CheetahC From South Africa, joined Apr 2009, 69 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10138 times:
What are the top jet fighter aircraft in terms of air-to-air kills?
I assume that the F-15, F-4 and perhaps the Mirage III would be right up there, but what are the actual figures.
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3248 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10129 times:
I'll take a guess and say the Me-262 is up there on the list....
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9286 posts, RR: 13 Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10095 times:
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3248 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10056 times:
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 4): Not even close. The Me-262 saw only very limited use at the end of WWII.
The Luftwaffe was able to build close to 1400 Me-262s before the end of the war and it was in combat by the fall of '44. A number of pilots were multiple aces in the aircraft. Primary target for the 262 was 4 engine bombers.
Although records from the period are sketchy this paragraph from Boynes book, Messerschmitt Me-262 Arrow to the Future, probably sums things up pretty well:
Jagdgeschwader 7 ... was formed in Dec 1944; it stayed in operation until the end of the war, ... The III Gruppe of JG 7, ..., was able to maintain a full complement of 45 aircraft in action, and reportedly claimed more than 400 aircraft, including 300 four engine bombers shot down. While this claim is almost certainly too high, it was performance like this, in the last five months of the war, which is the best support for the opinions of such luminaries as Lt. General Galland, who feels that the introduction of the Messerschmitt Me-262 some 18 months earlier would have had a vital influence on the outcome of the war.
It's the more modern fighters that aren't even close.......
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3248 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10052 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 5): Me 262 downed more the 500 aircraft. (some say a lot more)
OMG! Mr Airbus and I agree on something!
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11708 posts, RR: 52 Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9922 times:
Quoting Spacepope (Reply 8): MiG 15, 17 and 21 are probably up there for the Soviet side.
F-86, F-15, F-16 and F-4 in western countries. Honorable mentions to the F-9F, F-105 and F-80.
I would also add the Marage F-1, the Buccanair, and the F-8, along with the already mentioned Me-262. Although not a jet, there was a USN flight of 2 A-1Es that got a gun kill on a Mig-19 in North Vietnam around 1966. I believe this is the only modern prop kill of a jet in modern time (yes, I know a lot of P-51s got Me-262 kills).
ThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1064 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9894 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9): I would also add the Marage F-1, the Buccanair, and the F-8, along with the already mentioned Me-262. Although not a jet, there was a USN flight of 2 A-1Es that got a gun kill on a Mig-19 in North Vietnam around 1966. I believe this is the only modern prop kill of a jet in modern time (yes, I know a lot of P-51s got Me-262 kills).
A RN Hawker Sea Fury tagged a MiG-15 during the Korean War...
Spacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2737 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9827 times:
Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 10): A RN Hawker Sea Fury tagged a MiG-15 during the Korean War...
As did USMC F-4U. B-29s seem to have more MiG kills than all of the F-84s combined.
There are plenty of aircraft with a few kills (SU-15 ,27, MiG 19, 23, 25, F-14, F-104, A-4, even an A-7 winged a MiG-17). There's also the Meteor, Mystere, and others...
Ant72LBA From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 411 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9594 times:
For the UK I'd assume that the Harrier is the only jet fighter with a significant number of kills (21 in the Falklands War - think these were all RN Sea Harrier kills?). Can't think of another jet fighter since WW2 that would have exceeded that? Can't think that the Lightning, Tornado ADV or Phantom would have scored any kills in RAF/RN service.
A bit of research on the Gloster Meteor suggests that most of its kills were by ground attack rather than air-air.
Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9558 times:
Interesting piece with references on the F86 - Mig15
By the end of hostilities, F-86 pilots were credited with shooting down 792 MiGs for a loss of only 78 Sabres, a victory ratio of 10:1.[22] More recent research by Dorr, Lake and Thompson has claimed the actual ratio is closer to 2:1.[23]
The Soviet claims of downing over 600 Sabres[24] together with the Chinese claims[25] are considered exaggerated by the USAF.[citation needed] Recent USAF records show that 224 F-86s were lost to all causes, including non-combat losses. But direct comparison of Sabre and MiG losses seem irrelevant, since many F-86s Sabres were lost due to enemy air defense fire, while MiGs were pure air-to-air fighters and had the advantage of only flying over friendly territory.
A recent RAND report[26] made reference to "recent scholarship" of F-86 vs. MiG-15 combat over Korea and concluded that the actual kill:loss ratio for the F-86 was 1.8:1 overall, and likely 1.3:1 against MiGs flown by Soviet pilots; however, the report has been under fire for various misrepresentations.[27]
Of the 41 American pilots who earned the designation of ace during the Korean war, all but one flew the F-86 Sabre, the exception being a Navy F4U Corsair night fighter pilot.
In war, truth is always was the first victim & that will probably always remain the case. Also for your own national forces. Something I always keep in mind with media war reports. They are supporting our boys out there. they have to. We are the customers & don't want anything else.
474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 10 Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9509 times:
The only aircraft a Grumman F-11F ever shot down shot down was its self.
The correct answer by the way is the F-86 Saber Jet.
Spudh From Ireland, joined Jul 2009, 274 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9440 times:
Of the modern jets Tom Coopers book on 'Iranian F-14 Tomcats units in combat' claims 159 confirmed air to air kills with 34 probables for the loss of 3 air to air and 4 to SAMs.
The F-15 is up at 100 - 0.
It would be interesting to get a handle on how many kills Iranian and Israeli F-4's have and add that to US kills during Vietnam.
Mirage III's have to be up there when you take Israeli and Iraqi kills.
ArniePie From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 1265 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9417 times:
Not the biggest killer among the jet-fighters but surely impressive was the F14 Tomcat.
It was also one of the few US fighters that was more successful outside US forces than under US service (mainly due to the lack of "opportunities").
In the original Gulf War from the end of the 70's till the late 80's it served with the Iranian AF under very difficult circumstances (most of its most experienced pilots fled to the west, lack of spares and suffering from early sabotage acts) but still was one of the most formidable air superiority fighters with a very favorable kill ratio and an extensive use of the few LR Phoenix rockets they had scoring between 60 and 70 kills with 70-90 AIM 54's launched, a lot of them against high profile fighters like the MiG23, MiG25 and early Mirage F1 models.
Also a lot of credit should go to the 50's and 60's Dassault models (Vatour, Ouragan, Mystere and Mirage III ) who where responsible for the fast victory in the 6 day war and the Mirage III again that was a big factor in the Yom Kippur surprise attack war in ' 73.
GPHOTO From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 818 posts, RR: 27 Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9389 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW DATABASE EDITOR
Quoting Ant72LBA (Reply 12): Can't think that the Lightning, Tornado ADV or Phantom would have scored any kills in RAF/RN service.
An RAF Phantom scored a kill with a Sidewinder on 25th May 1982. Unfortunately, the victim was RAF Jaguar GR1 XX963, the pilot ejected safely.
The Phantom crew were conducting a practice 'kill' on a pair of Jaguars, but a number of factors led to them losing situational awareness that they were carrying live ordnance on this occasion. Going for a camera-kill they actually managed the real thing.
StudeDave From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 392 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9266 times:
Quoting GPHOTO (Reply 17): Going for a camera-kill they actually managed the real thing.
You just gotta hate when that happens...
Classic planes, Classic trains, and Studebakers~~ what else is there???
Spudh From Ireland, joined Jul 2009, 274 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9204 times:
Wasn't there a case of an F-104 geting a guns kill on itself.
IIRC it must have taken an elevation shot and then accidently dived under its own line of fire, collecting a few cannon shells on their way back down for its trouble.
474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9140 times:
Quoting Spudh (Reply 20): Wasn't there a case of an F-104 geting a guns kill on itself.
Spacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2737 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9136 times:
Whereas the only attempted kill by an F-89 vs an out of control F6F drone ended up missing, just destroying property in California (AKA "The Battle of Palmdale")
474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 10 Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 9095 times:
Quoting Spacepope (Reply 22): Whereas the only attempted kill by an F-89 vs an out of control F6F drone ended up missing, just destroying property in California (AKA "The Battle of Palmdale")
I remember it will. One of the 208 2 1/4" folding fin rockets launched from the two F-89's in an attempt to shot down the F6F landed about 300 yards from my house. My brother led the investigators to it.
Cheetahc From South Africa, joined Apr 2009, 69 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8671 times:
Anybody know how many kills the Mirage III can account for?
25 Ptrjong: In which conflict would the Mirage F1 have shot down more than one or two aircraft? Ditto for the Buccaneer which was very much a bomber (great aircr
26 Spacepope: Mirage F-1 in Iran/Iraq war and South Africa vs. Mozambique? Buccaneer... I can't think of a single one.
28 RJAF: I beleive that two Equadorian Mirage F-1s shot down two Peruvian Su-22s in 1995.
29 CheetahC: That would be South Africa vs Angola/Cuba. The F-1C was responsible for 2xMiG-21.
30 KC135TopBoom: All correct. Don't forget the Mirage IIICJ also got a lot of kills while flying for the IDFAF in the 1967 "6 Day War". Israeli Air Force Mirage IIICJ
31 Ptrjong: I certainly didn't forget that... but the Mirage III/5 is a different beast.
32 L-188: And a AD-1 got one in Nam also. Seriously though going back to the original target, I would have to say that the 262, F-86, Mig 15/17 are all serious
33 ArniePie: How many kills did the Harrier score in the Falklands war? Also, did it score any other kills in any of the other wars it performed in (RAF, NAVY, USM
34 Mayor: Didn't the A-10 score an air to air kill in the first Gulf war??
35 L-188: I think it was against a helo, not a fast mover.
36 Spacepope: Yes, we covered the AD-1, having at least 2 kills (the first was officially shared) in Vietnam already. The 262 is problematic, though the rest of yo
37 Ptrjong: 20 air-to-air according to the British, putting the Harrier quite high on the list... Source: Huertas, Mirage III/5[Edited 2009-11-15 02:23:32 by ptr
Sponsor Message: 
From South Africa, joined Apr 2009, 69 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Jul 2007, 1113 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3248 posts, 
From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2737 posts, 
From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1064 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 411 posts, 
From Ireland, joined Jul 2009, 274 posts, 
From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 1265 posts, 
Sponsor Message: 
Printer friendly format
