GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12701 posts, RR: 80 Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10945 times:
Though as you say, Germany is not the only F-4 operator to do a serious upgrade, I'd rate their APG-65/AMRAAM missile equipped ones as the most advanced.
EBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10889 times:
Quoting GDB (Reply 1): Though as you say, Germany is not the only F-4 operator to do a serious upgrade, I'd rate their APG-65/AMRAAM missile equipped ones as the most advanced.
I thought Turkey had upgraded theirs as well. How do theirs compare with the German F-4Fs?
Connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3854 posts, RR: 13 Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10771 times:
Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 2): Quoting GDB (Reply 1):
Though as you say, Germany is not the only F-4 operator to do a serious upgrade, I'd rate their APG-65/AMRAAM missile equipped ones as the most advanced.
I thought Turkey had upgraded theirs as well. How do theirs compare with the German F-4Fs?
Me too. In fact, I thought the Turks got theirs close to the Phantom 2000 standard.
In 1995, the Turkish government signed an agreement with IAI of Israel to update about 54 of Turkey's F-4Es. The update program included structural strengthening and an avionics improvement package similar to the Israeli Phantom 2000 configuration, but with some changes as per Turkish requirements, leading to the designation of "Phantom 2020". As with Israeli Phantom 2000s, Turkish Phantom 2020s have the ability to carry the big Popeye ASM, as that weapon is being acquired by the Turks.
There were some political delays in implementing the update program, but the first Phantom 2020 flew in 1999. In that same year, the THK issued a requirement for updating their RF-4Es as well. The THK hopes to keep their Phantoms in service until at least 2015.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11705 posts, RR: 52 Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10751 times:
I would think it is either the Israeli F-4Es or the JSDF F-4EJs are the most advanced Phantoms in the world, today. The Iranians have also upgraded the F-4D/Es and RF-4Es, but no one knows to what extent they have been modified.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12701 posts, RR: 80 Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10565 times:
I know the Japanese put the APG-66 radar and a host of other improvements into their F-4EJ's, but have they got AMRAAM capability or similar?
Certainly, the Turkish F-4's look better in the air to ground role than the German F-4's.
Hunterson From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 144 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 10401 times:
The IDFAF Phantom-2000 Kurnass must be the most advanced and heavily modified amongst all the other F-4 Phantoms around. Their radar systems and avionics were upgraded to incorporate equipment originally intended for the cancelled Lavy programme, and subsequently deployed on the F-16 I Sufa, and their weapon suite was also modified to include both the Popeye stand-off ASM and a whole family of domestically developed laser guided attack munitions. They also kept and upgraded their air-air capabilities with provision to carry Python-4 and Python-5 all-aspect dogfighting AAMs as well as their original Sparrows and Sidewinders ( ans possibly AMRAAMs ).
It is not entirely clear if the 50 Phantom-2000 Kurnasses brought up to this standard are still in "front-line" squadron service, but original plans laid down when the programme was initiated by the IDFAF in the mid-to -late 1990s envisaged them to remain in service until at least 2012.
My guess is that they are indeed still in service, probably in reserve squadrons which can be swiftly activated into front-line duties upon general mobilization just like other Israeli squadrons which still operate Kfir C-7s and A-4 Skyhawks.
BilgeRat From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 174 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 10346 times:
Re the Iranian Phantoms, a recent article in Combat Aircraft about the IRIAF had some interesting info. In summary:
The IRIAF has on strength 12 F-4D, 64 F-4E and 6 RF-4E.
Most of the IRIAF F-4s have recently been rebuilt/upgraded to extend their service life.
Like many other types used by the IRIAF they have been modifying the aircraft to use different weapons. In the case of the F-4s they have apparently been modified to use the Russian Kh-58 (AS-11 Kilter), the Chinese C802K-2 (as well as its indiginous version, the "Noor"), the Iranian Sattar-3 laser guided missile and Kite-2000 submunitions dispenser, as well as a range of electro-optically guided weapons based on the AGM-65 seeker heads and Mk.80 series warheads. The article also states the Iranians have tried to fit the R-27 and R-73 missiles to the F-4 without success and they continue to carry the AIM-7.
It's an interesting article, well worth reading (an F-14A with R-73 and helmet mounted sight, anyone?). Combat Aircraft magazine, Volume 8, number 6.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11705 posts, RR: 52 Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10002 times:
Quoting BilgeRat (Reply 8): The IRIAF has on strength 12 F-4D, 64 F-4E and 6 RF-4E.
Most of the IRIAF F-4s have recently been rebuilt/upgraded to extend their service life.
Thank you for the update on the Iranian F-4s, BilgeRat.
Jabs From Portugal, joined Feb 2007, 35 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9914 times:
The Turkish Phantom upgrade is called "Terminator 2020" it seems to focus more on the ground attack capabilities.
The Greek Phantom upgrade is called "Peace Icarus" and the Greeks say that's a 100% "ICE" (Improved Combat Efficiency), as the German F4F upgrade programme was called.
"Peace Icarus" also includes AIFF antennas.
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