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Milwaukee * Any Intl Airlines In The Future? *  
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2881 times:

What are the chances of seeing any international traffic (besides Air Canada) at KMKE? I would think, with the population being over 600,000, it could support a couple international carriers from Europe at least, even if it is right next door to Chicago. It works in New York. Kennedy and Newark both have an awesome array of international traffic. Has anyone considered it?



41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirontario From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 560 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2862 times:

I think the only way that MKE would get International traffic is as a low cost change, the only problem is that there is Midway also so I doubt it in the near future.

User currently offlineMia777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2002, 1165 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2855 times:

he said international...and Midway would be the equivalent of La Guardia anyways...


MIA777
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2839 times:

I was just about to post the same thing. MDW is the equivalent of La Guardia.

User currently offlineCcrlR From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2834 times:
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I know that all three have international service to another country. Canada and Mexico for Milwaukee. They get charters there but no scheduled service like at MDW with Mexicana and ORD. Icelandair would be good for this. Mabye they could try going to MKE like they go to BWI for anyone who goes from the DC area.


"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
User currently offlineDIA77 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 705 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2828 times:

MDW gets more international service than LGA or MKE.

User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2819 times:

I doubt Milwaukee would get anything soon. The only two airlines outside North America I see as possible 10 years down the road could be BA or LH.



User currently offlineDoug_or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3437 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2815 times:

600,000 and close to ORD? why?


When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineCO777-200ER From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 335 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2751 times:

I thought one time a couple years ago there was a rumor going on with Lufthansa or Lufthansa Cargo looking at MKE. But I guess nothing really happening with that. I could see MKE getting international cargo service before any big european scheduled passenger service. Maybe there send some of the cargo flights to ORD and switch them to MKE. I would say if MKE wants any international service they need a better terminal, I live in MKE and they only have one gate for the international terminal but thats all they need now. Right now MKE gets quite a few Mexico flights and Jamaica flights for charters.


JOEY


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4514 posts, RR: 34
Reply 9, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2742 times:

MKE, it seems to me, is not likely to see scheduled transatlantic service. The local population and business base simply isn't big enough, and ORD is much closer to the north side suburbs and downtown Chicago. The only possibility I could think of, and it's still remote, is LTU.

Wisconsin of course has a large German population. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Lufthansa's recent decision to enter PDX. But that's not a parallel situation. PDX has several corporations with large operations in Germany, and thus high-yield traffic. Milwaukee's connection to Germany is mostly cultural, which means mostly low-yield leisure traffic.

LTU would the candidate in that case. They fly to Ft. Myers of course, which is like Milwaukee a medium-size metropolitan area; but Ft. Myers has palm trees and year-round beaches, which Milwaukee does not.  Big grin

Does anyone here have the book "General Mitchell International Airport: A record of progress" by George Hardie? I picked it up at the MKE bookstore when I was up there this past summer. That's quite a book--I wish every airport had a diligent local historian, funding, and piles of pictures (including great aerial terminal and field shots) going back 60 years. Good to see that someone got pictures of the NW 747s at MKE in the mid-1970's, that's something not likely to be repeated.

In a world where my priorities could allow it, I'd love to do a book like that about ROC.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineDoug_or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3437 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2732 times:

I would also point out that PDX also has UAX feed and is a larger city with only seattle 3 hours away as an alternate.


When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2723 times:

I would think, with the population being over 600,000, it could support a couple international carriers from Europe at least

Colorado Springs has a population of a little over 500,000. That's close to MKE.

Does that mean it could support a couple international flights to Europe?

Denver has a population of a little over 2,700,000 and it only has 2 daily flights to Europe and 1 daily to Mexico.

It takes a lot to get a flight to anywhere off of this continent.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offline5280AGL From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 414 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2718 times:

Techincally, the Milwaukee metro is at 1.7M, probably enough to support an international carrier. However, the problem is that MKE is just too close to ORD. Also, Milwaukee is not exactly booming economically and has plateaued population-wise. Honestly, with the economy the way it is, I can't imagine seeing any new international markets opened up in the U.S., especially in mid-sized cities.

I remember as a child seeing those NWA 747s in Milwaukee...I also saw EAL L-1011s and UAL DC-10s in Omaha, TWA L-1011s in Albuquerque, TWA 747s in Kansas City, etc, etc...Those days will never be back, unfortunately.


User currently offlineLfutia From Netherlands, joined Dec 2002, 3352 posts, RR: 31
Reply 13, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2719 times:
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CclR "I know that all three have international service to another country. Canada and Mexico for Milwaukee. They get charters there but no scheduled service like at MDW with Mexicana and ORD. Icelandair would be good for this. Mabye they could try going to MKE like they go to BWI for anyone who goes from the DC area."

I def. could see Icelandair come to MDW or ORD. I think that once FI gets more planes they might just serve ORD or MDW. Funny thing is that i went looking for flights to KEF just for fun and the flights from the US all arrive 10-15 after the first ones and then after they unload, the go to Europe. They run on a hub and spoke system.

Leo/ORD



Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33194 posts, RR: 71
Reply 14, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2710 times:

I def. could see Icelandair come to MDW or ORD. I think that once FI gets more planes they might just serve ORD or MDW. Funny thing is that i went looking for flights to KEF just for fun and the flights from the US all arrive 10-15 after the first ones and then after they unload, the go to Europe. They run on a hub and spoke system.

Well, since there is not that much US-Iceland traffic (though Iceland is a magnificent place to visit!), that's why Icelandair is so popular. They have a modern fleet and excellent service, but most important undercut the compietition in price. A large amount of thier US traffic is connecting to Europe.

As for expansion of Icelandair in the US. I would look for them to add Philadelphia and/or Ft. Lauderdale before anything else. Though I think adding a city is at least 2-3 years away.



a.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2689 times:

5280AGL,

Techincally, the Milwaukee metro is at 1.7M

I think it depends on the city itself. There are VERY few cities with a population between 1.5 and 2 million that could support a flight to Europe. Like you said, Milwaukee is not exactly a booming city which is why I don't think it will see a flight to Europe anytime soon.

Like you also mentioned, it's too close to Chicago. I think an excelent example to compare it with is Detroit (DTW), a simply huge city with nearly 10 million people.

For it's size, Detroit has very little Europe service. Most of it is with Northwest, and those flights mostly rely on connections.

British Airways and Lufthansa are the only 2 European carriers that serve DTW and that's because of it's close proximity to Chicago.

If Detroit was farther out, then it could very well possibly have 3 to 5 more European carriers, and nearly doubled the Europe service it currently gets. It could be close to what ORD has.

Regarding Icelandair. Chicago seems to be the most logical destination for them to serve next. Not only is Chicago an extremely large city, but it has a good Icelandic population as well.

Regards




"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2678 times:

*Hypothetical Question*

If Midwest Express were to go under, and Northwest were to build the flights back up to mid-late 80's levels at MKE, would Northwest try to compete with some of the ORD intl flights? Maybe routes to FRA,LGW,CDG, or any asian routes?


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2674 times:

MKE, would Northwest try to compete with some of the ORD intl flights? Maybe routes to FRA,LGW,CDG, or any asian routes?

You're hoping too much for MKE, Maiznblu_757......

Northwest would never try add flights to Europe or Asia as they would be competing with themselves.

Northwest's international gateway is Detroit, and a good number of international flights from Minneapolis.

It's the same reason why United doesn't have international flights from Denver. Because they're done from Chicago, Washington D.C., San Francisco, and Los Angeles.

Milwaukee is not a large city. Nor is it a booming city, nor is it a large air travel market.

It wouldn't be able to support a large airline hub. The only way to make international flights from MK work out is if you had enough connections. You would need more than 150 flights do accomplish this.

Not only is it large enough, but it's too close to Chicago. Many consider Milwaukee Airport Chicago's 3rd Airport.

They are simply too close. MKE is not a large air travel market and over the years has been shrinking.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2667 times:

Not even the beer????????????????????????????????????????  Big thumbs up


Im not hoping for them to get this service. It was just a question. I thought it would be a good discussion.


User currently offlineDoug_or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3437 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

BA- most frequent high yield buisness travellers I've met from DTW (admitadley, less than 10) are NWA super platnum elite whatever types, who almostalways fly NW and are afraid to even set foot in the unholy dump of a terminal UAL and AA fly from. I would doubt much DTW O&D traffic goes though ORD, except maybe for the occasional lower yield deal seeker.


When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2659 times:

Doug_or,

My point being is Northwest has several Europe and Asia flights from DTW because it's there largest hub. Not because they feel a city of it's size doesn't have enough service.

I'm sure Northwest has many O&D passengers in DTW, but what is the point of a hub? To connect people.

Now in order for a hub to work out, there obviously needs to be a strong O&D base. But at the same time, a viable place to do connections.

That's my point.

Hubs always have a lot of O&D. For example, 55% of the passengers United carries through Denver are O&D which is a strong figure considering there are nearly 400 flights.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offline5280AGL From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 414 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2652 times:

BA--

I think the comparison with Detroit is a good one. However, I think a big reason why Detroit or Minneapolis for the matter lacks international carriers is because of NWA, plain and simple. NWA flies a lot of international routes out of both cities and they control the market, thus, they have the power to basically block entry. There is no way that a city like Minneapolis (not so much Detroit anymore, because the city is declining in population every year) would be overlooked by international carriers. I would bet without the presence of NWA, Minneapolis would be flocking with international carriers, both Asian and European.

As far as NWA building up in MKE, nah...They could now if they really wanted to, but why? Adding another international port between DTW and MSP wouldn't make much sense.


User currently offlineDoug_or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3437 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2650 times:

I agree, i was just responding to

For it's size, Detroit has very little Europe service. Most of it is with Northwest, and those flights mostly rely on connections.

British Airways and Lufthansa are the only 2 European carriers that serve DTW and that's because of it's close proximity to Chicago





When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineDoug_or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3437 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2649 times:

5280agl- right on, i itnhk iwas saying they do have a lot of international serivce, thoguh NWA, and that the proximity to ORD had little or no effect on service levels.

I assume BA was refering to the number of international carriers, which DTW certinaly does lack



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2647 times:

Username: 5280AGL
Respect Rating: 12
Posted 2003-01-08 05:14:29 and read 1 times

I would bet without the presence of NWA, Minneapolis would be flocking with international carriers, both Asian and European.


I will agree. There is a STRONG asian base in Minny. I could see ANA,JAL, or even CX there without NWA.


25 Post contains images BA : 5280AGL, I agree that NWA is the biggest reason as well. As is with all major airline hubs really with the exception of a few. However even if NWA was
26 ConcordeBoy : Both British Airways and Lufthansa applied to fly to MSP several years ago but were rejected by the city. That's not exactly true on the BA part.... B
27 BA : I know all about the Bermuda II, ConcordeBoy.... Here is the Bermuda II for you: a) Only two US and two UK airlines may operate to the US from LHR. Cu
28 Yow : British Airways and Lufthansa are the only 2 European carriers that serve DTW and that's because of it's close proximity to Chicago. Uhhh...Last time
29 Maiznblu_757 : Technically, Royal Jordanian flies to Europe from DTW also.... Albeit, its a conditional stopover.
30 Post contains images TzMSP : BA: I would be curious to know more information on any limit that the City of Minneapolis or State of Minnesota has on international carriers. MSP is
31 ORD Boy 2 : I think that MKE will get service to europe eventually
32 AA-STL : MKE is not that big, and it would be ran mainly off of O & D. Unless a bigger airline than Midwest moves in and spokes it out it probably wont happen.
33 Mlsrar : They could now if they really wanted to, but why? Well, NW might really want to, but they legally couldn't. Contractually, around the contraction of t
34 HlywdCatft : Before Northwest got big at DTW- other airlines flew to DTW from Europe- I recall seeing Sabena 742s and DC-10s, Alitalia 742s, JAT DC-10s and LOT Il-
35 Scutfarcus : Back to the original topic... I think there are 3 scenerios that could lead to international (transcontinental that is) service from Milwaukee. None
36 CO777-200ER : Here in Milwaukee, they just completed the new parking structure and now are adding a couple gate to Concourse C. So it seems like there is a small d
37 Post contains images Continental : MKE is like 40-60 miles from ORD right? That's like adding an intl' flight to Duluth, when MSP is so close. I think MSP should get more traffic! I kno
38 Post contains images TzMSP : Mlsrar: Now that SY is once again running both chartered and scheduled service from MSP, how does this affect YX? (They are still serving MSP daily fr
39 Post contains images BA : Yow, KLM is partnered with Northwest Airlines and DTW is Northwest's largest hub. Of course KLM is going to fly there. I'm talking about other Europea
40 Douglas DC-9 : Lufthansa, and KLM fly to MKE. Well atleast there was a KLM A320 or A319 idling at one of NWA's gates at MKE. Daniel
41 AerLingus : HlywdCatft said: Before Northwest got big at DTW- other airlines flew to DTW from Europe- I recall seeing Sabena 742s and DC-10s, Alitalia 742s, JAT D
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