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A Nice Exception These Days: The UH 72A  
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Posted (5 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9203 times:

Giving all the bad news in military aviation (A400M and NH 90 delay, cost overrun VH 71 etc...) I thought it is time to post some good news for a change:

Apparently the US Army is very satisfied with the UH 72A:

“The UH-72A has accomplished what few – if any other – major programs have achieved: staying on price and schedule this far into the project…and I see no reason why we can’t continue this performance,” Weiger said. “I also believe the Lakota program’s reputation will position us – even with today’s budget constraints – to grasp future opportunities that may arise, which will be a win for the U.S. Army, EADS North America and American Eurocopter.”

http://www.uh-72a.com/news-feature-s...9/07-11-09-40-40th-anniversary.asp


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16812 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9173 times:

The National Guard desperately needed new aircraft to replace the UH-1s and OH-58s, the new UH-72s are being delivered at a quick pace.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9152 times:

Great news. This is what is expected of military contractors. Honesty and integrity.

Why did EADS deliver it on price, well clearly not because they had to. The US military almost invites dramatic over-charging, so it takes a Mother Theresa not to at least charge a few million extra. No, EADS resisted it because they have other goals in the Pentagon market.


User currently offlineCTR From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9096 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
Why did EADS deliver it on price

Because unlike the VH-71 or ARH , the UH72A is truly a COTS aircraft (Commercial of the Shelf).

With the exception of radios and paint the UH72A has little difference from the commercial EC145 performing EMS duties. There are no weapon systems or countermeasures on the UH72A.

The EC145 is a good helicopter. But it has zero relevance to weapon system procurement.

To fix the current DOD morass involving weapon system procurement, the US government needs to clean it's own house.

Have fun,

CTR



Aircraft design is just one big compromise,,,
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 9047 times:

It is unfortunate an US producer couldn't be procured instead.

Those where jobs that Americans could have used in these troubled economic times.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently onlineThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1673 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 9044 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
It is unfortunate an US producer couldn't be procured instead.

Those where jobs that Americans could have used in these troubled economic times.

The UH-72A IS made is the US... production of the EC 145 was transferred to a plant in Columbus, Mississippi. Any commercial EC 145 is now made in the US.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8979 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
It is unfortunate an US producer couldn't be procured instead.

Those where jobs that Americans could have used in these troubled economic times.

Two things:

First like it has been already said the UH 72 is build by Eurocopter USA second US helicopter manufacturers have been producing the same types for 30 years and are not competitive anymore with European manufacturers like Agusta-Westland or Eurocopter.

Be glad that there is competiton from abroad, the Boeing tanker deal, the CSAR and ARH have been bad examples of the recent past.

P.S. Same goes for European defence products, European goverments should order abroad if the own industry messes up (e.g. new training helicopter for the German Army, new Navy helicopter, A400M, etc....)



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineCTR From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8929 times:



Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 5):
The UH-72A IS made is the US... production of the EC 145 was transferred to a plant in Columbus, Mississippi. Any commercial EC 145 is now made in the US

Don't confuse "Final Assembly" with "Made in the USA". USA manufactured part content in the UH-72A is far less than 50%. If it was a car, it would not qualify as Made in the USA.

That said, if the Bell 412 had won the competition, final assembly would likely been kept in Mirabel Canada.

Have fun

CTR



Aircraft design is just one big compromise,,,
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8916 times:



Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 5):
The UH-72A IS made is the US... production of the EC 145 was transferred to a plant in Columbus, Mississippi. Any commercial EC 145 is now made in the US.

Not really, like the NG/EADS KC-45 would have been, the UH-72 is ASSEMBLED in the US, with parts built in Europe.

But, this is a refreshing relief to see that something the US military is building is on time and on budget.

There is another US Weapons program that does not get a lot of press because it too is on time and on budget. That is the Burke class DDGs for the USN, built and assembled at Bath shipyard in Maine, and in Mobil, AL.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16812 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8911 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
But, this is a refreshing relief to see that something the US military is building is on time and on budget.

For the missions it's being assigned in the US the UH-72A is the perfect helicopter, National Guard RAID missions etc.. Many States were equipped with UH-1s that were not flight worthy, these new UH-72A's brings many States up to their full compliment of flyable aircraft.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16812 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8607 times:

As per the Army, UH-72s will also be based in Europe with US Army Europe.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8113 times:



Quoting CTR (Reply 3):
To fix the current DOD morass involving weapon system procurement, the US government needs to clean it's own house.

This is so typical of you. You consistently play the role of the cheerleader for the industrial fat cats, particularly in the case of Bell. And at the same time it seems you relish in the opportunity to blame the agencies/branches/government.

Do you work for Bell marketing?


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8100 times:

How many UH-72s are being bought by the US Army? Will the USAF, USCG, USMC, and USN buy any as just a utility helio?

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16812 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8096 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
How many UH-72s are being bought by the US Army?

Over 300 between the Active, Guard and Reserve. As of now the only other branch that has orders for the UH-72 is the Navy, but that order is just a handful for the Test pilot school at PAX river.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16812 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6781 times:

An armed version of the UH-72/EC 145 is being offered for the US Army's OH-58D replacement program, hopefully it will fair better than the ARH-70 in development.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently onlineThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1673 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6694 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
An armed version of the UH-72/EC 145 is being offered for the US Army's OH-58D replacement program, hopefully it will fair better than the ARH-70 in development.

As long as they manage the project CAREFULLY and keep a lid on requirement creep, they are fine.


User currently offlineAGC525 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 17 hours ago) and read 6617 times:

My company was one of the first in the country to fly a medical configuaration. It's an awesome platform and very well recieved. Right now we have 8 in our fleet and more are on order.


American Aviation: From Kitty Hawk to the Moon in 66 years!
User currently offlineJackonicko From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 472 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 15 hours ago) and read 6569 times:

It's a far, far better aircraft than any of the locally designed alternatives.

Bell 407? Per-lease.
Bell 412? A geriatric Huey with botox.
Bell 427? Worse.
Bell 429? Getting there, but still not mature. It's taken Bell years to nearly catch up with the EC135/145.

MD900? Simply not as good an aircraft.

Sikorsky? Don't make a right-sized aircraft.

But for such a non-critical role, second best would have been good enough, and second best could have supported more US jobs. I think you should have gone with the MD900.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 6532 times:



Quoting Jackonicko (Reply 17):
Sikorsky? Don't make a right-sized aircraft.

It should be said that Sikorsky acquired Schweizer to give them a manufacturing base for smaller helos, and the Sikorsky S-434 is the first of these. No, it's not as big as an OH-58, but it's definitely their start on offering a full model line.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineJackonicko From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 472 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 8 hours ago) and read 6435 times:

A Schweizer 333 with the four blade main rotor and other features from the Firescout is hardly going to get Eurocopter and AgustaWestland quaking in their boots, now, is it?

The US rotorcraft industry has effectively stepped out of light-to-medium modern rotorcraft development, ceding the field to the Europeans.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 6 hours ago) and read 6413 times:



Quoting Jackonicko (Reply 19):
A Schweizer 333 with the four blade main rotor and other features from the Firescout is hardly going to get Eurocopter and AgustaWestland quaking in their boots, now, is it?

I said, it's a start. Sikorsky clearly has big plans for Schweizer, and that consists of UAVs and plugging the holes in their product line.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineJackonicko From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 472 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 6385 times:

Building a handful of 'super 333s' as part of an S-92 deal with Saudi Arabia doesn't feel like a confident or adequate start, to me.

I could see Jeff Pino's prediction that the S-92 would be Sikorsky's last new conventional helicopter design coming true.

As to Sikorsky's plans for Schweizer, I'm unconvinced, personally.

I take no pleasure in saying so, as AgustaWestland and Eurocopter badly need some proper competition.


User currently offlineArniePie From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 1265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5614 times:

Not wanting t start a new thread for it but still interesting to share I think;
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...%24247m-order-45-more-uh_72as.html

Quoting The Article:
EADS North American Defense, Arlington, Va., was awarded on Dec. 1, 2009, a $247,242,722 firm-fixed-price contract.

This contract is for the funding of program year 2005 of the Army’s Light Utility Helicopter program for 45 light utility helicopters (UH-72A), 30 medical evacuation (MEDEVAC) mission equipment packages, 30 MEDEVAC B-kits, 30 hoist B-kits, four very important personnel mission equipment packages, 11 engine inlet barrier filters, 34 environmental control units, and 45 airborne radio communication 231s.

Work is to be performed in Columbus, Miss., with an estimated completion date of June 30, 2011. One bid was solicited with one bid received.

About 5.5 million $ per aircraft, seems reasonable, no?
Also how is this new type performing, am I right in assuming that no news usually means good news ?
Is it performing as expected, how about reliability and what are the recurring issues, if any?
also could this type be sold outside the US with US specs (maybe from the same production plant) , I know plenty of air forces that could make good use of this type of light utility helicopter, eg.Belgium comes to mind and lots of Eastern European states that still need to upgrade old fleets, usually old relics from the USSR days.



[edit post]
User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7050 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5600 times:



Quoting Jackonicko (Reply 21):
I take no pleasure in saying so, as AgustaWestland and Eurocopter badly need some proper competition.

Why? You have already said that they have superior equipment to the Americans who have stagnated for the last 10 to 20 years, that would mean that competition played little or no part in their current product line.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16812 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5393 times:

The UH-72 is the front runner to replace the Army's OH-58 Kiowa's in the light attack/ reconnaissance mission.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
25 Post contains links STT757 : First UH-72s for US Army Europe: Arrival at Ramstein: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWqCsTpMoaU Arrival at Hohenfels: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
26 sasd209 : I am happy to see these A/C are seeming to work so well; I haven't heard of any major issues with their introduction into service. Are these A/C that
27 STT757 : These are for the active duty Army in Europe, several active duty units will be receiving UH-72s. The UH-72s will not deploy though, and not see comb
28 N328KF : Right. They're mainly intended for shuttling REMFs around so that we free up purpose-built combat-grade helos for front-line duty.
29 sasd209 : Ah, that clears it up, many thanks!
30 trex8 : the EC145 is based on the BK117 which is the most popular civilian EMS chopper in the US so I would think the basic design is well proven. IIRC prici
31 Post contains images KPDX : I have to say, the UH-72 is one stunning heli with the military paint!
32 Post contains links and images Arniepie : It seems defence projects can be done the right way http://www.globaldefence.net/defence...nology-demonstration-aircraft.html
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