Quote: Saudi Arabia is close to placing an order for as many as 72 Boeing F-15 fighter jets, industry and defense sources tell us. Growing security concerns over Gulf neighbor and perennial troublemaker Iran are pushing the Saudis to upgrade their air fleet with a particular emphasis on precision strike aircraft.
The Pentagon is expected to approve the sale as it seeks to counter Iran’s recent break-out as a regional power and quell nervousness among Gulf Arab states troubled by Iran’s growing stockpile of increasingly accurate and long-range ballistic missiles. Foreign military sales are managed through the Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency. DSCA did not respond to an emailed request for information.
The F-15 order would come on top of Riyadh’s purchase of 72 Eurofighter Typhoons in 2006, the first of which are just now being delivered to the Gulf kingdom. The Saudis currently operate around 71 two-seat F-15Ss, a variant of the F-15E Strike Eagle with downgraded avionics, Hughes APG-70 radar and LANTIRN targeting pod. They also operate 66 single-seat F-15Cs and 18 two-seat F-15Ds air-superiority fighters, according to figures compiled by CSIS’s Anthony Cordesman.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26697 posts, RR: 83 Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3712 times:
So the Typhoons would become the front-line air-defense interceptor and the Silent Eagle would become the new front-line strike fighter.
Going to be a darn nice force.
I expect if it goes through, Israel is going to yell loud for the F-22 and/or F-35.
Nomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1561 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3697 times:
Seems like the Saudis have decided, that no matter what else happens in an Iranian attack, no Persian aircraft is going to get more than three feet beyond the border.
There are a few military planes that will eclipse everything ever built in the history books. C-130. The B-52, MIG-25 and the F-15.
Sometimes they get it right.
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 21 Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3554 times:
Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 2): Seems like the Saudis have decided, that no matter what else happens in an Iranian attack,
It it is indeed the Iranian's they're worried about the most?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
Connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3857 posts, RR: 13 Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3532 times:
Quoting Lumberton (Reply 3): Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 2):
Seems like the Saudis have decided, that no matter what else happens in an Iranian attack,
It it is indeed the Iranian's they're worried about the most?
The Iranians are going to attack with what, exactly ? Not many credible a/c in service, e.g., old rickety F-14s and a handful of upgraded Tigers. Unless they've been receiving new-build Sukhois and/or MiGs. Any attack I would think would be by missile.
Oroka From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 787 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3309 times:
On one hand, a 72 unit order would guarantee the F-15SE going into production, I just have reservations about allowing an Arab country to have such a potent air force, especially considering they don't seem to have too many real threats to them selfs. A F-15 isn't going to do much good against a guy hiding in a bush with a AK-47, which seems to be the biggest threat to a oil rich Arab nation. 80 F-15C/Ds, 70 F-15S, 72 Typhoons, and 72 F-15SE... 294 of some of the best fighters and attack aircraft in the world. That is alot of military power for such a small nation.
But hey, when you got that much money, half those F-15SE are probably for their kids to play with.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26697 posts, RR: 83 Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3277 times:
Well Boeing will certainly be welcome for the business to keep the Saint Louis production line open. So that will pretty much guarantee that the WA, IL and MO congressional delegations will be pushing for the buy to be approved.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11708 posts, RR: 52 Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3263 times:
Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 2): There are a few military planes that will eclipse everything ever built in the history books. C-130. The B-52, MIG-25 and the F-15.
I would not put the Mig-25 on that list, but would add the KC-135.
Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 4): The Iranians are going to attack with what, exactly ? Not many credible a/c in service, e.g., old rickety F-14s and a handful of upgraded Tigers. Unless they've been receiving new-build Sukhois and/or MiGs. Any attack I would think would be by missile.
In 2008 the IIAF had 273 fighters including F-14A, F-4D/E, F-5E/F, Marage F-1, Mig-29A, Su-25K, Su-24MK, and others.
They also have 1 AEW Il-76, and several P-3Fs, along with KC-707 and KC-747 tankers.
The IIAF, at least on paper looks very impressive.
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 21 Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3250 times:
Quoting Lumberton (Reply 3): It it is indeed the Iranian's they're worried about the most?
Hmm...I guess subtlety gets lost sometime. I was referring to a country to the north of Saudi Arabia. No, it isn't Turkey, but close.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
Quoting Stitch (Reply 1): So the Typhoons would become the front-line air-defense interceptor and the Silent Eagle would become the new front-line strike fighter.
Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 2): Seems like the Saudis have decided, that no matter what else happens in an Iranian attack, no Persian aircraft is going to get more than three feet beyond the border.
More likely they thought - "Better to have two world powers on your side in a crunch".
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8): The IIAF, at least on paper looks very impressive.
Are the Su-34s and MiG-29s they were supposed to have ordered the other year mere "rumours"?
Connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3857 posts, RR: 13 Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3185 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8): In 2008 the IIAF had 273 fighters including F-14A, F-4D/E, F-5E/F, Marage F-1, Mig-29A, Su-25K, Su-24MK, and others.
273 may seem like a big number but:
a) F-5s really can't be ranked as first-line a/c
b) what's the availability of the F-14s ?
c) F-4 can still do a job and likely they've either cannibalized some for spares or learned how to make their own, but it's no match against the RSAF F-15C's
d) Mig-29 is almost a point defense a/c due to very short range
e) Sukhois you note are not air superiority or counter air, their more counter ground
Bottom line question I would pose would be how many can Iran put up at once ? I'm thinking not many except on Air Force Day.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11708 posts, RR: 52 Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2974 times:
Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 10): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
The IIAF, at least on paper looks very impressive.
Are the Su-34s and MiG-29s they were supposed to have ordered the other year mere "rumours"?
Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 11): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
In 2008 the IIAF had 273 fighters including F-14A, F-4D/E, F-5E/F, Marage F-1, Mig-29A, Su-25K, Su-24MK, and others.
273 may seem like a big number but:
a) F-5s really can't be ranked as first-line a/c
b) what's the availability of the F-14s ?
c) F-4 can still do a job and likely they've either cannibalized some for spares or learned how to make their own, but it's no match against the RSAF F-15C's
d) Mig-29 is almost a point defense a/c due to very short range
e) Sukhois you note are not air superiority or counter air, their more counter ground
Here is the break down of what they had in 2008. They increased their 2005 fighter numbers by 7 fighters.
Spectre242 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 103 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2737 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 1): So the Typhoons would become the front-line air-defense interceptor and the Silent Eagle would become the new front-line strike fighter.
Perhaps, though I thought the F-15SE was being marketed more towards the air defence role also. This is the role where the LO mods of the SE are really effective because of the internal missile storage in the conformal tanks - which means less fuel space, and no wing tanks in the more stealthy config either, so shorter range.
Of course, the F-15SE would obviously be very capable as a strike fighter, just as all later model F-15s are, but it will lose much of it's stealthyness as a result (wing tanks, external bomb storage, etc). Would it be worth paying extra for the SE if you were primarily going to use it as a long range strike platform?
They are buying the same number of modern, world class multirole aircraft from different countries, with largely different weapons fits and different avionics systems. Maybe they are
a) trying to hedge their bets against any potential future export restrictions, or
b) working on the theory that a future enemy (Iran or whoever) will be more overwhelmed defensivly trying to combat (i.e. jam or disrupt) different US and European radar and weapon systems.
(I'm not sure how valid idea (b) is, it just crossed my mind.)
This is similar to the situation in the '80s when the Saudis bought Tornados ADVs and F-15Cs, but my understanding is that the Tornados ADVs were bought first when an F-15 export restriction was in place (is that correct?). They obviously found enough advanatges to operating two very different fleets of aircraft enough to do it all over again!
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11708 posts, RR: 52 Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2622 times:
Quoting Spectre242 (Reply 15): Of course, the F-15SE would obviously be very capable as a strike fighter, just as all later model F-15s are, but it will lose much of it's stealthyness as a result (wing tanks, external bomb storage, etc). Would it be worth paying extra for the SE if you were primarily going to use it as a long range strike platform?
It seems the F-15SE is an excellent duel role fighter, able to do the missions of both the F-15C and the F-15E.
Quoting Spectre242 (Reply 15): This is similar to the situation in the '80s when the Saudis bought Tornados ADVs and F-15Cs, but my understanding is that the Tornados ADVs were bought first when an F-15 export restriction was in place (is that correct?).
Correct, Carter did not want to sell the F-15C/D to bith Israel and Saudia Arabia. Reagan changed that, after the Tornado ADVs were ordered. Reagan later went on to sell them 5 Boeing E-3A+ AWACS (with F-108-201 engines) and 8 KE-3A+ tankers (also with F-108-201 engines). The IDF got more F-15C/Ds, F-16C/D/Is, and E-2C+, as well as Boeing manufactured air refueling Booms for their KC-707s from Reagan.
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