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Topic: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-06-14 18:27:26 and read 15454 times.

http://ussenterp.epetitions.net/signatures.php?petition_id=1870

Please sign up.

I also wish to express my disgust at the practice over the last few decades of naming our Navy's finest warships after politicians. I think it is quite indicative of how, as the Federal government has gotten bigger and bigger, the heads of our elected leaders have gotten so big as to think that their names should be immortalized.

Let's bring back the great names of the past - names that denoted great struggle and achievement.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-06-14 19:00:48 and read 15421 times.

Signed and agreed (I know, monumental, right?)

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: casinterest
Posted 2012-06-14 19:05:04 and read 15414 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Let's bring back the great names of the past - names that denoted great struggle and achievement.

I agree with you on this.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: rfields5421
Posted 2012-06-14 19:15:00 and read 15401 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
my disgust at the practice over the last few decades of naming our Navy's finest warships after politicians.

I understand but don't necessarily like naming ships after Presidents - but that is a relatively established practice.

I abhor the naming of ships after a living person.

The only part of the deal they got right was naming a submarine after President Carter and a carrier after President Bush 41. Those at least had a valid reason (though it should have been after their passing).

But despite all of that - if we are getting a new JFK (CVN-79) then we deserve a new Enterprise - the third carrier - CV-6 was USS Enterprise along with CVAN-65 - and there were at least five previous USS Enterprise US Navy ships dating back to 1775.

Petition signed. Letter sent to SecNav, both Senators and my Congressman

SCPO Ret

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Confuscius
Posted 2012-06-14 19:15:37 and read 15397 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Let's bring back the great names of the past

How 'bout Gambier Bay?

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: 2707200X
Posted 2012-06-14 19:19:31 and read 15399 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
I also wish to express my disgust at the practice over the last few decades of naming our Navy's finest warships after politicians. I think it is quite indicative of how, as the Federal government has gotten bigger and bigger, the heads of our elected leaders have gotten so big as to think that their names should be immortalized.

I guess not big on the naming of CVN-76, the USS Ronald Reagan lol. I like the name, the USS Enterprise to be applied to CVN-80, it is a fine balance in my view between the (78) Gerald R. Ford a rep. and the (79) John F. Kennedy, a dem. It is a great tribute to the worlds first nuclear aircraft carrier, the CVN-65, "Big E", delivered in 1961.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: fr8mech
Posted 2012-06-14 19:20:26 and read 15392 times.

Done.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
I also wish to express my disgust at the practice over the last few decades of naming our Navy's finest warships after politicians.

Agreed. There are but a very few politicians that should be honored in this way. And, I can't really think of a living one right now. And, just to add, I find it disturbing that a ship is named for anyone who is still alive...even if the ship is just a keel being laid.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-06-14 20:33:24 and read 15337 times.

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 5):
I guess not big on the naming of CVN-76, the USS Ronald Reagan lol. I like the name, the USS Enterprise to be applied to CVN-80, it is a fine balance in my view between the (78) Gerald R. Ford a rep. and the (79) John F. Kennedy, a dem. It is a great tribute to the worlds first nuclear aircraft carrier, the CVN-65, "Big E", delivered in 1961.

As much as I admire Reagan, I don't think naming our flagships after politicians is a good idea - or people in general for that matter. I can understand naming one Nimitz - one of the great grand strategists in the use of carriers, and not a politician.

But I would like to see a new series named Lexington, Saratoga, Yorktown, Midway, Bunker Hill, and another with names like Independence, Intrepid, and so forth.

Politicians are supposed to be public servants. Naming our ships for them is like a rich guy naming his yacht after the maid.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-06-14 20:40:05 and read 15339 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):

I also wish to express my disgust at the practice over the last few decades of naming our Navy's finest warships after politicians. I think it is quite indicative of how, as the Federal government has gotten bigger and bigger, the heads of our elected leaders have gotten so big as to think that their names should be immortalized.

You were doing fine until you started editorializing here given that the practice is hardly something that's become new in the last few decades. The USS Adams (named for John Adams) was laid down in 1797, the year of his inauguration, and placed into commission two years later. USS Franklin (named for Ben, natch) - 1777. The second ship named for John Hancock was commissioned nearly three months before the Declaration of Independence was signed. Martin Van Buren had a vessel named for him that entered service during his presidency. Sam Houston also had a ship named for him while his political career was still active. I'll agree that it seems to be happening a bit more regularly now then than, but it's not something that's just recently happened. Keep in mind to that ultimately it's SECNAV who names the ships, not elected leaders. Keep in mind that famous quote of Admiral Rickover's when the first twelve units of the Los Angeles-class were named for the home cities of the key members of Congress who were responsible for getting the boats approved (overturning the Silent Service's longstanding tradition of having its boats named for denizens of the deep - "Fish don't vote!"

At any rate, personally the names I feel most in need of return to service are:

Ranger
Enterprise
Constellation
South Carolina (hey, what can I say, I'm partial  )
Saratoga
Yorktown
Lexington
Hornet

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
Independence

You've got one already. LCS-2 was commissioned on 1/16/10 and is the lead ship of her class..


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/USS_Independence_LCS-2_at_pierce_%28cropped%29.jpg/800px-USS_Independence_LCS-2_at_pierce_%28cropped%29.jpg

[Edited 2012-06-14 20:43:57]

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-06-14 20:41:27 and read 15334 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
I don't think naming our flagships after politicians is a good idea - or people in general for that matter.

I'm okay with it, but only posthumously. That goes for politicians - I'd be okay with naming ships after high-ranking or important members of the military after they've retired.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2012-06-14 22:19:31 and read 15276 times.

Agreed, and signed! The unofficial "Flagship" of the US Navy should always be Enterprise.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Confuscius
Posted 2012-06-14 23:37:06 and read 15252 times.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 8):

Saratoga
Yorktown
Lexington

I like names after battle location. Maybe new names such as Haditha, Fallujah, Tora Bora or Abbottabad.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 10):
should always be Enterprise

Why would you want to name an aircraft carrier after a car rental company?

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: na
Posted 2012-06-15 04:34:46 and read 15189 times.

Enterprise, great name for a future carrier. But I think the next one should be named America. Enterprise would be fine for CVN-82 or so. I was a bit surprised that already CVN-79 will be named John F. Kennedy. Not a bad man, but there is still a carrier with that name, even if retired a few years ago. They should have waited until CVN-84 or so to give that name out again.

I also never understood why the latest of the US most prestigious warships are named after recent presidents with less than brilliant office records or almost unknown politicians. Worse even, after a living one who wasnt one of the greatest in the office and the father of one of the worst ever. No problems at all with Nimitz, Washington, Lincoln or Roosevelt. But Bush, Ford, Reagan, come on, those men do not deserve that honour, destroyers or submarines would have been enough for such secondary presidents.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: fr8mech
Posted 2012-06-15 05:26:51 and read 15162 times.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 12):
Why would you want to name an aircraft carrier after a car rental company?

I know that's tongue in cheek, but the car rental company is named after CV6 U.S.S. Enterprise.
http://www.enterpriseholdings.com/about-us/heritage/

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-06-15 05:32:10 and read 15164 times.

Quoting na (Reply 13):
But I think the next one should be named America

That's also a name that's been taken again by USS America (LHA-6), which will be the lead ship of her class of amphibious assault ships and is slated to be delivered next year.

[img[http://www.navytimes.com/xml/news/2008/06/navy_america_name_063008w/063008_america_800.JPG>[/img]

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: SmittyOne
Posted 2012-06-15 07:03:07 and read 15135 times.

Too bad they didn't preserve CV-6 as a museum. Easily as important as USS Constitution to our naval heritage.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/USS_Enterprise_%28CV-6%29_in_Puget_Sound%2C_September_1945.jpg

[Edited 2012-06-15 07:08:45]

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: dl021
Posted 2012-06-15 07:57:51 and read 15099 times.

Agreed. We need a new Saratoga, Midway, and definitely a new Enterprise. Honoring the ships and Naval heroes that served before, and by extension their crews and families, is an important naval tradition that improves morale and drives the present day crews to greater achievement and pride in their ships and jobs.

Who really cares to be serving a vessel named Gerald Ford or Jimmy Carter? I know both served in the navy, but who cares? Purely political to name important vessels for them, and the politicians need to stop being so self serving. There seems to be a competition and tit for tat game being played here. Shughart and Gordon get supply ships while Ford and Carter get capital ships? What's that other than ignorant politics.

Heroes, battles and important historical vessels. If they did much for the navy, Nimitz, Reagan (he did get the 600 ship navy going) or Rickover, then there are worthy exceptions...but stop with dishonorable the important and overvaluing people like Stennis, Murtha and others who are there for purely political reasons.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-06-15 08:00:47 and read 15101 times.

Let's try this again:

[quote=garnetpalmetto,reply=15]
That's also a name that's been taken again by USS America (LHA-6), which will be the lead ship of her class of amphibious assault ships and is slated to be delivered next year.

http://www.navytimes.com/xml/news/2008/06/navy_america_name_063008w/063008_america_800.JPG

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-06-15 10:32:22 and read 15062 times.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 8):
You've got one already. LCS-2 was commissioned on 1/16/10 and is the lead ship of her class..

Woah woah woah... is that a spaceship?

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-06-15 11:02:57 and read 15037 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 8):
You've got one already. LCS-2 was commissioned on 1/16/10 and is the lead ship of her class..

Woah woah woah... is that a spaceship?

It's a littoral combat ship or something, ask someone in the Navy what that means... oh wait... well I'm on the aviation side  

But for real, yeah it's a strange looking ship. I think they're designed for close to shore operations. That and another ship were competing to be the Navy's littoral combat ship but both one, the other one looks more like a ship:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/US_Navy_090928-N-7241L-232..._%28cropped%29.jpg


Back on subject, we definitely need another Enterprise, that's a given, and I think it will be cool to have modern day battles as the names of some ships in addition to the old classic ones

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-06-15 11:08:47 and read 15035 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
Woah woah woah... is that a spaceship?

That's a Littoral combat ship - a pretty new concept. It's a combination of assault transport and a frigate, meant for coastal waters and rather stealthy to boot.

By the way, the Independence Class ships scheduled are to be named:

USS Independence (LCS-2)
USS Coronado (LCS-4)
USS Jackson (LCS-6)
USS Montgomery (LCS-8)
USS Gabrielle Giffords (LCS-10)
USS Omaha (LCS-12)

Once again, we are naming a ship after a junior politician who's only claim to fame is that she got shot. Sorry, but if that's all it takes, why don't people like Larry Flynt, Dimebag Darrell, and Notorious B.I.G. get their own ships? Why are politicians considered to be more worthy than them, when people generally feel that politicians are scumbags less trustworthy than used car salesmen, lobbyists, lawyers and just about everyone else?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/151460/Re...y-Ethics-Members-Congress-Low.aspx

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: SmittyOne
Posted 2012-06-15 11:30:16 and read 15020 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):
why don't people like Larry Flynt, Dimebag Darrell, and Notorious B.I.G. get their own ships?

A.net quote of the week. I couldn't agree more.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-06-15 11:32:41 and read 15022 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
Woah woah woah... is that a spaceship?

It's a trimaran. Hawaiians figured it out a while ago.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: srbmod
Posted 2012-06-15 11:32:45 and read 15022 times.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 8):
Ranger
Enterprise
Constellation
South Carolina (hey, what can I say, I'm partial &nbsp Wink
Saratoga
Yorktown
Lexington
Hornet

I think that the naming convention on aircraft carriers ought to be relevant to the Revolutionary War or to the earliest ships of the US Navy, as there have been carriers in the past whose names have a connection to the Revolutionary War or the early ships of the US Navy. There's already a Nimitz-class carrier the USS George Washington. Names like the USS Enterprise, the USS Constellation, the USS Saratoga, the USS Hornet and the USS Yorktown would be better than more contemporary names. What about a USS President, a USS Congress, and a USS United States names that graced three of the first six ships of the US Navy (The USS Constitution was one of those ships, along with the USS Chesapeake and the USS Constellation.)?

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: MD-90
Posted 2012-06-15 11:54:55 and read 15013 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):
USS Gabrielle Giffords (LCS-10

That's just pathetic.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: KPDX
Posted 2012-06-15 12:04:27 and read 15530 times.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 24):
That's just pathetic.

     

I just laughed out loud. Absolutely ridiculous...   

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-06-15 12:36:36 and read 15503 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):
Sorry, but if that's all it takes, why don't people like Larry Flynt, Dimebag Darrell, and Notorious B.I.G. get their own ships?

     

USS Larry Flynt? I like it. Superfly would LOVE it.   But what class would it have to be?

USS Notorious B.I.G. would have to be an aircraft carrier.

  

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: fr8mech
Posted 2012-06-15 12:39:53 and read 15689 times.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 24):
That's just pathetic.

I wouldn't call it pathetic, I'd call it inappropriate.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: srbmod
Posted 2012-06-15 13:09:14 and read 15682 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
USS Larry Flynt? I like it. Superfly would LOVE it.   But what class would it have to be?

The "Hustler" Class    Make it some sort of spy ship that gets put on operations that are barely legal........

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):
USS Gabrielle Giffords (LCS-10)

If you're going to name a ship after a politician, at least name it after one that has some connection to the US Navy beyond their husband. At least with some other controversial ship names like the USS Cesar Chavez and the USS John P. Murtha, Chavez served in the Navy and Murtha was in the Marines (Mostly in the reserves and retired as a Colonel.).

There are ships like the USS John C. Stennis and USS Carl Vinson, named after politicians who played major roles in the history of the US Navy (Vinson helped create the acts prior to WWII that build the Navy up and that helped the US in WWII. Stennis is considered to be the "Father of the Modern Navy".). Both Senator Stennis and Representative Vinson were worthy of having ships named in their honor.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: fridgmus
Posted 2012-06-15 13:13:32 and read 15669 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
USS Larry Flynt? I like it. Superfly would LOVE it.   But what class would it have to be?

You have to ask?......LOW CLASS!!!

Gee, I even crack my own self up!!!   

F

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: fr8mech
Posted 2012-06-15 13:16:34 and read 15655 times.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 28):
The "Hustler" Class Make it some sort of spy ship that gets put on operations that are barely legal........

Outstanding.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 28):
Both Senator Stennis and Representative Vinson were worthy of having ships named in their honor.

Carriers? Capital Ships? I'm not sure.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: SmittyOne
Posted 2012-06-15 14:48:32 and read 15617 times.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 30):
Carriers? Capital Ships? I'm not sure.

Prior to / during WW2 they would have rated a Destroyer or Destroyer Escort at best!

[Edited 2012-06-15 14:54:54]

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: dl021
Posted 2012-06-15 16:03:00 and read 15584 times.

I agree that they deserved ships...but those names led the way to further politicization of the naming of capital ships (in today's navy those are nuclear vessels, carrier and submarine) and a bastardization of the existing process...to the detriment of morale and well being of the Navy.

Everyone would be proud to serve on a vessel named after a great battle, or a known hero (you do know that the sailors onboard the Monsoor are going to consider what they have to live up to, right?) ...or even a state or capitol....but putting these men up with the founding fathers or the savior of the union (and like him or not Lincoln was certainly that... Ad who reallydiskikes Lincoln?) is pure politics and favor paying. It started a naming contest between parties.

Let the Navy get back to its traditions and tend to the morale of its sailors.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2012-06-15 16:59:20 and read 15593 times.

What about the USS Winston S. Churchill (DDG-81)?
Ok, his mother was American (but AFAIK became British citizen as it was compulsory back then when she married her British husband) and he HAD a connection with the navy, albeit the Royal one (during WW1 he was First Lord of the Admiralty, but resigned, and went to command an infantry battalion in the trenches of the Western Front, after the Gallipoli debacle).

Jan

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: SmittyOne
Posted 2012-06-15 17:51:16 and read 15546 times.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 31):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 33):

What about the USS Winston S. Churchill (DDG-81)?
Ok, his mother was American (but AFAIK became British citizen as it was compulsory back then when she married her British husband) and he HAD a connection with the navy, albeit the Royal one (during WW1 he was First Lord of the Admiralty, but resigned, and went to command an infantry battalion in the trenches of the Western Front, after the Gallipoli debacle).

Jan

Jan, I think your average sailor can understand the significance of Sir Winston Churchill in American/world history. Plus by the time they named the ship he'd been dead a long time!

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: KiwiRob
Posted 2012-06-15 23:54:13 and read 15494 times.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 33):
What about the USS Winston S. Churchill (DDG-81)?

I think the average sailor would be pretty happy serving on a ship named after Churchill, Winston had guts, he was a soldier and a great leader.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2012-06-16 02:58:36 and read 15483 times.

I´ve got nothing against Churchill, quite the opposite! He is my favourite 20th century politician. He has made mistakes, but he was one of the VERY few politicians who did not just talk the talk but also did walk the walk. After all he was no stranger to physical danger.

Jan

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-06-16 07:55:31 and read 15382 times.

Quoting dl021 (Reply 32):
Ad who reallydiskikes Lincoln?

Vampires, apparently.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: 747400sp
Posted 2012-06-18 02:23:15 and read 15221 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
I also wish to express my disgust at the practice over the last few decades of naming our Navy's finest warships after politicians.

I agree, with morden politicians, but I glad that CVN 79, will be name the USS John F Kennady.


PS: If CVN 80 is name The USS Enterprise, then the Ford class, will be a lot cooler than the Nimitz class.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-06-18 05:24:05 and read 15166 times.

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 38):

I agree, with morden politicians, but I glad that CVN 79, will be name the USS John F Kennady.

Why? His most notable actions were starting the Vietnam War, Starting the Apollo project, bedding Marilyn Monroe, and being shot. Apollo was pretty cool, but we aren't exactly talking about George Washington level here.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: SmittyOne
Posted 2012-06-18 05:35:14 and read 15170 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
Why? His most notable actions were starting the Vietnam War, Starting the Apollo project, bedding Marilyn Monroe, and being shot. Apollo was pretty cool, but we aren't exactly talking about George Washington level here.

From what I've read his actions in the aftermath of the PT-109 sinking were pretty heroic. Perhaps not 'capital ship' worthy, but in contrast to most other modern presidents he certainly stands out. I feel the same way about George H.W. Bush.

Quoting Mir (Reply 37):
Vampires, apparently.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: AviRaider
Posted 2012-06-18 07:27:49 and read 15140 times.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 33):

He was made an Honorary Citizen in '60s and with his American blood, as it were, not to mention being America's closest Allied leader during WWII, I think it's appropriate.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: slider
Posted 2012-06-18 10:30:43 and read 15070 times.

Quoting dl021 (Reply 16):
Shughart and Gordon get supply ships while Ford and Carter get capital ships? What's that other than ignorant politics.

Good point---MOH winners should be recognized with namings.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):
USS Gabrielle Giffords (LCS-10)

You're kidding....totally inappropriate and ridiculous honor. She ought to voluntarily deny the naming if she had integrity about it, IMHO.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 28):
USS John P. Murtha, Chavez served in the Navy and Murtha was in the Marines (Mostly in the reserves and retired as a Colonel.).

Murtha also backstabbed the military and isn't deserving of having a garbage scow named for him, IMHO.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-06-18 10:40:43 and read 15067 times.

Quoting slider (Reply 42):
Good point---MOH winners should be recognized with namings.

They can name frigates and cruisers after them, but the Capital Ships should be reserved for something special and enduring.

As someone mentioned above, every single person aboard the ship should be proud of its namesake, be it the name of a battle or a value (Enterprise, Independence). If it's named after a politician, in guarantees that half the crew thinks the ship is named after an ass.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: LMP737
Posted 2012-06-19 08:17:45 and read 14395 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
Why? His most notable actions were starting the Vietnam War,



I think that tag belongs to LBJ. Eisenhower was the one who initially sent advisers to South Vietnam. When JFK was assassinated there were around 16000 US troops there. Two years latter there were almost 200K and Johnson had radically escalated the war.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: wvsuperhornet
Posted 2012-06-23 01:02:46 and read 13771 times.

I think we need to name it the USS "not sure why this post is in the aviation section of this forum" ?

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: AirRyan
Posted 2012-06-23 01:18:33 and read 13787 times.

How about the USS FunnyMoney? How can we spend $40B+ developing the Ford class carrier to replace the Nimitz class, when for that price we could have just bought 5 more Nimitz class carriers? Ford class doesn't do anything the Nimitz for all practical purposes cannot.

LHA-6 America is a complete 2nd class of light carrier for the Navy, too. If you take the amphibious well deck out of an amphibious assault ship, all you have left is a modern WWII straight deck carrier. Smooth move. Next thing you know we'll fly $70m+engines V-22 and $125m F-35B's off it, it'll be the most expensive ship to go in the first day of any engagement with an even half-way decent opposing Navy.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: rwessel
Posted 2012-06-23 09:09:18 and read 13689 times.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 46):
How about the USS FunnyMoney? How can we spend $40B+ developing the Ford class carrier to replace the Nimitz class, when for that price we could have just bought 5 more Nimitz class carriers? Ford class doesn't do anything the Nimitz for all practical purposes cannot.

The estimates are thet they've spent about $5B in R&D and the Ford will cost ~$9B on top of that to build. Presumably the follow-on ships will be in a similar ballpark. So the unit cost is not all that different from the Nimitz's, but they've revamped almost all the systems, from the reactors to the catapults, and considerably increased automation (the Fords will require 1,000 fewer crew).

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: AirRyan
Posted 2012-06-23 16:08:40 and read 13558 times.

The argument is that the Ford class carrier will save money over a 50 year period with some of it's new efficiencies and less required manpower. This is a helluva big guesstimate at best. The fact of the matter is with modern cruise missiles, we would rather benefit from more Nimitz and than any new Ford class carriers in any naval engagement.

Quote:

The Navy estimates that each Ford-class carrier will cost $27 billion to build and then operate and maintain for 50 years, $5 billion less than its Nimitz-class predecessors, even after the rising costs.
Quote:

The combined cost of three Ford-class carriers would be $42.5 billion, according to the Pentagon’s Selected Acquisition Report published in December.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...on-carriers-in-china-s-sights.html

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: ebj1248650
Posted 2012-06-26 09:31:20 and read 13128 times.

Would love to see a new carrier named Yorktown, in honor of the carrier and crew who served so gallantly in the Pacific during WWII.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: kanban
Posted 2012-06-26 09:42:58 and read 13134 times.

Why name them at all? just go with the numbers (CVN80).. heck half the time the number identity is used anyway.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: sunking737
Posted 2012-06-26 20:59:01 and read 13022 times.

How about another U.S.S. Langley?? After all she was CV 1, and CVL 27

[Edited 2012-06-26 21:01:35]

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: LMP737
Posted 2012-06-27 09:47:53 and read 12936 times.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 48):
The fact of the matter is with modern cruise missiles, we would rather benefit from more Nimitz and than any new Ford class carriers in any naval engagement.

Cruise missiles are nice but they cannot provide air cover for the fleet, provide close air support for troops on the ground against a manuvering enemy, investigate surface contacts, hunt subs etc. If the line of thought is the design we have is good enough then we would still be producing Forrestal class carriers

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: AviRaider
Posted 2012-06-27 11:53:44 and read 12892 times.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 52):
Cruise missiles are nice but they cannot provide air cover for the fleet, provide close air support for troops on the ground against a manuvering enemy, investigate surface contacts, hunt subs etc. If the line of thought is the design we have is good enough then we would still be producing Forrestal class carriers

I read it as he is referring to cruise missiles being used against our carriers and how it would be better to have strength in numbers (i.e. more Nimitz carriers).

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: sprout5199
Posted 2012-06-27 13:21:11 and read 12883 times.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 8):
Yorktown

Yorktown was a Tico class CG but was decommed due to her having the twin armed missle launcher vs VLS.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):
By the way, the Independence Class ships scheduled are to be named:

Why put her name in that class? The rest are named for cities.
Enterprise is a great name. It needs to live on as a carrier.

They need to name sub after fish, Seawolf was a good start, but politics raise its ugly head.

They also need to name another ship the USS Flatley, as I served onboard the first Flatdog, and want to see the name live on.

Dan in Jupiter

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-06-28 05:51:32 and read 12769 times.

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 54):

Yorktown was a Tico class CG but was decommed due to her having the twin armed missle launcher vs VLS.

I know, which is why the USN needs a new Yorktown, preferably a CVN. Two proud CVs carried that name with distinction and I think it'd be fitting for there to be a third.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: LMP737
Posted 2012-06-28 12:49:56 and read 12697 times.

Quoting AviRaider (Reply 53):
I read it as he is referring to cruise missiles being used against our carriers and how it would be better to have strength in numbers (i.e. more Nimitz carriers).

I'm refering to the line in the article "Dispatching more jets from a carrier doesn’t provide a tactical advantage in an age of precision-guided weapons and Tomahawk cruise missiles fired from submarines, according to Norman Polmar, a naval analyst and author who has been a consultant to secretaries of the Navy."

Strengh in numbers only works if you have more of them. What the navy has done up until this point is replace carriers on a one for one bases. Congress has also mandated that carrier strength has to be at a certain level. You also have to take into consideration that the Ford class will be more survivable.

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 54):
They also need to name another ship the USS Flatley, as I served onboard the first Flatdog, and want to see the name live on.

That's what I find so maddening about naming a ship after Gabrielle Giffords. Her only accomplishment was getting shot by a lunatic.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-06-28 14:03:46 and read 12674 times.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 56):
That's what I find so maddening about naming a ship after Gabrielle Giffords. Her only accomplishment was getting shot by a lunatic.

Well if she gets a ship because she got shot, I propose we name a ship the USS Tupac.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Oroka
Posted 2012-12-01 20:53:21 and read 9094 times.

Well folks it happened.

With the decommissioning of the CVN-65 USS Enterprise, it has been announced that the CVN-80 will carry the name Enterprise!


Capt. Picard: Let's make sure history never forgets... the name..."Enterprise"!  http://www.dailypress.com/news/break...n-breaking-20121201,0,764621.story

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: silentbob
Posted 2012-12-02 00:01:29 and read 8989 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
USS Notorious B.I.G. would have to be an aircraft carrier.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 57):
Well if she gets a ship because she got shot, I propose we name a ship the USS Tupac.

So, B.I.G in the Atlantic fleet and Tupac in the Pacific? we certainly couldn't have them anywhere near each other.

Quoting Oroka (Reply 58):
With the decommissioning of the CVN-65 USS Enterprise, it has been announced that the CVN-80 will carry the name Enterprise!

Fantastic news

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: ThePointblank
Posted 2012-12-02 00:40:40 and read 8976 times.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 48):
The argument is that the Ford class carrier will save money over a 50 year period with some of it's new efficiencies and less required manpower. This is a helluva big guesstimate at best. The fact of the matter is with modern cruise missiles, we would rather benefit from more Nimitz and than any new Ford class carriers in any naval engagement.

A lot of new systems and redesign are involved with the Ford class carriers; namely the following:
- redesign of the flight deck layout to handle 4 simultaneous launches, instead of 3 on Nimitz, and to improve efficiency (the island is moved back to help create a centralized aircraft re-arming and fueling area)
- introduction of an automated magazine management system where robots move ordinance from the magazines up to the aircraft arming areas
- new nuclear reactor (smaller and 3 times more powerful than the Nimitz), which in the future will allow for more electronic upgrades and possibly directed energy weapons. Most important as the current Nimitz class carriers' power generation capabilities is stretched pretty thin with all of the electronics being stuffed into them, and planning for future electronics growth is required
- EMLAS (Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System). Most important as it will allow the Ford class carriers to launch UAV's as the minimum weight limit of the steam catapults is above the weight of all UAVs, and EMLAS allows for a smoother launch, reducing stress on aircraft, meaning longer service lives
- Advanced Arresting Gear (AAG). Allows for recovery of UAV's (the current hydraulic system can't recover UAV's), and allows for smoother aircraft recoveries

Also, crew sizes have shrunk; the current Nimitz requires a crew and aviation personnel size of close to 6,000 people. The Ford's require 4,600 personnel.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: AirRyan
Posted 2012-12-02 10:44:30 and read 8740 times.

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 60):
Also, crew sizes have shrunk; the current Nimitz requires a crew and aviation personnel size of close to 6,000 people. The Ford's require 4,600 personnel.

Maybe so, just a lot of money to spend when you have budget woes and half-assed carrier air wings (thanks Bowed-WIng!,) as we do. And Ford for the entire class? He should have been lucky to get a single ship; stupid decisions like that that our modern Navy likes to make.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: ThePointblank
Posted 2012-12-02 11:17:15 and read 8735 times.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 61):
Maybe so, just a lot of money to spend when you have budget woes and half-assed carrier air wings (thanks Bowed-WIng!,) as we do. And Ford for the entire class? He should have been lucky to get a single ship; stupid decisions like that that our modern Navy likes to make.

The Ford's design life span is 94 years; these carriers will be in service for a VERY long time.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-12-02 11:42:21 and read 8718 times.

Quoting Oroka (Reply 58):
With the decommissioning of the CVN-65 USS Enterprise, it has been announced that the CVN-80 will carry the name Enterprise!

Excellent news indeed.

Now we need a Lexington, a Saratoga, and a Yorktown.

I was thinking of Hornet as well, but I have to say that even back in the 40s that name must have seemed just a little whimsical next to the 'greats'.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-12-02 13:28:41 and read 8639 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 63):


I was thinking of Hornet as well, but I have to say that even back in the 40s that name must have seemed just a little whimsical next to the 'greats'.

Not really considering the lineage of the name Hornet. 8 ships have held the name, most famously a sloop with that name that fought in the Revolutionary War and also one that fought in the War of 1812. Famously there was this political cartoon with John Bull complaining about being stung by the Hornets and Wasps of the USN.



The dialogue reads:

Wasp: "You'll bridge the Atlantic, will you? O, then you shall have a Bane to your bridge, friend Johnny."
John Bull: "Are those your Wasps and Hornets!!! O! I am Hull'd already."
Hornet: "How come on your Copper bottom of Bombay? Here is something for you between Wind and Water."

I'd say the name is one of the greats, whimsical or not.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: 76794p
Posted 2012-12-02 14:21:20 and read 8586 times.

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 62):

The Ford's design life span is 94 years; these carriers will be in service for a VERY long time.

I think they mean the life span of the class, not one CVN. The expected life span will be fifty years, just like CVN-65 and the Nimitz class. This means that from when CVN-78 is commissioned until the last one is planned to be decommissioned in 2110.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: BigJKU
Posted 2012-12-02 14:51:53 and read 8564 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 63):
Now we need a Lexington, a Saratoga, and a Yorktown.

I was thinking of Hornet as well, but I have to say that even back in the 40s that name must have seemed just a little whimsical next to the 'greats'.

Lex, Sara, Yorktown I agree with. I am iffy on Hornet but think that United States and Constellation need to be in there first. I would also go for another Midway before another Hornet I think.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-12-02 16:12:40 and read 8522 times.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 64):
Not really considering the lineage of the name Hornet. 8 ships have held the name, most famously a sloop with that name that fought in the Revolutionary War and also one that fought in the War of 1812.

I wasn't aware of that lineage, thanks.

There are 10 ships planned. Here are my suggestions (assuming the first 2 are too late to change):

CVN-78 Gerald R Ford
CVN-79 John F Kennedy
CVN-80 Enterprise
CVN-81 Lexington
CVN-82 Saratoga
CVN-83 Midway
CVN-84 Leyte
CVN-85 Bunker Hill
CVN-86 Normandy
CVN-87 Guadalcanal

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Geezer
Posted 2012-12-02 22:20:54 and read 8375 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
Why? His most notable actions were starting the Vietnam War, Starting the Apollo project, bedding Marilyn Monroe, and being shot. Apollo was pretty cool, but we aren't exactly talking about George Washington level here.

May I remind you that he backed Kruschev down during the Cuban missile crises ? That act alone makes him deserving of having 5 carriers named after him !

Quoting slider (Reply 42):
Murtha also backstabbed the military and isn't deserving of having a garbage scow named for him, IMHO.

This one is even WORSE than naming one for Giffords; Anyone ever been to Johnstown, Pa. ? The U.S. Government spent about 500 TONS of money on that dinky, po-dunk little airport, ( which is completely unneeded ), just so that fat-ass PUKE could fly home every Friday afternoon, and not have to land clear over in Pittsburgh or Harrisburg. And NOW they have the gall to want a SHIP named after him ? ( Better name one after Bernie Madoff too ! ) ( As both were of very similar "ilk" )

I'll tell you this much; If Jerry Ford could just "come back to life for 5 minutes, HE would say, name that sucker ENTERPRISE ! Period ! He was that kind of guy. I hope like hell they do name the thing "Big E", but if they don't, at least it's not like it's gonna be named after some half-ass "pinhead".........( like some some poor submarine )

Charley

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Zkpilot
Posted 2012-12-03 02:27:50 and read 8321 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):

Why? His most notable actions were starting the Vietnam War, Starting the Apollo project, bedding Marilyn Monroe, and being shot. Apollo was pretty cool, but we aren't exactly talking about George Washington level here.

He didn't start it.
He stood up to the Soviets during the Cuban Missile Crisis (closest even to WWIII) and in other ways (Berlin etc),
and yes he had a strong naval service during WWII.
Had he not been assasinated then it is quite possible that America would be a better place today (less partisan for one).
The fact that he was assassinated does tend to add a somewhat special-ness to his presidency so yes JFK is suitable.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-12-03 06:06:19 and read 8255 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 67):

CVN-84Leyte
CVN-85Bunker Hill
CVN-86Normandy

Those names are currently born by Ticos (albeit CG-55 is Leyte Gulf, not Leyte - how long they'll be around is anyone's guess at this point what with the previous noise made about early retirement of the class. If I had my druthers:


CVN-78 Gerald R. Ford
CVN-79 John F Kennedy
CVN-80 Enterprise
CVN-81 Lexington
CVN-82 Yorktown
CVN-83 Ranger (another one of the greats in terms of naming tradition)
CVN-84 Intrepid
CVN-85 Hornet
CVN-86 Kitty Hawk
CVN-87 Midway

[Edited 2012-12-03 06:06:55]

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-12-03 06:11:32 and read 8249 times.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 70):
Those names are currently born by Ticos (albeit CG-55 is Leyte Gulf, not Leyte - how long they'll be around is anyone's guess at this point what with the previous noise made about early retirement of the class.

I was aware of that but feel they deserve an upgrade.  
Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 70):
CVN-78 Gerald R. Ford
CVN-79 John F Kennedy
CVN-80 Enterprise
CVN-81 Lexington
CVN-82 Yorktown
CVN-83 Ranger (another one of the greats in terms of naming tradition)
CVN-84 Intrepid
CVN-85 Hornet
CVN-86 Kitty Hawk
CVN-87 Midway

I'm curious why you left out Saratoga.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: BigJKU
Posted 2012-12-03 06:35:07 and read 8237 times.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 70):
CVN-78 Gerald R. Ford
CVN-79 John F Kennedy
CVN-80 Enterprise
CVN-81 Lexington
CVN-82 Yorktown
CVN-83 Ranger (another one of the greats in terms of naming tradition)
CVN-84 Intrepid
CVN-85 Hornet
CVN-86 Kitty Hawk
CVN-87 Midway

Really if you could make plans right now I would largely agree with that list but would drop Kitty Hawk and Ranger for United States and America and then rename the America Class ships something more suitable for amphibious ships (after a battle of some sort). America is just a good name for a carrier in my view if you are going to use it at all. United States was one of the original 6 frigates of the US Navy and is more deserving of a spot than Kitty Hawk and Ranger in my view as well. I would also high consider dropping Intrepid for Nimitz as his honor was fully and well deserved.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-12-03 06:42:31 and read 8241 times.

Quoting BigJKU (Reply 72):
would drop Kitty Hawk and Ranger for United States and America

I disagree. You never want to name a warship with such a grandiose name. Imagine the the propaganda value if an enemy could claim "We destroyed the United States".

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-12-03 07:32:39 and read 8216 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 71):

I'm curious why you left out Saratoga.

Because I hadn't had my coffee yet and made an oopsie   Sub out Midway for Saratoga.

Quoting BigJKU (Reply 72):

Really if you could make plans right now I would largely agree with that list but would drop Kitty Hawk and Ranger for United States and America and then rename the America Class ships something more suitable for amphibious ships (after a battle of some sort). America is just a good name for a carrier in my view if you are going to use it at all. United States was one of the original 6 frigates of the US Navy and is more deserving of a spot than Kitty Hawk and Ranger in my view as well. I would also high consider dropping Intrepid for Nimitz as his honor was fully and well deserved.

I'm at the point where I'm fine with there not being a USS United States. Aside from being one of the original six frigates, there's not been a ship to bear the name since then. There was a Lexington class battlecruiser that was going to have the name, but it got cancelled and scrapped. Then there was CVA-58, then CVN-75. If the third time wasn't the charm it just wasn't meant to be. Beyond that, simply having been one of the original six doesn't mean the name's particularly worth carrying on - after all, imagine the brouhaha now to a ship named USS Congress!

[Edited 2012-12-03 07:40:03]

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: Dreadnought
Posted 2012-12-03 08:31:24 and read 8183 times.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 74):
There was a Lexington class battlecruiser that was going to have the name, but it got cancelled and scrapped.

It didn't get scrapped - It was converted into the CV-2 Lexington, along with her sistership Saratoga, which is why the Lex and Sara were much, much larger and heavier than any other US aircraft carrier until after WWII, because they were using huge battlecruiser hulls

Displacements
Lexington CV-2: 36,000 tons (48,000 at full load)
Yorktown class CV-4,5,6 - 20,000 tons (26,000 at full load)
Essex Class 27,000 tons (36,000 at full load)

The Lexingtons were huge, comparatively speaking.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 74):
Beyond that, simply having been one of the original six doesn't mean the name's particularly worth carrying on - after all, imagine the brouhaha now to a ship named USS Congress!

Any navy ship so named would quickly have the honor of being the first ship scuttled by her crew on its maiden voyage.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: garnetpalmetto
Posted 2012-12-03 09:49:03 and read 8137 times.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 75):

It didn't get scrapped - It was converted into the CV-2 Lexington, along with her sistership Saratoga, which is why the Lex and Sara were much, much larger and heavier than any other US aircraft carrier until after WWII, because they were using huge battlecruiser hulls

I think you may be confusing what I'm saying, Dreadnought. Yes, the USS Lexington (CV-2) was converted from USS Lexington (CC-1) and USS Saratoga (CV-3) was converted from USS Saratoga (CC-3). However, the other Lexington class battlecruisers under construction - Constellation (CC-2), Ranger (CC-4), Constitution (CC-5), and United States (CC-6) were all cancelled and scrapped in various stages of completion ( between 4% (Ranger) and 22.7% (Constellation)) - the point I was making was that it seems that the Navy has no luck at all with actually getting a ship with the name United States in the water and that there's only been one USN ship to bear the name, thus I'm OK with there not being one in the near future.

[Edited 2012-12-03 09:50:22]

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: rwessel
Posted 2012-12-03 22:44:46 and read 7933 times.

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 60):
- new nuclear reactor (smaller and 3 times more powerful than the Nimitz), which in the future will allow for more electronic upgrades and possibly directed energy weapons. Most important as the current Nimitz class carriers' power generation capabilities is stretched pretty thin with all of the electronics being stuffed into them, and planning for future electronics growth is required

I believe the electrical output of the reactors has been tripled (IOW, bigger turbine/generator sets hung off the steam end). The total power output of the reactors appears to not have increased at all from the published figures, or more likely, will be just up just a bit. The substantial majority of power from the reactors goes to propulsion.

Topic: RE: Petition To Name CVN-80 The USS Enterprise
Username: gigneil
Posted 2012-12-04 21:15:09 and read 7708 times.

I am always all for having ships of the line named Enterprise - if we ever set sail for another solar system, that vessel better be named Enterprise  

NS


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