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Boeing Sells 4 C-17 To Emirates  
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8707 times:

4 x C-17's to the Arabs.

Not many but I think a very welcome order at this point in time. Congratulations to Boeing.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSLO58161920090224

Also 12 C130J's. Price for the C-17's, about $300 million a ship, $130 million for the C130's.

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8673 times:

Wonder if they are going to go with the standard USAF dark grey paint job. Or will they ask for a desert paint scheme. Although I guess the question I should be asking is do they have a choice.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30584 posts, RR: 84
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8631 times:
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Quoting LMP737 (Reply 1):
Wonder if they are going to go with the standard USAF dark grey paint job.

Well UAE's current C-130s are in a mix of "ghost grey", white and camo so they seem to have options.


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8627 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
Well UAE's current C-130s are in a mix of "ghost grey", white and camo so they seem to have options.

I was refering to the C-17's, I should have included that in my post.


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8586 times:

I would not be surprised to see the Saudis order C-17s as well. Not much point in waiting the better part of a decade for the A400, is there?


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineMoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2301 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8571 times:



Quoting LMP737 (Reply 1):
Wonder if they are going to go with the standard USAF dark grey paint job. Or will they ask for a desert paint scheme. Although I guess the question I should be asking is do they have a choice.

I suspect when you are writing a check of that size, you get to choose what color the jets come in.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1870 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8566 times:



Quoting LMP737 (Reply 1):
Wonder if they are going to go with the standard USAF dark grey paint job. Or will they ask for a desert paint scheme. Although I guess the question I should be asking is do they have a choice.

Yes, they do. Just as they did for their F-16E/Fs (a.k.a. Block 60s).



STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlineAgill From Sweden, joined Feb 2004, 1007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8522 times:

Ohh I thought the title of the thread meant the airline. Was somewhat surpriced to put it mildly.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30584 posts, RR: 84
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8506 times:
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Quoting LMP737 (Reply 3):
I was refering to the C-17's, I should have included that in my post.

Nope, your post was clear on that so I was including the C-17s in my comment, as well, but I probably should have been clearer.  Smile


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8496 times:

I find the title "Boeing sells 4 C-17's to Emirates" interesting. When Lockheed got the majority of the Emirates order in both number of airframes ordered and amount of money spent.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30584 posts, RR: 84
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 6 days ago) and read 8455 times:
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Quoting 474218 (Reply 9):
I find the title "Boeing sells 4 C-17's to Emirates" interesting. When Lockheed got the majority of the Emirates order in both number of airframes ordered and amount of money spent.

Well recent speculation on this board has been with the A400M's issues, would existing customers move to the C17 in whole or in part? While the UAE was not an existing A400M customer, the chances of them being a future one are a bit more diminished, now.

Also, while Boeing secured an order for 15 additional C-17s from the USAF, when they did so they evidently contracted with their suppliers for parts to build twice that many frames - 30. So Boeing evidently felt that the chances of additional C-17 orders were likely - as may very well be the case here with the UAE order (assuming Boeing had not already known for some time they were likely to win it and had already contracted for sufficient parts).


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8380 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
would existing customers move to the C17 in whole or in part?

I hope so. The C-17 is as good an airlifter as you will find anywhere.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8303 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
Well recent speculation on this board has been with the A400M's issues, would existing customers move to the C17 in whole or in part? While the UAE was not an existing A400M customer, the chances of them being a future one are a bit more diminished, now.

Also, while Boeing secured an order for 15 additional C-17s from the USAF, when they did so they evidently contracted with their suppliers for parts to build twice that many frames - 30. So Boeing evidently felt that the chances of additional C-17 orders were likely - as may very well be the case here with the UAE order (assuming Boeing had not already known for some time they were likely to win it and had already contracted for sufficient parts).

How did your response even come close to answering my question? I asked why the C-17 was mentioned in the title while the C-130 garnered more orders?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30584 posts, RR: 84
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8294 times:
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Quoting 474218 (Reply 12):
How did your response even come close to answering my question? I asked why the C-17 was mentioned in the title while the C-130 garnered more orders?

Well then maybe it is because nobody gives a rats ass about the C-130?  Silly


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8273 times:

IMVHO, the C-130J will be the big winner due to the A400M delays. The UAE order is just the start. I read a news report today where even South Africa, that Airbus stalwart, is talking about exploring options. Others may get wobbly as well.


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineTexL1649 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8230 times:

To mid-size operators and up, a C-130/C-17 mix is much more flexible than an A-400M-only fleet, anyway. It will definitely be an interesting 12-24 months.

User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8019 times:



Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Also 12 C130J's. Price for the C-17's, about $300 million a ship, $130 million for the C130's.

The price per C-17 caught me by surprise. I didn't realize the airplane costs that much!



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8004 times:



Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 16):
The price per C-17 caught me by surprise. I didn't realize the airplane costs that much!

Think about how much a 757 used to cost — $65-80 million in 2002 dollars, depending upon variant. Now consider that this airframe has a little over twice the MTOW (and twice as many of exactly the same engines), and that the C-17's price includes those engines, whereas the 757's price does not. It doesn't really sound that bad to me.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30584 posts, RR: 84
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7983 times:
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Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 16):
The price per C-17 caught me by surprise. I didn't realize the airplane costs that much!

I do not believe the 4.3 billion dirham deal with Boeing is just four C-17s, which would result in a lower price per ship then Keesje's $300 million USD. The UAE also signed contracts with Boeing to provide spares and training for their Chinook helicopter fleet which was close to 1 billion dirham, so if that was also factored into the deal value...

Also, since the UAE is not a current C-17 operator, even if they are paying 1 billion dirham per ship, that has to include spares, training, and other ancillaries and is not just the base price of the airframe itself as I highly doubt the UAE would be paying the equivalent of almost twice the current USAF list price ($175 million USD per frame for the latest 15) just for the heck of it.  Wink


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7947 times:

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 16):
The price per C-17 caught me by surprise. I didn't realize the airplane costs that much!

Aviation Week did a piece a week or so back that the cost is now $200 million for the USAF and $220 million for international customers. I referenced it on another thread in MilAv.

Edit: Here's the link to the AW&ST article.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...0on%20C-17%20Sales&channel=defense

Quote:
International pricing is about $220 million per aircraft, with the United States paying just over $200 million each.

For comparison, the current price of the A400M according to a report by the French Senate, in current year euros, is 145 million. At current exchange rates, that brings it close to a C-17, an aircraft that is significantly more capable in terms of payload.

[Edited 2009-02-25 08:24:15]

[Edited 2009-02-25 08:25:21]


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently onlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6832 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7575 times:



Quoting Moose135 (Reply 5):

I suspect when you are writing a check of that size, you get to choose what color the jets come in.

I think you also get to select the pilots' cupholders. Big grin



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineKennyK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 482 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6844 times:

I wonder if we will see some more 'surprise' orders for C-17s over the next couple of years, Israel, India, Saudi, Turkey, Japan, more for the UK and who else?, after all who would have expected Qatar and the UAE only a couple of years ago to go for such a strategic asset!!

User currently offlineNorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6821 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 18):

He will use this article though in future A400 vs C-17 arguments as proof of the "extreme cost of the C-17." Hopefully everyone will see the price the USAF pays and realize there is nothing "extreme" in the price of a C-17. The aircraft actually gives you very good bang for you buck compared to the A400 at this stage.


User currently offlineKennyK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 482 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6574 times:

One factor that goes in the C-17s favour is it is a mature aircraft, a new customer knows what they are getting , when they will get it and that all the problems have been ironed out. With the A400 you know roughly what you should be getting, you don't know when you will get it, and if you get it are you sure it's going work and be reliable?

At this stage in the game I would not be surprised if the RAF was to go for perhaps 4 more C-17s and a similar number, maybe more C-130Js and hopefully get the A400 in 5 years time by which time it should be in series production and hopefully will be a somewhat mature aircraft with most problems ironed out by the French Air force. As for other customers, go for the C-17, it's a damned good aircraft and it available pretty well now.


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6395 times:



Quoting KennyK (Reply 23):
One factor that goes in the C-17s favour is it is a mature aircraft, a new customer knows what they are getting , when they will get it and that all the problems have been ironed out. With the A400 you know roughly what you should be getting, you don't know when you will get it, and if you get it are you sure it's going work and be reliable?

I worked on product development on the C17 and I can tell you that it is a special purpose aircraft built around a mission, and that mission is to put an all up main battle tank into a forward area, specifically a 5,000 foot unimproved airstrip. It was designed around the M1 Abrams tank.

Of course, when you have that sort of heavy lift/short field capacity there are all sorts of other things you can do with it.


25 N328KF : In a warfighting situation, how many tanks, gear, and personnel do you think we could place into a given area given our C-17 fleet? Call it an emerge
26 CX747 : Both the C-17's and C-130J's value is only going to increase as the A400M takes longer to field. As the A400M continues to have issues, the C-17's ord
27 Par13del : Boeing should take the bull by the horns and not try to let the US Air Force and Congress keep the line open, we are talking about an airlifter not a
28 Stitch : I would expect they are. However, the per frame cost for customers who already have a C-17 support infrastructure (like the RAF) is going to be lower
29 Par13del : Some how I get the feeling that you were doing real good until you mentioned the French. I admint I did not take my thought process all the way throu
30 Stitch : While France is a NATO country, they maintain their armed forces separately from the rest of NATO's military structure so I would expect in such a hy
31 Par13del : My thought process was that France would keep its order for the A400M, in retrospect though, if the project was cancelled then yes, basing in France w
32 Bennett123 : When people talk about the French, they tend to forget the KC135, C130 and DC8's. I do not think that a French C17 is impossible.
33 Par13del : Quite right my friend but how many of them were pre-Airbus??? Once a local providor came around the French quite rightly supported their local indust
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