Sponsor Message:
Military Aviation & Space Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
"Secretive" Flight Test For A400 Engine Next Week  
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9029 times:

According to this article from Forbes. If correct, why all the drama? Nothing to lose now by testing it "in the open" and inviting the press. If the wraps are off this "secret" flight test, then the results will likely find their way to the media as well.

http://www.forbes.com/reuters/feeds/...RTRIDST_0_EADS-A400M-ANALYSIS.html

Quote:
PARIS, Dec 12 (Reuters) - Europe's biggest military plane project, fraught with delays and in-fighting, faces a critical test as the A400M's mammoth turbo prop engine prepares for a secretive flight next week from a quiet corner of east England.
Coming on the heels of UK defence cuts, the operation is key for the credibility of Airbus parent EADS as it tries to renegotiate a loss-making 20 billion euro contract for the A400M and project itself as a reliable global defence supplier.
The West's biggest turbo prop was developed by a group of engine makers assembled to keep high-tech jobs inside Europe, overriding the planemaker's preference for an imported engine.



Quote:
The engine tests are being kept under wraps following months of tensions over delivery delays between Airbus Military, its engine makers and some of the seven European NATO nations behind the 25-year-old project to build a new heavy transporter.

But industry sources say the plane being used for the test, a modified C-130 transporter, should make its first flight with a Europrop TP400-D6 engine next week depending on the weather.
The test will be carried out by replacing one of the C-130's own engines with the larger new engine and taking it aloft.
EADS and Airbus Military declined to comment.



Quote:
Even the choice of plane used for testing has been criticised after part of the C-130 melted in ground tests.
"It is way too small. They should have used an A340," a senior industry official said, referring to the large Airbus jet.
POLITICAL FALLOUT
Industry analysts said the disputes had shown the limits of of treating big military contracts like commercial jet deals.
In a bid to develop Europe's own capacity for dropping troops into combat zones without repeating the cost overruns, delays and compromise surrounding the Eurofighter; A400M nations enforced a commercial contract with penalties for late delivery.
But EADS says its efforts to absorb risk were stymied by a political decision to involve all of Europe's key engine makers. It had wanted an engine from Pratt & Whitney Canada.




"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5609 posts, RR: 45
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8885 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Lumberton (Thread starter):
"It is way too small. They should have used an A340," a senior industry official said

Now that would be an interesting engineering challenge.. with a diameter approximately twice that of the Trent 500 on the A346... keen to see how they might handle that(Keesje care to use your CAD skills and gice us an idea?).
Perhaps the logical, if not politically acceptable, test bed would have been an AN-22*

Cheers


* or the surviving AN-70 prototype but that might be a sore point with some!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineFridgmus From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1441 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8837 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Saw a picture with the A-400 engine on a C-130 once. Absolutely dwarfed the Herc. Looked pretty cool though. Hope it works out. Would love to see an A-400 in USAF livery!

Sorry, I don't have the picture. Can't seem to find it! Wish I did!



The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5609 posts, RR: 45
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8812 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Fridgmus (Reply 2):
Sorry, I don't have the picture.

Here you go....

http://www.airbusmilitary.com/images/1stftbrun.jpg
Courtesy www.airbusmilitary.com

Cheers



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3613 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 8526 times:

With so much pressure, tensions and accumulated delays for the first flight of this engine, it's no wonder the engine makers are trying to keep it as quiet and discrete as possible.

I don't want to reopen that same old debate, but as a citizen from one of the countries involved in the program, it is just an outrage that politicians keep having their say on who is going to do what on a military program despite the differing manufacturers' expert opinion, and then on top of that demand guarantees of performance and on time delivery.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 8429 times:

I wonder how secret a test of a 12 k hp engine in the east of England can be. It will probably be audible from one side of it to the other. Much like when it was overflown by B-36s. Just a question of how much the ground will shake.

User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 8360 times:



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 1):
Perhaps the logical, if not politically acceptable, test bed would have been an AN-22*

If tested on an A340 it should have been placed ahead of the wing iso under it. They tested the big A380 RR trents also on the A340..

Agree howver the most suitable test platform would have been the Antei.



I would have been better dimensioned for the vibrations, hot outlet and other dynamics.

Structural mods would be required for the TP400s torque.


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4696 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8160 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
Agree howver the most suitable test platform would have been the Antei.

I kind of thought the Antonov An-70 would be a better fit.....

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Oleg V. Belyakov
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Oleg V. Belyakov


.....but could that present more software glitches?



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3613 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8114 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
the most suitable test platform would have been the Antei.



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 7):
I kind of thought the Antonov An-70 would be a better fit.....

Either of those would have been great. But getting a hand on one of these for testing purposes might be close to impossible...

The few An-70 still flying (only one?) are/is in the hands of Antonov who is not about to lend it to a direct competitor of the very same aircraft.
The An-22 are all flying for the Russian AF I believe, and current tensions between Russia and the NATO might not create ideal conditions for them to lease out an Antei for the benefit of a 'western' military program.

And although that's an even longer stretch, I really wish EADS would have teamed up with Antonov for the A400...



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineFridgmus From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1441 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8099 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 3):
Here you go....

Thanks SteathZ!  bigthumbsup  Does that look cool or what!!!



The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12061 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7748 times:

Nothing wrong with using the C-130 flight tests. But, there is something wrong with trying to hide the tests from the public. Makes you think they are afraid of something and have something to hide.

User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7704 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
Makes you think they are afraid of something and have something to hide.

Only if it fails....



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3613 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7692 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
Makes you think they are afraid of something and have something to hide.

They hardly need any more bad publicity, especially seeing how badly speculative those things get, affecting even marketshares.

That said, it is true that they don't exhale of confidence over there...



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7419 times:

Well the Herc with TP400 has flown today. Hopefully moving the program forward again..

User currently offlineTGIF From Sweden, joined Apr 2008, 276 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7288 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 13):
Well the Herc with TP400 has flown today. Hopefully moving the program forward again..

 checkmark 
There's some info and nice pictures here: http://www.airbusmilitary.com/press.html


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8643 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7287 times:



Quoting TGIF (Reply 14):

And another thread started on it ....http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/100644/



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineTGIF From Sweden, joined Apr 2008, 276 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7255 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 15):

Sorry, typing before thinking... Thanks for the heads up!


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7219 times:



Quoting Francoflier (Reply 8):
And although that's an even longer stretch, I really wish EADS would have teamed up with Antonov for the A400...

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 
Could not agree more !
Actually the initial plan of the Germans was to team up with Antonov and make a joint development ,but as usual , the big European consensus-machinery took over and brought all kinds of "logical "partners into the A400M project. It would have been cheaper and much more efficient to swallow Euro-pride and get things done properly with Antonov.
I don't say the AN-70 in it's actual conception is ideal-but it would have been a much more appropriate testbed for further enhancements. Lets face it and give the Russian engineers some credit..it would have been a terrific plane,combining EADS and Antonov skills into one project.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 20 hours ago) and read 6977 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 17):
Lets face it and give the Russian engineers some credit

I never denied the skills / creativity of Russian / Oekraienian engineers. These days they are spread out over several industries and countries. The best got jobs at Boeing and Airbus too.

Fact is the An-70 itself is still a prototype. 2 crashed. The engines of the An-70 would probably not be a solution but probably a new complication.

For TP400 testing it the An-70 would be an unlikely platform. Antie: there are more and I guess available via Antonov.


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6793 times:

An-70 is a deadbeat and jobprotection of the Airbus owners countries are important.

User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3475 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6624 times:

How could you carry out a "secretive test flight" from Cambridge Airport ?

Any plane taking off lines up on the runway but a few yards from a main road, in full view of the cars driving past; all there is in the way is a wire chain link fence; after take off the flight path is right over the city.

The only way in which this flight could be considered "secretive" would be if the media wasn't invited along for a free buffet.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic "Secretive" Flight Test For A400 Engine Next Week
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Military aviation related posts only!
  • Not military related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Duxford Next Week posted Mon Jul 7 2008 00:39:49 by AirMalta
A400 Engine Selection posted Sat Aug 25 2007 22:26:10 by Lumberton
ISS Crew Swapout Next Week posted Mon Sep 26 2005 17:05:56 by SATL382G
ABL Starts Flight Test Program posted Mon Dec 6 2004 17:46:32 by SATL382G
AF1 At Toledo Air Show Next Week posted Sat Aug 21 2004 10:17:50 by Ouboy79
New French "AF One" For Nicolas Sarkozy posted Fri Jun 13 2008 03:41:20 by Marcus380
Fate Of "last" (?) 764, Build As E-10 For Usaf? posted Mon Mar 17 2008 12:32:30 by Kaitak
"new" C130 For The Belgium Airforce posted Tue Apr 10 2007 19:47:35 by HeliflyerPDC
Why No "Indian" Name For Huey Cobra? posted Tue Dec 19 2006 06:43:08 by BHMBAGLOCK
Aidc Ching Kuo - A Twin Engine "Falcon?" posted Sun Sep 3 2006 10:27:57 by DEVILFISH
A400M Flight Test Thread posted Sat Jan 8 2011 11:27:46 by moderators
Spacex Flight Test Thread posted Fri Aug 20 2010 15:43:21 by ZANL188
A400M Flight Test Prototypes posted Mon Jan 4 2010 08:48:13 by Keesje
A400M Flight Test Program posted Tue Dec 22 2009 05:12:18 by Kmz
Fantastic Dassault Rafale Flight Test Article posted Mon Nov 9 2009 19:06:40 by 2H4
House App Comm Funds VH-71; Full Vote Next Week posted Thu Jul 23 2009 15:20:48 by AirRyan
Re-engined E-8 To Begin Flight Test 17 Dec. 08 posted Sat Dec 6 2008 00:23:59 by KC135TopBoom
Leased Casas For A400 Delay posted Thu Oct 2 2008 04:38:49 by Columba
Duxford Next Week posted Mon Jul 7 2008 00:39:49 by AirMalta
A400 Engine Selection posted Sat Aug 25 2007 22:26:10 by Lumberton

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format