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US Army Helicopter Pilots  
User currently offlineUAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9963 times:

Is there any Army helicopter pilots on here? If so can you tell me what it's like to fly them and all that? thanks


Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9943 times:

Yes, there is one in particular who, I believe, is still an active-duty Blackhawk driver. He's a friendly guy and an endless source of info on Army aviation and rotary-wing aviation in general. I'm sure he'll be along soon.  


Airliners.net Moderator Team
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9914 times:

Quoting UAL727NE (Thread starter):
Is there any Army helicopter pilots on here?

There's a few of us.

Quoting UAL727NE (Thread starter):
If so can you tell me what it's like to fly them and all that? thanks

Better than flying circuits at FL280 in a RC-12.

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 1):
He's a friendly guy

lol, funny because I've been told that I'm a bit of an asshole!


User currently offlineUAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9870 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
Better than flying circuits at FL280 in a RC-12.

Well I was hoping for alittle more detail then that, but thanks anyway.



Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9839 times:

Quoting UAL727NE (Reply 3):

Well I was hoping for alittle more detail then that, but thanks anyway.

Perhaps more specific areas of interest would yield responses more to your needs?


User currently offlineDonnieCS From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9798 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
Better than flying circuits at FL280 in a RC-12.

but not has good as flying a C-12 or UC-35 and getting the good TDY...hehe



Charlie - Gulfstream flight mechanic
User currently offlineUAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9797 times:

Quoting GST (Reply 4):
Perhaps more specific areas of interest would yield responses more to your needs?

Well everything about it. What the training is like, Whats it like flying with one hand on the collective? That how you spell it? Flying it in turbulance, stuff like that.



Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
User currently offlineUAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9796 times:

Whats the C-12, UC-35?


Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
User currently offlineArmy15P From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9794 times:

I believe there are actually quite a few Army Aviators on the site. With a wide range of platforms between us. I'm a Black Hawk driver myself, Chief Warrant Officer 2 flavored. In regards to your question, your asking a very generic question and seem to be expecting a very detailed answer. In Army rotary wing aviation alone we have 5 aircraft platforms. For instance, you have a widely ranging base of knowledge so far in this post alone. I'm early on in my "progression" with the Hawk. Just was singed off RL1, which basically means I'm now a fully mission capable pilot, and I'm working my way towards being a Pilot in Command. So my area of knowledge regarding flying and what its like to fly will be alot less then UH60. To answer your question though, what is it like to fly the Hawk? Mentally demanding, and absolutely the greatest thing I've ever done. Even though the birds I play with are 30 odd years old, they do some pretty amazing things in the air.

User currently offlineDonnieCS From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9769 times:

Quoting UAL727NE (Reply 7):
Whats the C-12, UC-35?

C-12 is a Beechcraft King Air B200 (or B350 and B1900 though vary rare)
UC-35 is a Citation V (Encore or Ultra model)

[Edited 2010-03-28 13:29:50]

[Edited 2010-03-28 13:30:17]


Charlie - Gulfstream flight mechanic
User currently offlineUAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9764 times:

Thanks Army15p! So did you choose the UH60 or did you get assigned to it? Whats it like on takeoff, how does it handle inflight? I guess thats what I'm looking for just detailed about whatever helicopter you may fly.


Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9748 times:

Quoting DonnieCS (Reply 5):

but not has good as flying a C-12 or UC-35 and getting the good TDY...hehe

As for the TDY, I'm not familiar with how much fix-wing guys log, but for me - I go TDY a lot. And yes, the money is great!

But as for the greatness of flying VIPs around... I just don't see the thrill. They're schedules are at the mercy of the VIP, and change at moment's notice. They take-off, engage the autopilot, and play cards. It's a very sterile, benign job. But hey, a lot of guys get off on that, and good for them. Just like I would never want to fly a Chinook or an Apache, I wouldn't want to fly fix-wing VIP. **snooze**

Quoting UAL727NE (Reply 6):
Well everything about it. What the training is like, Whats it like flying with one hand on the collective? That how you spell it? Flying it in turbulance, stuff like that.

It's a full spectrum flight training curriculum, ground and air. Basic rotary introduction, instruments, air scout tactics and NVG introduction, then advancement to your primary airframe. Although the exact structure may be different these days, I went through the legacy training, and now they have Flight School XXI course. Army15P might be able to expand on what's new.

As for flying with a collective? It's really not a big deal.

And as for turbulence, it's like any fixed wing flying... you bounce around a lot, and try not to spill your coffee.


User currently offlineUAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9732 times:

Thanks UH60. So you do a few weeks basic then you find out what frame you will be in and go to that course? Is all the different frame courses there at Dothan?


Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
User currently offlineUAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9722 times:

Oh and whats the highest it can fly? And on non combat mission's what is the normal Alt. you fly at?


Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9603 times:

Quoting UAL727NE (Reply 12):
So you do a few weeks basic then you find out what frame you will be in and go to that course? Is all the different frame courses there at Dothan?

No, it's much longer. It works out to about 10-12 months of flight training, barring any delays. It makes for some very long days. 0400-1700, pt, flying, ground classes, studying at night, etc.

The rotary flight training is conducted north of Dothan at Fort Rucker, at numerous airfields. The basic fixed-wing flight training is conducted at Dothan airport, and there are numerous locations through the US for the aircraft specific training.

Quoting UAL727NE (Reply 13):
Oh and whats the highest it can fly? And on non combat mission's what is the normal Alt. you fly at?

Depends. What aircraft? Where in the US? What is the training objective? Etc. It's a pretty broad question, you need to narrow it down.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9449 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
Better than flying circuits at FL280 in a RC-12.

Kinda like a NASCAR driver... Left turn, Left turn Left turn, Left turn......

I bumped into a RC-12 pilot here in Nashville last fall at my favorite cigar shop. I bought us each a sweet $20 cigar and we both enjoyed them.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineKCMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9236 times:

Speaking for the MEDEVAC (Dust Off!) community. We have a unique mission on the battlefield and a few places stateside. In short we work on call duty days waiting for a 9-Line medical emergancy and then quickly respond flying to the location were given, pick up the patients and fly them to a place where they can recieve more in depth medical care. We dont spend weeks planning routes, alternate routes, go arounds, alternate go arounds, what happens if theres a cat in the LZ.... we stay up on the weather and tactical situation and stand by for the call. We just arrived in the mid-east to perform this mission. (Ill be heading over a few weeks behind them as we just had our first daughter!)...But thats also part of the army. Expect to spend alot of time away from home.


Dustoff
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9227 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 14):
No, it's much longer.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a newbee do you go through Basic Training first...then W/O School.... then Basic Flight School...then Advanced Flight School (airframe specific).....?



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineKCMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9225 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 17):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a newbee do you go through Basic Training first...then W/O School.... then Basic Flight School...then Advanced Flight School (airframe specific).....?

Yes. Commonly referred to as "High school to flight school" or "Street to seat". Some 19 y/o is an army aviator right now.

EDIT: As far as your in depth questions regarding our aircrafts performance, On a public post like this I wouldnt count on getting as much as you seem to want. Reading your other post it sounds like your joining. Once in get with a pilot where you work at and get some answers.

[Edited 2010-03-29 19:17:31]

[Edited 2010-03-29 19:21:47]


Dustoff
User currently offlineJohnM From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9222 times:

Quoting KCMike (Reply 16):
Speaking for the MEDEVAC (Dust Off!) community

When I encounter any Dustoff guys in the bar, be advised your money will be no good.....I've had the pleasure of seeing you guys in action. Easy to pick out in flight: alone, unarmed,with huge balls.


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9196 times:

Quoting KCMike (Reply 16):
We dont spend weeks planning routes, alternate routes, go arounds, alternate go arounds, what happens if theres a cat in the LZ.... we stay up on the weather and tactical situation and stand by for the call.

The whole MEDEVAC system is broken. There is no reason why MED Corps still retains those assets and officers. Having a Med Service major running a company is ridiculous.

Part of the reason why so many med flight companies still fly old A models is because the Army offered them the L model in the early 90s, but they rejected it in favor of their own, in design phase, Q model... which of course turned out to be a real turkey. Then they gutted the company size, and incorporated them into the GSAB. Well the whole point of having a Major (O-4) in charge of the airmedical company was because the company had to be nearly self-sufficient. Hence why it had it's own ground support element... and the platoons could be split and sent off independently. That's why they're MTOE'd O-3s as PLT leaders, the captain could run the plt akin to a flight company. But that's no longer the case. The company falls under the GSAB, and the GSAB provides the support and additional assets.

In the perfect world the Army would strip air ambulance assets from MEDCOM, and put aviation officers in charge. If the GSAB/Division is going to support the company, they ought to have their own aviation officers in command. Not to mention, Med Service officers typically suck balls, and make for horrible aviation unit commanders.

....And as for them not doing any significant planning... yeah....

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 17):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a newbee do you go through Basic Training first...then W/O School.... then Basic Flight School...then Advanced Flight School (airframe specific).....?

Yeah like KCMike noted, it's commonly referred to as "street to seat (S2S)". It's only a small percentage though, and it works out to about 85% are prior service, and 15% are S2S. I was a 67T (now a 15T). I've known quite a few S2S guys, and while some were shit hot, I find many of them to be behind their prior service brethren.

Here's another Army aviation history lesson. Warrant officers use to go through Candidate School (which was much harder and had a much higher attrition rate), then they went to flight school, and the whole time they were still candidates. They would go to classes, fly, have mandatory study periods in the evening, and had to live on post. On the day of their graduation they would earn the rank of WO1, and then immediately pin on their wings.

So they would show up to their unit as a brand new WO1. By regulation the warrant must serve 24 months as a WO1, to be promoted - via time-in-grade - to CW2. So what this did was allow the WO1 to fly for 2 years in his unit, and log heavy. They were EXPECTED to go out there, make mistakes, learn their airframe, and live and breathe aviation. Getting CW2 was a big deal, not only because you were commissioned as an officer, but because now you were viewed as an experienced pilot who did not make mistakes.

...But that all changed. Over a decade ago, they changed it so that the candidate pins WO1 ranks on the day of their graduation from WOCS (6weeks long). And then they go to flight school, which can be anywhere between 12-24months long. So now we have these guys showing up to the unit at the cusp of pinning CW2... and they have a few hundred flight hours!! So we have all these CW2s flying around, with frighteningly low hours, making newbie mistakes. It's not their fault, but it has strongly diminished the respect the rank of CW2 use to hold.

So to bring this full circle, here we have all of these low hour CW2s showing up, and if he is a S2S guy... he has NO experience with Army life. He is no different than a brand new 2LT butter par, or mosquito wings PV2. But he's showing up as a CW2 and he's expected to be on top of his game and proficient in the Army. And it usually doesn't happen.

S2S was a great program because the guy had all flight school as a candidate, and 2 years as a line unit WO1, to get proficient in the Army. But now we're just throwing them into the fire, with only basic and WOCS as their schooling.   


User currently offlineKCMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9180 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 20):
I've known quite a few S2S guys, and while some were shit hot, I find many of them to be behind their prior service brethren.

Ill have to disagree as to the quality of aviators produced by S2S guys and joe with a couple of years in. I was a S2S guy with a couple hundred hours coming into the program. Alot of the S2S guys I went through class with were former helicopter CFI's, Guys who had thousands of hours but the airline situation wasnt working out, and other guys with a wealth of pilot experiance who decided to serve their country. I dont have numbers or stats, but I know none of these guys had any problems throughout flight school. My buddy at my unit was/is a helicopter CFI and breezed through progression, I had no problem progressing either aside from still zeroing in the touch for a helicopter. The army does things differently than the civilian side of aviation. But a 1000 hour commercial pilot going into rucker will progress/catch on alot faster than a guy whos never flown before. Ive noticed that at my unit as well as flight school. That being said, there are S2S guys with no flight experiance, some excelled, some sucked. I think prior flight time/ratings should be mandatory for the program.

Last, the attitude that alot of prior enlisted guys seemed to have was flying was a reward for just getting off the ground, and were hard on the old stereotype that warrants dont do PT, dont show up to work unless theyre flying, grow long hair, etc. Showing a lower level of professionalism than their S2S peers who have had the only example of the army at WOCS and maintained that higher standard, and now the prior's experiance which rubbed off. Most of our commisioned pilots arent former enlisted, that goes for our other branch's of service as well. It works out just fine, we all live and learn. Adapting to the army is the easy part. There are bad apples in every bunch of course, from priests to politicians to pilots. But thats the oppinion ive developed since joining.



Dustoff
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8958 times:

Quoting KCMike (Reply 21):
Ill have to disagree as to the quality of aviators produced by S2S guys and joe with a couple of years in. I was a S2S guy with a couple hundred hours coming into the program. Alot of the S2S guys I went through class with were former helicopter CFI's, Guys who had thousands of hours but the airline situation wasnt working out, and other guys with a wealth of pilot experiance who decided to serve their country.

Sorry, I guess I didn't make my point clear... I wasn't basing those comments on their flying abilities. I was speaking more to their overall development as a soldier. I don't deny that guys with prior flight time have a leg up on those who don't. In fact, I am jealous that some of these guys have so much civilian time. I recently hit 2,000hrs, but we just got a guy (S2S) who assessed for the unit, and he had 1200 civilian time, plus 900military time... and he's 25. So I don't hold that against them. Instead, what I spoke towards was the fact that your average S2S warrant is no different than your average PV2/2LT.

But hey, I certainly wasn't trying to make a swipe at you. I agree, there are shitty prior-service guys, and there are shit hot S2S guys. But in my experience, S2S warrants definitely struggle more to assimilate than prior service warrants. Whereas in the past it was not such a big deal because S2S guys had basic, 1+yrs of candidacy/flight school, and 2yrs as a WO1. But while that is different today, what is not different is that a CW2 showing up to his unit is still expected to hit the ground running.

I guess what I'm arguing is that it's absolutely unacceptable for guys arriving to their first unit as a CW2, and if they're S2S it only means there is that much more that needs to be learned. The warrant corps is not what it use to be.

Quoting KCMike (Reply 21):
warrants dont do PT, dont show up to work unless theyre flying, grow long hair, etc.


haha that all pretty much holds true for me.


User currently offlineUAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8946 times:

Yea I joined, I leave for WTC on 5 May. Going in as 19D. I read up on alot of the Warrant stuff like the WOCS and 32 weeks of flight training. Sorry that i'm not being more specific on my questions. Say you are going to fly a UH60 XC to another base far away. Weather is good 10mi visibility. What ALT. would you most likely fly at? 5, 10000AGL?


Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 8933 times:

Quoting UAL727NE (Reply 23):
Yea I joined, I leave for WTC on 5 May. Going in as 19D.

19D??? I thought you were looking for an MOS in aviation, specifically a pilot slot? What motivated you to pick 19D?

Quoting UAL727NE (Reply 23):
Say you are going to fly a UH60 XC to another base far away. Weather is good 10mi visibility. What ALT. would you most likely fly at? 5, 10000AGL?

Again, it really all depends. Different units have different TACOPS, which will dictate how they will fly. And then different types of airspace have different requirements.

But for a simple answer, a VIP aircraft would file IFR and fly at 8000ft MSL. Most regular army air assault units would fly at 1000-2000ft AGL. 160th would fly about 500-1000ft AGL. And MEDEVAC would fly at 50ft AGL, and hit wires.  


25 UAL727NE : Well the Army said I had to get into the Army first then get accepted to WOCS. They said it's hard to go straight into WOCS from the get go, possible,
26 UH60FtRucker : Well it sounds like you at least considered the options, which is good. But since you're prior service, you're not considered "street to seat" and I
27 UAL727NE : Yes sir!! that's the plane. The commander at the Recuiter Station just got accepted to fly, so when I went in there to talk to my Recuiter he talked t
28 KCMike : Agreed. I was a CW2 before I was RL1. My CO noted after he promoted me, "No one knows how whether you just progressed or are a tracked warrant office
29 Post contains links UH60FtRucker : Yes there are books that help you study for the exam. Try: http://www.amazon.com/Master-Militar...Tests/dp/0768927935/ref=pd_sim_b_4 Or there are fre
30 UAL727NE : Wow I really can't wait to fly these thing's. I used to hate choppers but now they grew on me alot. I always stay at the Pilot truck stop right there
31 UH60FtRucker : I think that Cav unit only has Kiowa Warriors and they're the only regular army helicopters, while the H-60s and H-47s belong to the Washington guard
32 UAL727NE : WOW, i'd like to have a house on 22 acres up there. Yea I did some research on the area up there and the house's and the area look's really nice. Bett
33 KCMike : Aside from the whole heritage of Dust Off. I think the army should paint of the red cross and rename the mission CSAR. Those bastards are going to sh
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