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German Mig-29 Question?  
User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8330 times:

Hi guys.

I have a quick question about German Mig-29's.

How long has Germany been flying Mig-29's?

I did a search and read some info (posted back in mid april, 2002) about 6 Mig-29's that had just been delivered to Germany, with 2 more to immediately follow. However, I couldn't tell by that info if these were Germany's very first Mig-29's or just a new addition. Then I can across a photo of a German Mig-29 which is dated August 25, 2001. So, I'm left wondering. I didn't even know Germany was flying Mig's.

Any information about this would be great.


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Photo © Sven De Bevere



Here's the photo from Aug,25,2001.


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Photo © Lutz Turba



These are the kind of German fighters I'm used to seeing photos of.


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Photo © Wolfgang Jahke



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Photo © Paul Harvey



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Photo © Tony Rogers



Chris  Smile


"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8250 times:

Oops!!! I posted this in the wrong forum!!! DAM, I hate it when I do that!  Sad




Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8237 times:

The answer is that they were all inherited from the East German Air Force when Germany reunified.

User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8236 times:

Thanks for your reply SAS23. I figured the answer probably had something to do with when the wall came down, but I want to know the actually year the MIGs were transfered.

Now I have to figure out how to get the origional post linked over to the military forum before it gets deleted. I don't know the procedure and I can't cut and paste.  Sad

Chris  Smile





"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8247 times:

The year would be 1990, which is when Germany was reunified. At the same time, the Luftwaffe also acquired ex Interflug IL62s and A310s for their transport fleet.

User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8240 times:

Hi SAS23.

Thanks for your information. It's very much appreciated, especially since I screwed up and posted this in the wrong forum.

Take Care,

Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6517 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8240 times:

The Luftwaffe MiG-29s have lately been sold to Poland. Price was one Euro. Don't remember if it was a unit price for every single plane or it was the total price.

In Poland they will most likely be used as spares supply for their present MiG-29 fleet.

At the re-unification (or "die Wende" as it is named in Germany) the Luftwaffe also got loads of MiG-21s, -23s, -27s and various Sukoy planes. They were mostly exported to Denmark where they were converted, not into beer cans, but into generator and air conditioner mounts and similar structures for VW and Audi cars - and consequently re-exported to Germany.

So your old VW or Audi may have a substantial part of MiG fighter under the hood.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineGlobemaster From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8001 times:

As far as I know the East German Air Force got the first 24 MiG-29 (incl. 4 MiG-29UB 2-seaters) in 1988.
Since 1991 the east german MiG-29's are part of the German Air Force ("We didn't buy them - we got them!").
They probably will be replaced by the Eurofighter.

From (former East) Germany, Peter
--
The GLOBEMASTER US Military Aviation Database on
http://www.globemaster.de/


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7965 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7999 times:

Hi there,

Some additions:
1) There are no more F-104G in service.
2) Globemaster: They probably will be replaced by the Eurofighter.
The MIGs will indeed be the first aircraft to be replaced by Typhoons. Then the last remaining Phantoms, then even some Tornados.
3) Prebennorholm: At the re-unification (or "die Wende" as it is named in Germany) "Wende" (change) was actually the somewhat trashy description for the change of government from Helmut Schmidt to Helmut Kohl. The reunification is called "Wiedervereinigung" (the German aequivalent for reunification) here.
4) Prebennorholm: MiG-21s, -23s, -27s and various Sukoy planes.
I'm not fully sure but to my knowledge the former GDR did not have any Sukhoi planes in 1990. They planned the introduction of Su-25, though.

Regards,
NoUFO



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7983 times:

Hi guys.

Thank You, very much for your information about when and how Germany received MIG Fighters. As always, I find your knowledge amazing!

Just the thought of MIG Fighter parts being under the hood of a VW or Audi is an absolute riot!

Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineBroke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7920 times:

The Discovery Wings Channel did a couple of programs which involved the Luftwaffe MiG-29's.
Three interesting points; one, the units equipped with the MiG-29's were ex-DDR squadrons and within a few years after the acquisition almost all the ex-East German pilots were gone from the unit (The impression I got was that they were washed out).
Two; another program had a group of U.S. Navy F/A-18 pilots with their planes performing dissimilar combat operations against the German MiG-29's. In some cases, pilot's swapped mounts. I believe that this happened in 2000 and the pilots on both sides were really razzed about the whole operation.
Three; German MiG-29 aircraft have flown in "Red Flag" (I hope I got this title correct) operations in Canada with and against all types of NATO units.


User currently offlineRene From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7935 times:

The first MiG-29 were delivered to East Germany in March 1988.
24 examples were received and with the Reunion of West and East Germany were taken over by the Luftwaffe.
They were based at Preschen in East Germany and equipped the 1st and 2nd Squadron of the JG-3. The Luftwaffe put the MiG-29 to many tests in Preschen, Manching, Wittmund and Deci and finally decided to keep them operational. The JG-3 became the Erprobungsgeschwader MiG-29 during that time and after the decision was made to keep them it became the JG73 and the MiG-29 equipped the 1st squadron of the JG-73. All MiG-29 were upgraded to comply with NATO-Standards (IFF, TACAN etc). The new homebase became Laage, as Preschen was quite near to Poland and the approach could have led aircraft over polish territory. The MiG-29 arrived at Laage at the end of 1994. In 1997 the 2nd Squadron equipped with F-4F moved to Laage coming from Pferdsfeld. Now the JG73 was complete.
In 1998 a second upgrade was started but only 7 MiG-29 received it. The second upgrade included the capability to take more fuel to enlarge the range. This made it possible to fly with this MiG-29 to Goose Bay (Canada) und Nellis (USA), to take part in exercises like Maple Flag and Red Flag. This 7 MiG-29 are in the USA right now at Nellis AFB.
The MiG-29 are still in use with the JG-73 in Laage at least until 2004.
If they will be sold to Poland they won't be used for spare parts because the are already NATO-compatibel. Poland needs fighter like that as only 12 of their MiG-29 are NATO-compatibel and to acquire the fighter this cheap is a great chance for Poland. It would make no sense to use them as spare parts only. There are also plans to modernize them. Here is a link where you can already see what colour scheme they will get and what number: http://www.astercity.net/~karol1/niemmigi.html
Today there are 23 MiG-29 with the JG-73, 19 single-seater 29+01 - 2912, 2914 - 29+21) and 4 two-seater (29+22 - 29+25).
The 29+09 was lost in a crash in June 1996.
If you need more information and pictures there is a great homepage about the German MiG-29: http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de

@Prebennorholm: The forces of the GDR never had MiG-27.
The following type of aircraft were "taken over" by the Bundeswehr:
MiG-21, MiG-23, L-39, Tu-154, IL-62, L-410, AN-26, Mi-2, Mi-8, Mi-9, Mi-14, Mi-24 and SU-22
Some MiG-23 and SU-22 were flown for some years in Manching for tests. Some aircraft were given to the US Forces. By the way: A MiG-29 (29+06) was also brought to the USA for test for nearly two years, 1991-1992).
Some aircraft were sold or given away. Many L-39 and Mi-24 werde delivered to countries in Eastern Europe.
Beside the MiG-29 the Mi-8, L-410 and two Tu-154 and some other were operated by the Bundeswehr for some years. But now only the MiG-29 is in use.
The rest was scrapped or sold to museums or private owner. I never heard about an aircraft that has been brought to Denmark.
For example most SU-22 and MiG-23 were scrapped at Laage. That the metal of the broken aircraft has been sold to other countries, maybe.

@NoUFO: Yes, the Eurofighter will replace the MiG-29, but at least for some months they will operate alongside at Laage.


User currently offlineRene From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7899 times:

@broke: There are still ex-East German pilots with the 731.

User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 7897 times:

Hi guys.

That's great information Rene. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

>Broke, I remember seeing that same TV show on the program Wings, when the American pilots were flying with MIG pilots, a few years ago. That show really let you know that the cold war was over.

Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineRene From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 7879 times:

No problem. It's always a pleasure  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

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Photo © Rene Kurzenberg



User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7965 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7870 times:

@ Rene: Are you a Mig-29 pilot or are you in touch with one of them? I wonder what pilots really think of those MIGs. I learned second hand that they like "their" plane (not surprisingly - the title of the webpage that opens after following the link provided by yourself reads "fabulous fulcrums") but though highly agile, they would be comparatively difficult to fly as they would require lots of steering not to mention maintenance. So the pilots're eagerly awaiting Typhoons as a successor. Is that true? Do you have any idea?

Regards from Berlin,
NoUFO



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineRene From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7868 times:

No, I'm not a MiG-Pilot just an avaition enthusiast. Maybe you should ask your questions the webmaster of the fulcrums homepage. He might be able to help you. But I can imagine that the MiG-29 might be difficult to fly as it has no sidestick or fly-by-wire. A plane for real pilots  Wink/being sarcastic

User currently offlineGlobemaster From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7846 times:

The german word "Wende" which actually means something like "turn" or "change" is indeed used as a comprehensive term for all the things that happened in the years 89 and 90 when the wall came down in Germany and East Germany "turned" from a communist country into a western oriented system. Finally the German Democratic Republic (aka East Germany) stopped to exist and got reunified with the Federal Republic of Germany (aka West Germany) (again). Consequently the both german armies got reunified too (as far as you ever can put 2 armies from left and right of the iron curtain together) and the MiG's got the traditional black German Luftwaffe cross.

The current use of the word "Wende" in Germany as a special historical term has nothing to do with Helmut Kohl taking over the government from Helmut Schmidt, which happened in 1982.

Peter
--
The GLOBEMASTER US Military Aviation Database on
http://www.globemaster.de/


User currently offlineRene From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7812 times:

The cross is not a cross for the Luftwaffe only. It is also used by the Heer and the Marine. In other words it is applied to all planes and helicopters in use by the Bundeswehr.
After the reunion Bundeswehr serials were applied to nearly all aircraft of the NVA. The cross was only applied to aircraft which flew at least one time for the Bundeswehr. Although there are some cases where the cross has been applied to aircraft which didn't fly with the Bundeswehr, just for photographers.


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