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US Army JCA Alternative?  
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13218 posts, RR: 77
Posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4826 times:

With the US Army part of the C-27 based Joint Cargo Aircraft project axed, probably in part due to the long history of controversy between the two services over operating fixed wing transports.
Could an old experimental program revived and suitably modernized, provide the US Army with a partial solution to their part of JCA?

http://www.chinook-helicopter.com/hi...ft/A_Models/65-07992/65-07992.html

Such a machine built today to the CH-47F standards, with the extra power, with the wing of this experimental model, would have some of the advantages in higher speed, smoother cruise, bigger payload of a fixed wing type, but with the advantage of not putting a whole new type, in a whole new size and weight fixed wing wise, into the US Army inventory.
Though you'd want to lose the retractable gondola of the old prototype.

But it would also be able to, when needed, bolster the rotary wing capability of the service too.
With that in mind, a dozen or so in RAF service wouldn't go amiss.
(Potentially not the only export customer either).

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1732 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4809 times:

They could go with the C-295... according to rumours, the Army was in favour of the C-295 while the USAF preferred the C-27J in the JCA competition.

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4761 times:

Jesus will they decide already!

The AKARNG definately needs to get rid of those crappy Sherpa's. The remote armories are very dependent on those aircraft for support, probably more then any other state.

At one point I think they where talking about getting the Spartan's on their own.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4851 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4751 times:



Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 1):
according to rumours, the Army was in favour of the C-295 while the USAF preferred the C-27J in the JCA competition.

Perhaps the smaller C-235 operated by the Coast Guard could sidestep the "turf rivalry" issue?

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"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13218 posts, RR: 77
Reply 4, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4733 times:



Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 1):
They could go with the C-295... according to rumours, the Army was in favour of the C-295 while the USAF preferred the C-27J in the JCA competition.

Surely the objection to the Army operating a transport aircraft of a size and weight more associated with the USAF, would still be objected to, regardless of the actual type?
Arguments raged in the 1960's about the Army operating the DH Caribou.
It's a turf war.

Hence a solution that could some of the job (which the Army is trying to do with CH-47's now) that the USAF could not object to, as well as enhancing the helicopter capability anyway.


User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4709 times:



Quoting GDB (Reply 4):
Surely the objection to the Army operating a transport aircraft of a size and weight more associated with the USAF, would still be objected to, regardless of the actual type?
Arguments raged in the 1960's about the Army operating the DH Caribou.
It's a turf war.

Absolutely it's a turf war. And it's the primary reason the US Army didn't go ahead with planned acquisition of large numbers of CV-8 (?) Buffaloes in the 1960s, after evaluating an initial batch of (I think) 5. They were looking at the Buff to replace the Caribou -- more capacity, power, speed, same outstanding short-field ability.

Only about 115 or so Buffaloes were built (Canada, Peru, Brazil, Nigeria, Kenya, to name some, operated them). A large order from the US Army would surely have resulted in other orders and solidified the Buff's reputation and place in history.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2933 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4676 times:



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 3):
Perhaps the smaller C-235 operated by the Coast Guard could sidestep the "turf rivalry" issue?

Don't forget the US (Special Forces) alreay operates the C-235. One was recently photographed in Kabul.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16877 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4647 times:

The original plan was for 78 JCA's split between the Army and the Air Force, now it seems the Air Force will get 38 and that will be the entire order. No Army JCA's.

The V-22 exceeds the performance of the C-23 in range, speed and in the amount of cargo. They could jump in on the Navy/Marine order.

[Edited 2009-10-04 07:47:05]


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4851 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days ago) and read 4626 times:

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 6):
Don't forget the US (Special Forces) alreay operates the C-235. One was recently photographed in Kabul.

Thank you. I didn't know that.

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Now I understand how opposition to the Army operating the type would come. By the way, what's that protrusion on the fuselage aft of the rear door in the first photo?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
The V-22 exceeds the performance of the C-23 in range, speed and in the amount of cargo. They could jump in on the Navy/Marine order.

It also considerably exceeds the costs of the alternative platforms.

[Edited 2009-10-04 09:28:34]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2933 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days ago) and read 4612 times:

That's the defensive countermeasures lump. 96-6046 was photographed in Kabul with it (photo in AFM September 2009 p.20. Must be something like what the Herks are being fitted with, flares/chaff and IR jammer.

You can see them well ont his bottom view
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The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4851 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4591 times:

Well then, it seems the Army would have to content themselves with the C-41A. That is, if they could still have more of the latest model (C212-400).....

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I think CASA still holds the manufacturing rights but is shifting fabrication work to Indonesia.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineJohnM From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4524 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
The V-22 exceeds the performance of the C-23 in range, speed and in the amount of cargo. They could jump in on the Navy/Marine
order.

The V-22 is a great way to waste some more money if the stimulus $ just wasn't enough.

The C-27 and the C-235 easily exceed every spec the V-22 has. The CH-47 can fill the vert lift mode for short hauls, the other two stiff wing platforms would be out flying while the V-22s would be sucking up hanger time and money. The 2 fixed wing planes could even self deploy, unlike the V-22 (they got a ship ride to the AOR).

Of course the Serpa is dated, but the V-22 will never happen for that role.


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