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Smoking On Air Force One?  
User currently onlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4454 posts, RR: 19
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11788 times:

I was perusing an article on our new Presidents first 100 days and there was a photograph of him inside AF 1 seated next to a table with what looked like an ash tray on it.


I think he is still a smoker and have no doubt he would light up if he wanted to ! does anyone know if there is an official policy on smoking or non-smoking onboard ?


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 907 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11735 times:

If you have the pic that would be better so we can see what you are talking about.
Also Pres. Obama has stated that he has quit smoking and has stated that he does not plan to smoke again



"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
User currently offlineJorge1812 From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 3149 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11559 times:

There are ash-trays on almost all airplanes and smoking is not allowed on the most. Guess it's a relict from the past. Also doubt that even the US President is allowed to smoke on AF1 - his life is more or less directed by the security hints from the CIA (?).

georg


User currently offlineLuxair_ca From Luxembourg, joined Feb 2002, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11313 times:

hi

there are ashtrays on EVERY plane, as it is a regulation to have them....(in case somebody still lights up a cigarette even if its a non-smoking flight, so you have a place to put the cigarette inside), same reason why there are still ashtrays in every lavatory in a plane....

Marc


User currently offlineAcabgd From Serbia, joined Jul 2005, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11203 times:

With the job of being a President getting so stressful, I would say Obama started smoking more than before - at least that's what I would expect to happen.

As for smoking on AF1 - why would it be forbidden? AFAIK you can smoke perfectly well on a private jet, and many people do so. I understand AF1 is not Obama's private jet, but hey, the guy is the President, if he decides to have a smoke who can say "no" to him?



CSud,D9,MD8x,D10,Trid,BAC1,A30,31,319,320,321,33,346,B71,72,73,74,75,76,77,L10,S20,A42,A72,T13,T15,F50,F70,F100,B146
User currently offlineLVHGEL From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2007, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11110 times:



Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 2):
his life is more or less directed by the security hints from the CIA (?).

Secret Service is the organization in charge of the US President security, the CIA are spies and foreign intelligence gatherers and analyzers.

Cheers


User currently offlineJorge1812 From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 3149 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10804 times:



Quoting LVHGEL (Reply 5):
Secret Service is the organization in charge of the US President security

Thanks, I thought that CIA is not correct.

Quoting Acabgd (Reply 4):
but hey, the guy is the President, if he decides to have a smoke who can say "no" to him?

Due to security reasons the Secret Service can forbid I would say.

Quoting Acabgd (Reply 4):
you can smoke perfectly well on a private jet, and many people do so. I understand AF1 is not Obama's private jet,

It's not a private Jet, it's a Military plane operating for the government. As far as I know he has to pay a rent for living in the White House - so it's not everything down to one person being "Mr. President".

Anyway, we will never know if smoking is allowed on AF1 or not.

georg


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10700 times:



Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 6):
Due to security reasons the Secret Service can forbid I would say.

They have control over some things, but they also work very hard to allow the President and his family as much freedom as possible. They would not stop a President from smoking, even if his wife ordered them to do so.

Yes, there is a general policy / rule against smoking on US military aircraft, but on the executive level aircraft, it is done quite frequently.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10404 times:



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 7):
Yes, there is a general policy / rule against smoking on US military aircraft, but on the executive level aircraft, it is done quite frequently.

Which if you ask me, is pretty sorry. Try holding yourself to the same standards you are asking of the officers and enlisted that serve you


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10398 times:
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Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
Try holding yourself to the same standards you are asking of the officers and enlisted that serve you

Got news for you. The Brass are walking around AF1 during takeoff and landing. The Brass don't secure their sensitive items on the aircraft. AF1 doesn't follow AMC rules for space-a passengers, etc. The list goes on and it's long......



Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12135 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10328 times:



Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 6):
It's not a private Jet, it's a Military plane operating for the government. As far as I know he has to pay a rent for living in the White House - so it's not everything down to one person being "Mr. President".

Anyway, we will never know if smoking is allowed on AF1 or not.

georg

The USAF has a regulation against smoking on USAF aircraft and has had it since the early 1980s. New build USAF aircraft do not have ash trays built in. The two VC-25As were built in 1989 and would not have ash trays built into the aircraft. The C-32A and C-40Bs assigned to the Presidential Fleet also have no ash trays built into the aircraft.

The White House is also a non-smoking building, as are all US Government buildings.

However, President Obama continues to smoke even today. At the WH, he goes outside to smoke, and should not be smoking aboard Air Force-1.

The President does not pay rent to live in the White House and when he flys aboard AF-1, the WH has a budget to pay the USAF for all the airplane flying time, maintenance, parking, landing, and crew expenses.


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4318 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10032 times:



Quoting N104UA (Reply 1):
Also Pres. Obama has stated that he has quit smoking and has stated that he does not plan to smoke again

Doubtful he can or will keep that promise. With the pressures of his job, the urge to light up will be stronger than he's ever faced before. He should just accept the fact that he won't be able to quite while President, especially if he couldn't quit previously when he held lesser, less stressful jobs.

Besides, I think smoking is the least of his health issues while President. The stress alone is enough to kill mere mortal men.

Quoting Acabgd (Reply 4):
With the job of being a President getting so stressful, I would say Obama started smoking more than before - at least that's what I would expect to happen.

 checkmark 

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
and should not be smoking aboard Air Force-1.

In your opinion, do you think he is or is not able to get in a smoke or two on AF1, especially on his long endurance overseas trips?



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently onlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4454 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9903 times:

I suspect that if President Obama want's a cigarette on board he will have one and deservedly so !


I am unable to provide a link but..


The picture I saw with an ash tray next to him on AF1 was in the recent Time magazine with the title 'the first 100 days'



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineOffshoreAir From United States of America, joined May 2009, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9888 times:

I think there is one thing that is being left out.

If the law states it is illegal to smoke on any aircraft, then the president and AF1 are subject to that law, unless they can justify some sort of emergency or special powers to be above the law in that case where smoking was necessary.

Its a basic principle of the US Constitution that no one is above the law, not even the President (unless he calls for specific Executive Priviledges).

This does not mean it is not broken though. There are plenty of situations where the law is broken by President's, even at every level. So if it is a law, or even a USAF rule, then he is breaking it. Its just that one one will call him on it because it is so trivial.

I'm not saying he should or shouldn't, I'm just trying to clarify to whether it is legal or illegal.



OffshoreAir
User currently offlineCurt22 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9844 times:



Quoting OffshoreAir (Reply 13):
If the law states it is illegal to smoke on any aircraft, then the president and AF1 are subject to that law, unless they can justify some sort of emergency or special powers to be above the law in that case where smoking was necessary.

No one is above the law...however there is no "law" that makes it illegal to smoke on ALL aircraft.

Air Force Instructions (Regulations) bans smoking on USAF acft, but technically AFI’s do not apply to people outside of the Air Force...and public "law" about smoking on commercial flights does not apply to private/military aircraft.

I guess the AF One bubba's could ask (tell) POTUS about the smoking AFI...but the whole reason they exist is to serve the POTUS...question comes to mind is who are they to dictate terms to the person they are there to serve?


User currently offlineOffshoreAir From United States of America, joined May 2009, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9728 times:



Quoting Curt22 (Reply 15):
No one is above the law...however there is no "law" that makes it illegal to smoke on ALL aircraft.

Air Force Instructions (Regulations) bans smoking on USAF acft, but technically AFI’s do not apply to people outside of the Air Force...and public "law" about smoking on commercial flights does not apply to private/military aircraft.

Right, that's what I meant. I didn't want to break down the legal jargon on the subject because there are so many different maybe's and possibly's  Smile



OffshoreAir
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6897 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9644 times:



Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 6):
Due to security reasons the Secret Service can forbid I would say.

Well, Obama is the boss of the Secret Service; I fail to see how they can enforce anything against him. As to the military regs, he is Commander in Chief of the military, and has the authority to change or override any reg that they issue. So again, who has the authority to stop him?

Quoting OffshoreAir (Reply 13):

If the law states it is illegal to smoke on any aircraft, then the president and AF1 are subject to that law, unless they can justify some sort of emergency or special powers to be above the law in that case where smoking was necessary.

It is not illegal to smoke on "any" aircraft; it is illegal for a passenger or flight crew member on a Part 121 or Part 135 aircraft to smoke. I could have smoked on my 182 if I wanted, and it would have been totally legal (however stupid, not only for my health but because the smoke is not good for the vacuum system).
Bottom line, if Obama wants to smoke on AF1 I don't think there is any authority that has the right to tell him he can't. And of all the fights I want to pick with Obama (there are a bunch of them) this is not one of them.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5506 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9616 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 12):
The picture I saw with an ash tray next to him on AF1 was in the recent Time magazine with the title 'the first 100 days'

I believe you mean this one:
http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1893255_1874397,00.html
Picture 65 in the series.

And that is a drink holder not an ashtray (if I have the right picture).


Tugg
Edit: I had embedded the pic but then thought perhaps I shouldn't do that. I did give the appropriate credits but can someone tell me if a Time photograph can be embedded with proper credits or does it need full permissions first? Just curious, thanks.

[Edited 2009-05-14 17:44:11]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4318 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9545 times:



Quoting Tugger (Reply 17):
I believe you mean this one:
http://www.time.com/time/photogaller....html

If I'm looking at the right pic, that's a stack of coasters, not a cup holder.

By the way, even if the President does smoke aboard AF1, I think he would be VERY discreet about it. Certainly I don't think his staff would allow ashtrays to be out in the open for others, in particular a photographer, to see. My guess is if he does smoke on board he sneaks it in, perhaps in his private sleeping quarters, which is a location that no one else (or at least very few) are allowed into.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 17):
I had embedded the pic but then thought perhaps I shouldn't do that. I did give the appropriate credits but can someone tell me if a Time photograph can be embedded with proper credits or does it need full permissions first? Just curious, thanks.

I think you can embed a photograph; however, you would have to provide within your post the name of the source and a link to the source where the photograph came from.



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offlineDonniecs From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9457 times:



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 7):
Yes, there is a general policy / rule against smoking on US military aircraft, but on the executive level aircraft, it is done quite frequently.

I can say that with over 3,000 hours as an FE on C-20's and C-37's, I've never seen anybody smoke and I guarantee that I'll never see it in the next 3,000 hours. Maybe C-12s, C-21s, C-32s and C-40s have a different policy than the governments Gulfstream fleet.

The only time the issue has been brought up was with a few foreign dignitaries and all they did was as if it was ok to smoke and the response was no.



Charlie - Gulfstream flight mechanic
User currently offlineJgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9055 times:



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
Which if you ask me, is pretty sorry. Try holding yourself to the same standards you are asking of the officers and enlisted that serve you

RHIP(rank has its privilege)...one of the basic tenets of the the military.


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