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Present State Of Play With Galileo  
User currently offlineGRIVely From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 139 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6526 times:

I am an aerospace company manager involved in the satellite communications industry. I was wondering what is the present state of play with the Galileo project as I haven't seen much about it in the press recently. Would appreciate any comments from the community on what's up.

Thanks,

The GRIV

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineprebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6431 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6502 times:

The whole program stalled for economic reasons back in 2007.

Since then the EU Commision has taken more direct control, and current plans are to have the system semi-operational in 2014.

But funding hasn't been found for that plan yet, so we can be sure that it will slip much further to the right. In the current economic climate all EU horsepower are assigned to pull Greece an other countries away from the bankruptcy cliff, and Galileo has fallen way down on the priority list.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1858 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6444 times:

I'm not sure how many people would pay for the service if it's not up before GPS III. You can afford to let your design age for seven years before you use it now days.


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6430 times:

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 1):
The whole program stalled for economic reasons back in 2007.
Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 2):
I'm not sure how many people would pay for the service if it's not up before GPS III. You can afford to let your design age for seven years before you use it now days.

Right. You can argue that for many of the European "hero projects" (A400M, A380, Beagle 2, etc.) there are legitimate reasons for continuing production and development. Galileo has none other than workshare and national pride.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineShmertspionem From India, joined Aug 2006, 453 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6412 times:

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 1):

But funding hasn't been found for that plan yet

evidently it has - the EU chopped agricultural programmes to find 3.4 billion Euros - not enough but it will still have to do. Norway brought in some lil funding in 2009 too.

http://www.gpsdaily.com/reports/Norw...Us_Galileo_satnav_project_999.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7335833.stm


Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 2):
I'm not sure how many people would pay for the service if it's not up before GPS III

It's primarily intended as a military programme and all the EU seem to be backing this one. The service charges in all likelihood will be competitive and presumably European car manufacturers like ferrai, audi, merc, bmw, jag, RR, citroen, renault, skoda, VW etc etc, plane manufacturers like EADS, diamond and dassault, weapons and comm systems manufacturers like finmeccanica and thales will probably shift their offered GPS consoles to this system. So commercial prospects will be bright.

Remember just as American taxpayers like their tax dollars to subsidise Boeing jobs, EU tax payers like their tax dollars to subsidise European jobs.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 3):
Galileo has none other than workshare and national pride.

Why is it so difficult for you to accept that people outside the US can pursue programmes out of a sheer thirst for knowledge and to build up their knowledge base and industrial capacity? what would you have the Euros do? go back to the caves of lascaux and paint walls?

I know A-net moderators find such statements charming when they come from Americans - but do you realise how blatantly xenophobic and parochialist they sound to others ???



Vi veri universum vivus vici
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6403 times:

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 4):
Why is it so difficult for you to accept that people outside the US can pursue programmes out of a sheer thirst for knowledge and to build up their knowledge base and industrial capacity? what would you have the Euros do? go back to the caves of lascaux and paint walls?

Listen, if the Europeans would be up-front about it and just call a spade a spade, then that might be something. But the governments in question are trying to suggest that Galileo can be a profitable entity, and that fees might be charged! Please!



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineShmertspionem From India, joined Aug 2006, 453 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6394 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
Europeans would be up-front about it and just call a spade a spade

They do - a lot more than Americans on this forum - if anything I've seen here the euro's are much more capable of mea culpas than Americans are.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
the governments in question are trying to suggest that Galileo can be a profitable entity

It probably can be - if you read my reply above directed at nomad22 - you'll see exactly why - its the basic dynamics of patriotism plus a captive market plus that its intended to be more accurate than Navstar and Glonass.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
might be charged

Might - not will - it all depends on how the nav systems market develops.

I-Tunes store is still successful even though all the songs it charges for, can be downloaded and put on your ipod free of cost with limewire.

[Edited 2010-03-08 20:44:34]


Vi veri universum vivus vici
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6332 times:

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 6):
I-Tunes store is still successful even though all the songs it charges for, can be downloaded and put on your ipod free of cost with limewire.

With Limewire, you're breaking the law. Galileo is intended for paid use for extra service. I'm not saying they won't charge for it, but I doubt people will pay when GPS is free.The aforementioned GPS III service, which will now debut at about the same time, will provide better performance for free, so any technical or business merits for Galileo are mooted.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineShmertspionem From India, joined Aug 2006, 453 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6257 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 7):
better performance for free

point of view - not fact .... these things are usually very subjective.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 7):
technical or business merits for Galileo

I believe the business merit lies in breaking the US monopoly - its called competition - the usual beneficiary of competition is the consumer. What business profits has the US military reaped for launching satellites? The Gallileo like the Navstars is first and foremost a military system...... the revenue streams .....as they develop will lie in leasing out its more sensitive capabilities to participating foreign governments like India and China desperate to get out of the Russo-American duopoly.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 7):
but I doubt people will pay when GPS is free.

I personally doubt they will too - but we're assuming the world is full of rational people. Remember there are heaps of stupid people willing to pay 40,000 USD for a Hermes handbag, 8000 USD for ferragamo shoes and 12,000 USD for Panerai watches. America produces the The mustang and the saleen and yet many people choose to buy ferrari, bugatti and lamborghini. Therefore market forces will decide . maybe it'll be a tiered free for general usage (5 meter accuracy) , 100 dollars pa for high end features on BMW's and S Classes. etc etc etc.

who knows? but talking about price and capability is a red herring because all we can do now is idle speculation till the system comes on-line and we know the fee structure (or lack thereof)

Quoting N328KF (Reply 7):
With Limewire, you're breaking the law

Lets just say lime-wire users are conscientious objectors who don't want to be ripped of by big businesses................or worse still subsidise the artists drug habits. BTW the piracy party is gaining momentum in Sweden - they won a heck of a lot of votes on that platform and it is becoming a significant movement in northern Europe. What is the law today may not be the law tomorrow.



Vi veri universum vivus vici
User currently offlineautothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1595 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6250 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 3):
Right. You can argue that for many of the European "hero projects" (A400M, A380, Beagle 2, etc.) there are legitimate reasons for continuing production and development. Galileo has none other than workshare and national pride.

You can also argue abou US "hero" projects like the F-22,F-35,KC-767,747-8I etc. .  

Utter nonsense, the idea behind Galileo is to create a immense new industry and services which will create thousends of new jobs and not just in Europe. It will also make the rest of the world independent of the military controlled GPS system which the US military can shutdown as they wish.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 7):
I'm not saying they won't charge for it, but I doubt people will pay when GPS is free

Thats because you have no idea about Galileo program , it will feature a unprecedented precision and new technologies to sectors like aviation, mass transportation systems, naval sector, agricultural sectors etc...

For the average user the normal GPS service is surely enough sophisticated. But one task of the Galileo will also be to strenghtend/backup the GPS system.



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6159 times:

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 8):
I believe the business merit lies in breaking the US monopoly - its called competition - the usual beneficiary of competition is the consumer.

And it's a monopoly that has been paid for by the US taxpayer, but has been provided for free use for all.

Quoting autothrust (Reply 9):
Thats because you have no idea about Galileo program , it will feature a unprecedented precision and new technologies to sectors like aviation, mass transportation systems, naval sector, agricultural sectors etc...

I have read plenty about it. Please do not assume that I have not. It was intended to surpass GPS IIR/F, but will wind up running smack-dab into GPS III, which is significantly better, and thus Galileo's business case should be put into question.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6079 times:

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 8):
I believe the business merit lies in breaking the US monopoly - its called competition - the usual beneficiary of competition is the consumer.

I'm curious what benefit you see going to the common consumer, given that a highly capable free service is already available to them. That free service is already being improved to at least technical parity with Galileo...so what benefit?

Quoting autothrust (Reply 9):
he idea behind Galileo is to create a immense new industry and services which will create thousends of new jobs and not just in Europe. It will also make the rest of the world independent of the military controlled GPS system which the US military can shutdown as they wish.

Which touches on the REAL justification for Galileo. It enables the EU to produce precision munitions that can be marketed to...ahem...clients who would rather not have weapons that the US could disable. That's where the real money is - Europeans are just plain naive if they think this project is driven by altruism.  



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlineShmertspionem From India, joined Aug 2006, 453 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6079 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 10):
but has been provided for free use for all

The geopolitical - parallel economic advantages that it has reaped are many. Its a bit like cocaine really - the drug dealer gives you the first snort for free - when u're addicted he starts extorting you.

The economic benefits of GPS were not direct - rather they went like this. Buy F-16 and F-18 with Jdam and we'll give you round the clock access to GPS - but buy eurofighter or rafale we'll give you targetting data in peace time but then in wartime we might just impose sanctions on you and encrypt it denying you anything. If you buy American you're obviously an ally so dont set foot outside without our permission.

BTW that's how the Russians apparently market their aircraft. The unverified and unsubstantiated rumour is that if India does not choose the MiG-35 for the MRCA competition GLONASS navigation MIGHT not be provided for previously supplied aircraft and missiles.



Vi veri universum vivus vici
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6079 times:

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 11):
Which touches on the REAL justification for Galileo. It enables the EU to produce precision munitions that can be marketed to...ahem...clients who would rather not have weapons that the US could disable. That's where the real money is - Europeans are just plain naive if they think this project is driven by altruism.

Exactly. Europe knows that the US is unlikely to disable/hamper GPS access for the EU/NATO members that might find themselves in a combat nation, but the same is not true for the client state-customers of Thales, EADS, BAe, and Finmeccanica.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6065 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 13):
Exactly.

Yep...our non-US/non-EU participant Shmertspionem sees the truth of this, although expressed with ample cynism:

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 12):
The economic benefits of GPS were not direct - rather they went like this. Buy F-16 and F-18 with Jdam and we'll give you round the clock access to GPS - but buy eurofighter or rafale we'll give you targetting data in peace time but then in wartime we might just impose sanctions on you and encrypt it denying you anything. If you buy American you're obviously an ally so dont set foot outside without our permission



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6043 times:

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 12):
The economic benefits of GPS were not direct - rather they went like this. Buy F-16 and F-18 with Jdam and we'll give you round the clock access to GPS - but buy eurofighter or rafale we'll give you targetting data in peace time but then in wartime we might just impose sanctions on you and encrypt it denying you anything. If you buy American you're obviously an ally so dont set foot outside without our permission.

Do you recall that the US-EU agreement governing Galileo had two major provisions?

1. Galileo had to be constructed such to not interfere with GPS frequencies. It was going to initially trample. I don't know what the EU was thinking when they started along those lines, at first.
2. The US has the right to have Galileo degraded in certain areas under certain circumstances (likely, a conflict involving the US.) Otherwise, the US would have insisted upon being able to intercept the spacecraft. So that nullifies any argument for Galileo on the grounds of independence from the US "stranglehold" on GPS.

Whether those arguments are correct or incorrect, those are the facts.

If you don't want US influence on your navigation system, your only real choices are Beidou/Compass, GLONASS, or if you're India, IRNSS.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineShmertspionem From India, joined Aug 2006, 453 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6010 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 15):
Do you recall that the US-EU agreement governing Galileo had two major provisions?

No i was not aware of this ... do you have reference/sources on these two points? I ask you this because it would seem very foolish for the EU to give up such prized home assets to foreign censorship - especially when such conditions would negate any trump card for euro defence sales abroad.

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 14):
ample cynism

Who me????  



Vi veri universum vivus vici
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5981 times:

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 16):
No i was not aware of this ... do you have reference/sources on these two points?
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...?channel=awst&id=news/03084wna.xml
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/milspace-04zc.html

AvWeek actually had a ton of detail on the subject at the time this was all being negotiated, but much of it is subscription, unfortunately.

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 16):
I ask you this because it would seem very foolish for the EU to give up such prized home assets to foreign censorship

The EU was likely negotiating from a position of weakness. Whether that weakness still exists could be debated.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1858 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5964 times:

I'd have a hard time imagining Americans not wanting a system of their own and under their control if Europe had developed something like GPS first. The reasons for Galileo might be more patriotism and politics than financial, but there's nothing wrong with that. I have no doubt we'd respond the same way.
There's nothing wrong with being friends and competitors. Keeps us both sharp.



Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineautothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1595 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5924 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 10):
I have read plenty about it. Please do not assume that I have not. It was intended to surpass GPS IIR/F, but will wind up running smack-dab into GPS III, which is significantly better, and thus Galileo's business case should be put into question

Sorry but the nonsense you posted makes me assume that you have just readed what you need to make your spin look more credible.
How can you assume that GPS III will be better? The Galileo Hydrogen Masers are a magnitude more advanced then US counterparts, the swiss made passive hydrogen masers weights 15 kgs.(US hydrogen maser more then 200kg)

PHM MAIN PERFORMANCES

Output frequency: 10.002857407 MHz (fH / 142)
- Frequency accuracy: better than 1·10-10
- Output level: +7 dBm (two outputs)
- Frequency drift, per year: ≤ 3x10-12
- Allan deviation, 1s ≤τ≤ 104s: ≤ 1x10-12 x τ -1/2
- Temperature sensitivity: ≤ 3x10-15/°C
- Magnetic sensitivity: ≤ 2x10-14/Gauss
- Main Bus voltage sensitivity: ≤ 3x10-15/V
- Power consumption: ≤ 60W (over operating temperature range)
- Stay-alive power: ≤ 5W
- Total mass: 15 kg goal
- Size (w x l x h): 210 x 500 x 250 mm3
- Qualification temperature range: -15 to +20°C
- Orbit (MEO) life: 12 years
- Deviation: one second in three million years

http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/ptti2002/paper14.pdf

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 11):
Which touches on the REAL justification for Galileo. It enables the EU to produce precision munitions that can be marketed to...ahem...clients who would rather not have weapons that the US could disable.

More BS, first Galileo will be controlled by a civilian organisation unlike GPS. Public Regulated Service channel will be same as GPS coded. Second US can produce itself precision munitions with GPS III and sell it to anyone THEY want so whats your point? Third such clients can buy it elsewhere like Russia.



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5848 times:

Quoting autothrust (Reply 19):
More BS, first Galileo will be controlled by a civilian organisation unlike GPS. Public Regulated Service channel will be same as GPS coded. Second US can produce itself precision munitions with GPS III and sell it to anyone THEY want so whats your point? Third such clients can buy it elsewhere like Russia

You are utterly missing the point. You said:

Quoting autothrust (Reply 9):
the idea behind Galileo is to create a immense new industry and services which will create thousends of new jobs and not just in Europe. It will also make the rest of the world independent of the military controlled GPS system which the US military can shutdown as they wish.

"Such clients" want a system that is not susceptible to shutdown by the USA, and Galileo will provide that for them. Makes no difference that Galileo is a civilian organization - it can and will be used for military purposes. Do you deny that?

Perhaps "please don't make bombs" stickers on the components would help maintain the veneer of innocence.  




Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlineprebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6431 posts, RR: 54
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5763 times:

Several posters on this thread seem to imagine that Galileo is planned to be a "competing" system to GPS. It is not. If that was the only capability, then it has already failed.

Many years after Galileo is operational we will most likely still use GPS on our $100 Garmin or TomTom street navigators. Galileo is about an entirely new level of acuracy, (or it's a failure).

It's about robots plowing and harvesting the fields. It's about telling escavator operators on his screen how many feet and inches he is away from rupturing phone lines or natural gas pipes etc. And a hundred other such things. It is about digitalizing all surface and underground infrastructures in cities and using those data in a way to make modifications more efficienly and safer.

And then it is supposed to offer air and sea traffic a stand-alone navigation tool with adequate redundancy and failure tolerance. We will see if that goal can be reached, that's a very ambitious one.

The military aspects - capability to be shut down, degrading or offgrading etc. - has of course been considered. Details about that are classified. Except that the USA has been granted a capability to jam the system over North America without having full authority over world wide system control.

And the ambition is also to make it a cost efficient tool in civil use.

Whether the ambitions can be met, both physically and economically, I am not convinced.

But in any case, it is not just redoing GPS. And it may take a very long time to establish the system. Also because funding hasn't been secured.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineShmertspionem From India, joined Aug 2006, 453 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5729 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 10):
GPS III, which is significantly better,

Matter of opinion - and should be stated as opinion : Forum Rules

Quoting N328KF (Reply 15):
2. The US has the right to have Galileo degraded in certain areas under certain circumstances (likely, a conflict involving the US.) Otherwise, the US would have insisted upon being able to intercept the spacecraft. So that nullifies any argument for Galileo on the grounds of independence from the US "stranglehold" on GPS
Quoting N328KF (Reply 15):
Whether those arguments are correct or incorrect, those are the facts.

That is speculation not fact - please do not state it as such. I quote from the first article
Quote:
Whether this could cover the use by Washington of reversible measures against elements of the Galileo network, or indeed certain national users, in a time of crisis remains unanswered

and the implication that agreement was not reached from the second article you provided



Quote:
"They made it clear that they would attempt what they called reversible action, but, if necessary, they would use irreversible action," the official was quoted as saying.
.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 15):
If you don't want US influence on your navigation system, your only real choices are Beidou/Compass, GLONASS, or if you're India, IRNSS

And yet China and India have joined the Gallileo programme. Probably to gain knowledge of the advanced technologies in use way beyond their own capabilities.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 17):
The EU was likely negotiating from a position of weakness. Whether that weakness still exists could be debated.

Yes those articles were written in 2004 when it was still a private venture. Since 2006-7 The EU has effectively nationalised it.

However a sound logic exists for America to insist on "reversible measures" . Since most of the EU is part of NATO, they would be violating their NATO commitments to common defence. Perhaps that's why the commercial stream is being given equal importance in order to sidestep military regulations. I.E effectively pass this off as dual use technology. They can then wave WTO commercial regulations to create a legal lacuna vis-a-vis NATO obligations and wave plausible deniability in America's face.

Basically what will happen is this

President Obama : Hello Sarkozy??? How's Carla? Yes cud u pls turn off Galileo cuz the Chinese are using it to bomb my forces stationed in Japan. U are part of NATO you know ?

President Sarkozy: Regards to Michelle. Really? the last i checked little Chinese children were using it play hide and seek. Sorry Mr President but i cannot bear to see the tears of those little Chinese children. We are part of WTO too you know?

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 20):
Perhaps "please don't make bombs" stickers on the components would help maintain the veneer of innocence


U hit the nail on its head.

As for the threat of "irreversible measures" China has since 2009 demonstrated ASAT capabilities. So any knocking off of Chinese satellites or satellites that the Chinese depend on will bring about retaliation.

Moreover India is also developing an ASAT capability and the S-500 is speculated to offer this as well against LEO satellites. Remember the Navstars, Glonass and Gallileo's are all visible since they emit pulses, unlike the Lacrosse intelligence satellites which play with light refraction and other optical illusions to disappear from sight.


Lastly regarding commercial benefits .... heres a quote from the article. It sure as hell seems a lucrative market to compete in.
Quote:
Previously, officials touted only the commercial benefit of Galileo, which is expected to tap into a burgeoning market for satellite positioning systems that doubled from 10 billion euros in 2002 to 20 billion euros in 2003


[Edited 2010-03-09 19:30:57]


Vi veri universum vivus vici
User currently offlineShmertspionem From India, joined Aug 2006, 453 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5713 times:

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 21):
It's about robots plowing and harvesting the fields. It's about telling escavator operators on his screen how many feet and inches he is away from rupturing phone lines or natural gas pipes etc. And a hundred other such things. It is about digitalizing all surface and underground infrastructures in cities and using those data in a way to make modifications more efficienly and safer.

Good to know but do we have a source/reference for this?



Vi veri universum vivus vici
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12457 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5634 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 15):
If you don't want US influence on your navigation system, your only real choices are Beidou/Compass, GLONASS, or if you're India, IRNSS.
Quoting autothrust (Reply 19):
first Galileo will be controlled by a civilian organisation unlike GPS.
Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 20):
"Such clients" want a system that is not susceptible to shutdown by the USA, and Galileo will provide that for them. Makes no difference that Galileo is a civilian organization - it can and will be used for military purposes. Do you deny that?

All of these quotes seem to presume EU won't degrade Galileo based on its own political perogatives.

I can see how some may have some historical rationale for the feeling that the US is a bad actor and EU is a good actor, but can't see the rationale to presume that the EU will always be a good actor.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
25 Post contains links prebennorholm : The military aspects of Galileo has been dealt with. Details are classified. There are no good and bad guyes. The principles of US authority over Gal
26 Aesma : Well of course it can go both ways. The problem is not really that the US can do what they want, it's that there is no other option at the moment. It'
27 Shmertspionem : examples? the last I checked the EU is too disunited with no realistic independent power projection capabilities - except maybe send the Charles De G
28 Revelation : I agree there are no good or bad guys but some are saying the reason to rely on Galileo is that the EU are the good guys and the US are the bad guys.
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