ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12625 times:
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 4): Not even close. The Me-262 saw only very limited use at the end of WWII.
The Luftwaffe was able to build close to 1400 Me-262s before the end of the war and it was in combat by the fall of '44. A number of pilots were multiple aces in the aircraft. Primary target for the 262 was 4 engine bombers.
Although records from the period are sketchy this paragraph from Boynes book, Messerschmitt Me-262 Arrow to the Future, probably sums things up pretty well:
Jagdgeschwader 7 ... was formed in Dec 1944; it stayed in operation until the end of the war, ... The III Gruppe of JG 7, ..., was able to maintain a full complement of 45 aircraft in action, and reportedly claimed more than 400 aircraft, including 300 four engine bombers shot down. While this claim is almost certainly too high, it was performance like this, in the last five months of the war, which is the best support for the opinions of such luminaries as Lt. General Galland, who feels that the introduction of the Messerschmitt Me-262 some 18 months earlier would have had a vital influence on the outcome of the war.
It's the more modern fighters that aren't even close.......
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12019 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 12491 times:
Quoting Spacepope (Reply 8): MiG 15, 17 and 21 are probably up there for the Soviet side.
F-86, F-15, F-16 and F-4 in western countries. Honorable mentions to the F-9F, F-105 and F-80.
I would also add the Marage F-1, the Buccanair, and the F-8, along with the already mentioned Me-262. Although not a jet, there was a USN flight of 2 A-1Es that got a gun kill on a Mig-19 in North Vietnam around 1966. I believe this is the only modern prop kill of a jet in modern time (yes, I know a lot of P-51s got Me-262 kills).
ThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12464 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9): I would also add the Marage F-1, the Buccanair, and the F-8, along with the already mentioned Me-262. Although not a jet, there was a USN flight of 2 A-1Es that got a gun kill on a Mig-19 in North Vietnam around 1966. I believe this is the only modern prop kill of a jet in modern time (yes, I know a lot of P-51s got Me-262 kills).
A RN Hawker Sea Fury tagged a MiG-15 during the Korean War...
Ant72LBA From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 414 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days ago) and read 12164 times:
For the UK I'd assume that the Harrier is the only jet fighter with a significant number of kills (21 in the Falklands War - think these were all RN Sea Harrier kills?). Can't think of another jet fighter since WW2 that would have exceeded that? Can't think that the Lightning, Tornado ADV or Phantom would have scored any kills in RAF/RN service.
A bit of research on the Gloster Meteor suggests that most of its kills were by ground attack rather than air-air.
Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12127 times:
Interesting piece with references on the F86 - Mig15
By the end of hostilities, F-86 pilots were credited with shooting down 792 MiGs for a loss of only 78 Sabres, a victory ratio of 10:1. More recent research by Dorr, Lake and Thompson has claimed the actual ratio is closer to 2:1.
The Soviet claims of downing over 600 Sabres together with the Chinese claims are considered exaggerated by the USAF. Recent USAF records show that 224 F-86s were lost to all causes, including non-combat losses. But direct comparison of Sabre and MiG losses seem irrelevant, since many F-86s Sabres were lost due to enemy air defense fire, while MiGs were pure air-to-air fighters and had the advantage of only flying over friendly territory.
A recent RAND report made reference to "recent scholarship" of F-86 vs. MiG-15 combat over Korea and concluded that the actual kill:loss ratio for the F-86 was 1.8:1 overall, and likely 1.3:1 against MiGs flown by Soviet pilots; however, the report has been under fire for various misrepresentations.
Of the 41 American pilots who earned the designation of ace during the Korean war, all but one flew the F-86 Sabre, the exception being a Navy F4U Corsair night fighter pilot.
In war, truth is always was the first victim & that will probably always remain the case. Also for your own national forces. Something I always keep in mind with media war reports. They are supporting our boys out there. they have to. We are the customers & don't want anything else.
ArniePie From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 1265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11986 times:
Not the biggest killer among the jet-fighters but surely impressive was the F14 Tomcat.
It was also one of the few US fighters that was more successful outside US forces than under US service (mainly due to the lack of "opportunities").
In the original Gulf War from the end of the 70's till the late 80's it served with the Iranian AF under very difficult circumstances (most of its most experienced pilots fled to the west, lack of spares and suffering from early sabotage acts) but still was one of the most formidable air superiority fighters with a very favorable kill ratio and an extensive use of the few LR Phoenix rockets they had scoring between 60 and 70 kills with 70-90 AIM 54's launched, a lot of them against high profile fighters like the MiG23, MiG25 and early Mirage F1 models.
Also a lot of credit should go to the 50's and 60's Dassault models (Vatour, Ouragan, Mystere and Mirage III ) who where responsible for the fast victory in the 6 day war and the Mirage III again that was a big factor in the Yom Kippur surprise attack war in ' 73.
GPHOTO From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 826 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11958 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW DATABASE EDITOR
Quoting Ant72LBA (Reply 12): Can't think that the Lightning, Tornado ADV or Phantom would have scored any kills in RAF/RN service.
An RAF Phantom scored a kill with a Sidewinder on 25th May 1982. Unfortunately, the victim was RAF Jaguar GR1 XX963, the pilot ejected safely.
The Phantom crew were conducting a practice 'kill' on a pair of Jaguars, but a number of factors led to them losing situational awareness that they were carrying live ordnance on this occasion. Going for a camera-kill they actually managed the real thing.
474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11664 times:
Quoting Spacepope (Reply 22): Whereas the only attempted kill by an F-89 vs an out of control F6F drone ended up missing, just destroying property in California (AKA "The Battle of Palmdale")
I remember it will. One of the 208 2 1/4" folding fin rockets launched from the two F-89's in an attempt to shot down the F6F landed about 300 yards from my house. My brother led the investigators to it.