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Topic: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: ogshelly
Posted 2012-10-17 06:41:11 and read 12169 times.

Such is the headline of iReport.CNN back in August 1, 2012. I thought that instead of the Dreamliner, Peña Nieto's new administration was acquiring the space shuttle. Today, I was very happy to read that Aeromexico will negotiate with Boeing, the acquisition of the 787-9 for newly elected president of Mexico Enrique Peña Nieto at a fraction of the price originally posted by CNN, it is $139 MM USD taking advantage of the order for 90 - 737-8 and 10 - 787's in Boeing's works currently. Training of pilots, engineers and mechanics will be championed by AMX. Below, both URL's:

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-823577 | http://www.excelsior.com.mx/index.ph...cion=portada&cat=28&id_nota=864786

Feel free to comment, add, delete, correct anything, you folks are the experts.
Good day amigos

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: ORDBOSEWR
Posted 2012-10-17 06:45:53 and read 12153 times.

Should be 781 Million peso's and ~140M dollar, according to the article.
That is the purchase price that AeroMexico is paying and those are the terms for the presidents new plane.

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2012-10-17 08:39:56 and read 11770 times.

This has been discussed ad nauseam, but let's do it again: 750 million dollars was the aggregate cost of the lease payments of a 787-800 over 15 or 20 years (can't remember the exact term, but I think it was 20), plus a comprehensive maintenance and overhaul package that would cover the entire lease term. I do not believe 750 million was an outrageous amount for all these concepts spread over such a long period of time. The real problems are the inability of the Federal Government to explain in detail its plans, the bad faith and sensationalism of the media when reporting these types of news, and the ignorance and whining of large segments of the population.

Anyway, I think that the new plan consisting of a direct purchase of a 787-900 for 139 million is in the end a very good solution that will appease the whiners and will let the Federal Government have a state of the art aircraft for years to come.

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: g500
Posted 2012-10-17 09:03:08 and read 11628 times.

That 787 will be a good replacement for that old 757-200

Flying from Mexico City's high altitude to anywhere in Europe, Asia, Mid East and even deep South America requires a stop. Those get expensive with security and coordination. The 787 should take care of that

And as Eddie said, if the Mexican government took 5 minutes to explain why they're buying the airplane, that'd save them a lot of headaches

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-17 10:08:18 and read 11388 times.

Is this the first state-owned and operated 787?

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: AR385
Posted 2012-10-17 10:14:53 and read 11347 times.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
The real problems are the inability of the Federal Government to explain in detail its plans, the bad faith and sensationalism of the media when reporting these types of news, and the ignorance and whining of large segments of the population.
Quoting g500 (Reply 3):
And as Eddie said, if the Mexican government took 5 minutes to explain why they're buying the airplane, that'd save them a lot of headaches

I´m not so sure. Same thing happened back in the 80s when they got the 757. No matter the President had been flying for two decades in an old 727, the media raised up a stink when they discovered the 757 had been bought. I guess it´s what sells, and since logic doesn´t sell, you need to use these stories to generate stupid arguments.

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: g500
Posted 2012-10-17 11:21:11 and read 9966 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):

Sounds like it will be the first presidential 787.

Maybe a brand new 737 BBJ or ACJ-319 (airbus corporate jet) would have been a bit more discreet and half the price.... Those ACJ-319s have a 6700 Nautical mile range. The 737-BBJ has a 6400 NM range.

But then again our president here flies from D.C to NYC in a 747, so......

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: odwyerpw
Posted 2012-10-17 11:23:51 and read 9922 times.

That is the issue here... communication.
In Mexico, we are very leary of large purchases made by public officials just on their way in or just on their way out of office. It is during these transitional periods that the graft and corruption runs the wildest.

The government really needed to explain the full details of the purchase to the public... Why? Because ultimately it is the public's money. Well the money of the 66% of those who get to participate in the economy. The 33% living in abject poverty cannot even begin to understand the necessity of such purchases. It really has to be laid out to them in very simple terms (fuel savings, maintenance savings, fuelstop staff/security savings, etc..).

That said, glad to see the 787-9 coming to Mexico!!

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2012-10-23 15:12:29 and read 9123 times.

Why didn't Mexico just pick up one of the decommissioned flight test B-788s? Boeing has written them off. Removing test equipment, wiring, and refurbishing these airplanes can be done relitively cheaply. They still have the range to fly non-stop MEX to anywhere in the EU, and most places in western Asia. The B-788 is still a bogger airplane than the B-752.

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: Stitch
Posted 2012-10-23 15:15:11 and read 9122 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
Why didn't Mexico just pick up one of the decommissioned flight test B-788s? Boeing has written them off.

Boeing legally cannot sell ZA001, ZA002 or ZA003.

As for ZA004, ZA005 and ZA006 it might be that the change incorporation cost is such that it's cheaper to buy a new-build. That being said, ZA006 is evidently undergoing change incorporation so it appears one 787VIP customer went that route...

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2012-10-24 06:54:57 and read 8899 times.

Thanks, stitch. That means if Mexico were to go that route, and wanted RR power, the only airplane available would be ZA-004, as ZA-005 has GEnx engines.

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: yyz717
Posted 2012-10-28 08:33:37 and read 8433 times.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
Anyway, I think that the new plan consisting of a direct purchase of a 787-900 for 139 million is in the end a very good solution that will appease the whiners and will let the Federal Government have a state of the art aircraft for years to come.


In a country as poor as Mexico, surely that $139M can be better spent on healthcare, education, or perhaps law enforcement. Third world countries do not need state-of-the-art Presidential aircraft when they are facing so many social problems. This new 789 will NOT help the average (poor) Mexican nor solve the Mexican crime problems.

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2012-10-28 15:23:47 and read 8323 times.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 11):
This new 789 will NOT help the average (poor) Mexican nor solve the Mexican crime problems.

Neither will the $139M. With the size of the budget of Mexico, about $250B, this isn't even a drop in the budget bucket. Mexico has the world's 13th largest economy (PPP), with a 2012 GDP of $1.75T (PPP) and a GDP per capita of nearly $15,800. Mexico has a population of nearly 115M people, and 10.5% of the population is discribed as being "extreme poverty". Then again, Mexico has a school drop out rate about 22%.

Crime in Mexico is a whole other problem the Mexican people face, mostly from drug lords with the extremely high murder rate.

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: AirRyan
Posted 2012-10-28 16:28:10 and read 8310 times.

I don't see where a G-V or Global Express would not have served the Mexican President just fine. Does Mexico President really make a lot of worldwide trips? Do they carry a lot of staff, or security?

Mexico's interests would seemingly be more confined to the Western hemisphere, are they really much of a global player? (Exports/Imports.) And will this be a BBJ like configuration, or will it have some sort of secure comms infrastructure? Just don't see where they need a plane the size of a 787. Makes sense to let AeroMexico do the purchase and MX for cost savings like Qantas does, but for example in the US, in order to work on AF1 you have to have TS security clearance, which not every qualified mech is readily able to get and keep. ($$$)

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: bikerthai
Posted 2012-10-29 06:40:41 and read 8197 times.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 11):
In a country as poor as Mexico,

Relative to the US yes, relative to other countries, no. Mexico has an large trade surplus with the US. tthat has to say something.

Third world? Don't think so. With plenty of export of agricultural and manufacturing goods to the US, Mexico would be more closely be considered as second world.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 11):
country as poor as Mexico, surely that $139M can be better spent on healthcare, education,

Why? we don't do it here in the US  
Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
. Does Mexico President really make a lot of worldwide trips

Just look at who owns all the electronic manufacturing plants in Mexico. If you want to bring that type of work to Mexico, you have to go to where the board room for those companies resides . . . Japan and China. Then just think of the flights to the South America . . . it's not trans oceanic but it's definitely intercontinental . . .  
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 11):
Third world countries do not need state-of-the-art Presidential aircraft

This will not be a state-of-the-art aircraft in the same sense as AF1. It will be more or less similar to Aeromexico's 787 (with maybe some advance communication added). We are not talking about command and control here.

bt

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: Devilfish
Posted 2012-10-29 10:25:00 and read 8145 times.

Quoting g500 (Reply 6):
Maybe a brand new 737 BBJ or ACJ-319 (airbus corporate jet) would have been a bit more discreet and half the price.... Those ACJ-319s have a 6700 Nautical mile range. The 737-BBJ has a 6400 NM range.
Quoting bikerthai (Reply 14):
Just look at who owns all the electronic manufacturing plants in Mexico. If you want to bring that type of work to Mexico, you have to go to where the board room for those companies resides . . . Japan and China. Then just think of the flights to the South America . . . it's not trans oceanic but it's definitely intercontinental . . .

If they wanted nonstop global reach, the farthest possible capital from MEX (apart from the former Russian republics) is CGK which would require at least 91120 nm via GC.....

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=mex+-+d...+rgn+/+pnh+/+khi+/+bom+/+thr&DU=nm


As an aside, Boeing now offers a BBJ version of the 738MAX.....

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....e-xml/awx_10_29_2012_p0-511481.xml

6,325 NM range.....4 passengers.  Smile I wonder what the rest of the plane would be for.  scratchchin 

[Edited 2012-10-29 11:03:44]

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2012-10-30 03:40:26 and read 8048 times.

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 14):
Third world? Don't think so. With plenty of export of agricultural and manufacturing goods to the US, Mexico would be more closely be considered as second world.

Actually, first world, second world, and third world have nothing to do with economies. It is a military alignment with first world aligned with the US and/or NATO, second world aligned with Russia and communism, and third world not aligned countries. In this respect, Mexico is a non-aligned country.

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: bikerthai
Posted 2012-10-30 05:44:10 and read 8027 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
. In this respect, Mexico is a non-aligned country.

  

Thought about this after the post. However, people keep referring to "third world" as poor/impoverish. Maybe we should all shift to new definition because the the world have broken up in to many geo-polictical allegiances now . . . so the economic connotation remains the best definition.

bt

Topic: RE: New 750 Million Dollar Mexican President Toy? No
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2012-11-14 12:14:56 and read 7618 times.

But Mexico has a bigger and more stable economy than Greece or Spain.


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