnning, youll see a lot more posts like that of my ones from months before.




Phil Derner Jr.
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7521 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1146 times:

Ok, another strange occurance.....

Someone posted the topic about no crashes in 2002.....within a few days there were 3 accidents including the one in CLT.

Now someone posts this topic....and within a few days, sure enough there is a ground incident in LGA with the NW A319 hitting the jetway and another 757.

A rather strange coincidence?


User currently offlineJcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1116 times:

Yea.. it's funny how people were saying "Don't jinx LGA now" and then this happened. Of course this wasn't a "real" crash as there was only minor damage and no one was killed, but still, kinda weird..

User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13511 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1112 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Here are some photos of today's incident involving a NW A-319 at LGA:

http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=3320&sessionID={753A1667-3A40-40B6-8B56-E34F6B1B9031}



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineBeefmoney From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1113 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1105 times:

BigPhil, I think OPNLGuy ment that at any other airport it would have been no big deal, because it would have just skidded into mud at the end of the runway. Go back and read the quote.

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