KhenleyDIA From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 411 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10985 times:
I keep seeing all these images of the old F-4s, F-111, etc. mothballed and I begin wondering, how long some of them will be mothballed for and for what reasons?
I know it is good to have spares, but many of the planes are very out of date. I know that with the bombers they have to cut them up into 5 pieces and leave them for 90 days, but what about the smaller planes?
I would love to hear what those with real knowledge have to say.
Thanks,
KhenleyDIA
Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11738 posts, RR: 51 Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10987 times:
Most of the B-52Gs had to be cut up for START varification. The F-111s, and FB-111A/F-111Gs or a select few of them are being retained for spares for the RAAF F/RF-111Cs and currently stored F-111Gs.
The same for the F-4s, many allies still fly the F-4 like Greece, Turkey, Israel, and Egypt.
BTW, the USAF F/FB/EF-111 fleet was mothballed as a budget cut under Clinton in the early to mid 1990s.
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10989 times:
This pix is a pretty good example of aircraft being reclaimed for parts vs scrapped outright, especially the A-10s. Not sure what's going on with the Convairs though...
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10958 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1): The same for the F-4s, many allies still fly the F-4 like Greece, Turkey, Israel, and Egypt.
Right, and I think they're still converting a good amount of them to QF-4 target drones, aren't they?
FlybaurLAX From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 634 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 10905 times:
Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 3): Right, and I think they're still converting a good amount of them to QF-4 target drones, aren't they?
Spacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2744 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 10909 times:
Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 3): Right, and I think they're still converting a good amount of them to QF-4 target drones, aren't they?
Not so many anymore. They've burned through all the F-4 G and E airframes, and are working through the last of the RF-4Cs. You'll see QF-16A/Bs in the near future, espescially after they blast through a bunch during JSF weapons qualifications.
Spacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2744 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 10908 times:
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 2): This pix is a pretty good example of aircraft being reclaimed for parts vs scrapped outright, especially the A-10s.
Those A-10s may fly again. There is a wing factory at DMAFB where the oldest A-10s witht he "Thin Skin" wings that were subject to cracking are having brand new wings fabricated and installed, all while being uppdated to A-10C standard.
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10829 times:
I dunno.. those A-10s are in the green scheme. Probably haven't flown in 15 years or better. I agree though that the wings may fly again - I'd guess that's why we see no A-10 wings in the pix...
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RFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6189 posts, RR: 25 Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10805 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1): BTW, the USAF F/FB/EF-111 fleet was mothballed as a budget cut under Clinton in the early to mid 1990s.
The SAC FB-111 fleet was retired under BRAC 1988 - the Reagan Administration initiative - completed in 1990.
Some of the others F-111 cuts came from BRAC 88, the rest from BRAC 91. While Clinton was president when the cuts were completed, the decisions to make the cuts and eliminate the aircraft came before he was elected.
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10800 times:
Quoting Spudh (Reply 8): Is that a canberra top middle above the 707's?
It's a B-57 modified to the WB-57 variant. Distant relative of the Canberra, built by Martin if I'm not mistaken.
Cpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 44 Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10792 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1): The F-111s, and FB-111A/F-111Gs or a select few of them are being retained for spares for the RAAF F/RF-111Cs and currently stored F-111Gs.
We actually took a reasonable number for F-111G aircraft and got them flying again as training aircraft (operational conversion) for the F-111C (RF-111C).
All G model planes have been retired now - and one has gone to a museum thankfully. There are still some C models flying about, and they are a welcome sight to see. It won't be long before they too are retired.
So sad that it wouldn't be possible to keep one or two flying under the protection of one of the well known Australian aircraft restoration museums. There are a couple that well accomplish this task.
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10587 times:
Quoting 747classic (Reply 12): I found this,very recent, pictures of Davis-Monthan AFB on A-net
Strange that those C-123s appear to be in better shape than the C-5s...
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JohnM From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 310 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10580 times:
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 13): Strange that those C-123s appear to be in better shape than the C-5s...
I would think the C-123s aren't being messed with since there are very few out in the world that would require parts. How many are in flying condition in the world, a few at best? So they would be left alone. The C-5s on the other hand are being picked over pretty hard to keep the rest of the fleet going. I saw another pic of DM somewhere that one of the C-5s was almost picked apart, and not much left of the old girl.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11738 posts, RR: 51 Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10580 times:
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 2): This pix is a pretty good example of aircraft being reclaimed for parts vs scrapped outright, especially the A-10s. Not sure what's going on with the Convairs though...
Those are either T-29s or C-131s, both types are on museum hold and FMS hold.
Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 3): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
The same for the F-4s, many allies still fly the F-4 like Greece, Turkey, Israel, and Egypt.
Right, and I think they're still converting a good amount of them to QF-4 target drones, aren't they?
Yes, but I think most of the F-4s are on hold for spares now. There are RF-4Cs, F-4D/EGs and German F-4Fs at DM.
Quoting Spudh (Reply 8): Is that a canberra top middle above the 707's?
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 10): It's a B-57 modified to the WB-57 variant. Distant relative of the Canberra, built by Martin if I'm not mistaken.
Actually that is one of the former USAF RB-57Fs, as both NASA WB-57Fs are still with NASA and still flyable. My guess is the USAF RB-57Fs are spares for the two NASA WB-57Fs.
Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 9): The SAC FB-111 fleet was retired under BRAC 1988 - the Reagan Administration initiative - completed in 1990.
Correct, but about half of them became TAC, and some later became RAAF F-111Gs. All of the former SAC FB-111As went to AMARC with between 6000 and 7000 hours on them. The best ones became F-111Gs and had the SRAM missile equipment and wiring removed.
MechatNEW From United States of America, joined May 2005, 83 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10575 times:
The FB-111As later called F-111Gs, and F-111As were retired by 1991. The F-111Ds by the end of 1992. The were plans to keep some F-111Es, and most F-111Fs which had been updated for a long while. The were retired very suddenly in 1995/1996, while Clinton was President, the EF-111As went on 1997.
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10572 times:
Quoting JohnM (Reply 14): I would think the C-123s aren't being messed with since there are very few out in the world that would require parts.
Thus making them excellent candidates for the scrapper. I wonder why DRMO hasn't put them out for bid?
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Revelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 10565 posts, RR: 21 Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10568 times:
Quoting 747classic (Reply 12): I found this,very recent, pictures of Davis-Monthan AFB on A-net :
So sad to see very expensive B1s rotting in the sun.
Given the fact that the whole fleet will be retired before the B52s and B2s it would seem Carter was right and Reagan was wrong!
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10506 times:
JohnM From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 310 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10475 times:
Quoting Spacepope (Reply 19): They are the old Agent Orange birds, basically a Superfund site in airplane form. They are pretty much left alone.
With that info, I think I'll leave them off my classic war bird wish list! Maybe I can find some better iron out there to bid on.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11738 posts, RR: 51 Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9963 times:
That still doesn't fully covers who may want the T-29s and C-131s kept around. They were not Ranch Hand aircraft.
Venus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1410 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9940 times:
Alot of 62 and 63 model KC-135A's still intact, are they on hold for FMS ?
I would help you but it is not in the contract
25 Spacepope: Erm, didn't you say they were museum holds on reply #15?
26 Lumberton: I very much doubt it. They would require a lot of re-work and re-engining.
27 Spudh: Wow!! That photo puts some perspective on the sheer size of a C5!!! It looks big enough that you could land one of those little trainer aircraft insid
28 747classic: These KC-135E's are still well preserved, but this C-5A looks already very worn down. A lot of spare parts are already used from here (female ?), she
29 KC135TopBoom: Yes, I did say that, and some of them are on hold for museums, but there seems to be 4 of them, and atlest 3 of those seem to be completely intact, i
30 Loran: Aren't recently stored aircraft (e.g. F-14s) kept in a different mothballing state to enable return to service if required? I thought that they are pu
31 FlyingSicilian: Yes both are based in Houston for JSC at Ellington Airport (formerly Ellington Field and before that Ellington AFB)
32 Kingairta: All the F-14s have been destroyed. There are no usable parts. The only ones left are at museums. Reason being spare parts were finding their way over
33 KC135TopBoom: There are also other provisions to keep an airplane type in storage, such as if they may be needed to be returned to service after they retire from a
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It won't be long before they too are retired.
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