LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22057 posts, RR: 51 Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9772 times:
Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 3): This is terrible news - its going to completely upset the balance of power in the region.
Saudi Arabia and its Gulf neighbors deserve to have equipment that can protect them. The US and entire West has huge national security interest in protecting the region, and cant sit around on our hands with or without Iran in the picture even.
By the way, a sale to Saudis means further sales to Israel, which also means a bit more sales to Egypt also.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14348 posts, RR: 26 Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8981 times:
Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 3): This is terrible news - its going to completely upset the balance of power in the region
Quite the contrary actually. Continuing support to both sides of the conflict gives the US leverage to hopefully contain things if the situation goes south. Having middle eastern militaries receiving large amounts of American aid basically means that no one can win without our permission.
lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 21 Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8822 times:
All the diversionary arguments won't stop this deal; the Saudis have the money to spend and we have the hardware. If we don't sell it to them, there are at least two European nations I could name that would instantly offer them their own home grown alternatives. Does anyone here doubt that? Would Putin impose conditions on a similar sale to Saudi Arabia? Of course not!
I'm hoping they take C-17s as well.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
How would you rather this forum operate?
Announcement of a sale followed by congratulatory messages only?
Second - nobody doubts this deal is now fait accompli - nobody's debating IF it will go through but rather WHY it should or should not have been signed in the first place.
Quoting lumberton (Reply 26): the Saudis have the money to spend and we have the hardware.
So do the Chinese - I'm sure if we offered them license production of the F-22 they'd throw a whole lot of money are way. they have 2.5 TRILLION - thats right TRILLION dollars in CASH. So what?
Quoting lumberton (Reply 26): If we don't sell it to them, there are at least two European nations I could name that would instantly offer them their own home grown alternatives. Does anyone here doubt that?
Have we been reading the same thread? - pls read replies 14 and 18 - nobody doubts that Europe will fill the vacuum - the point is the threat of primary, secondary and tertiary sanction will be enough to strong arm them not to. .... Just as Russia was strong armed into not selling the S-300 to Iran and Israel was strong armed into not selling the Phalcon to China.
Quoting lumberton (Reply 26): Would Putin impose conditions on a similar sale to Saudi Arabia?
So we should start selling to Libya, Iraq, Venezuela, Sudan, Syria, Burma and China too ?
Quote: "July 8/10: Boeing flies its stealth-enhanced F-15SE Silent Eagle, for the first time, demonstrating the weapon bay operation in flight. The next stage will involve firing an AIM-120 air to air missile from the recessed weapon bay, which is part of the plane’s conformal fuel tank.
Boeing executives are also quoted as saying that they expect export approval for the F-15SE, and have received interest for Korea. A Jerusalem Post report adds Israel to this list, citing several conversations between Israeli defense officials and Boeing about F-15SE capabilities, and possible interest in a cheaper Silent Eagle bridge buy that allows full Israeli customization, while the F-35A achieves greater cost certainty and lower production costs."
Quote: "Kuwait has surprised Boeing by asking for information on the F-15 Silent Eagle, making it the first non-operator of classic F-15s to express an interest in the latest version of the fighter.
Paul Oliver, Boeing's vice-president for the Middle East and Africa, confirms that a Middle Eastern country that is looking to 'recapitalise' its air force has expressed an interest. However, he declines to say if the country is Kuwait.
'Right not, this potential customer is asking if it can have information about the F-15. A lot of customers are looking to recapitalise their fighters,' he adds. 'There are a lot of countries looking for alternative platforms to the [Lockheed Martin] F-35 in the Middle East, and this is one of those'."
Quote: "The Wall Street Journal reports that the US will sell 82 F-15Es to Saudi Arabia over objections from Israel. According to the article, standoff weapons were the main issue of concern in Jerusalem. Of course, standoff weapons are only necessary if the aircraft is unable to penetrate defended airspace to release weapons directly over the target. Boeing has designed the F-15SE Silent Eagle precisely for that mission, but the company has been careful to point out that Saudi is not a potential customer for Silent Eagle. The WSJ article about Israel's concerns probably explains why."
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
25 Lumberton: Up to 60 Apache's are being discussed and the deal is up to USD$60 billion, according to this article. Saudi arms deal could involve 60 Apaches from M
26 par13del: I'm confused by this point, Europe has already sold Saudia Arabia Tornados and Eurofighters, the Typhoon is a more modern a/c than the F-15, what str
27 Lumberton: More likely, this is why they want it. http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest
28 par13del: Possibly one scenario, but 20 a/c against thousands of conventional missiles is not a pretty numbers picture.The bulk of those missiles are not true "
29 Lumberton: The Obama Administration has notified Congress of its intent. Now its official. Congress has 30 days to object; no serious road blocks are anticipated
30 AirRyan: Good thing we will know the election results in the first week of November, and besides as we have seen with the health care bill that they passed de
31 bikerthai: Not likely no matter who wins this November because of the following reasons: 1) Jobs, jobs, jobs . . . . 2) Israel passively gave it's blessing ('ca
32 trex8: Arms sales notifications are hardly ever vetoed, they do not need to be passed by congress to occur, just not vetoed to stop them. They usually go th
33 DEVILFISH: Well, we can say the F15-SAs they're getting will come fully-loaded..... http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...4-f_15s%2C-100%2B-helicopters.html Sau
34 lumberton: What is astonishing is the scope of this order. You only highlighted the F-15 related items. The article also details the rotary wing toys.
35 trex8: very strange but on the dsca site http://www.dsca.mil there are 3 separate notifications for the choppers, one for 10 AH64D, one for 24 and one for a
36 lumberton: I believe it is 36 total AH-64, but at this point I'd venture no one knows the real number they'll ultimately sign for. Speaking of helicopters, it s
37 AirRyan: I disagree, that's hardly a vote of approval however since Israeli allies in the US government are presently in the minority, they will have to wait
38 Baroque: Are you writing about the F-15 deal or the F-35 deal? Either or both might acquire a different hue if this leads to anything. http://www.haaretz.com/
39 allegro: So it looks like Pres. Obama bowing to King Abdullah did pay off ... One bow = $60B ... not bad. Congrats to Boeing and all involved. Much needed shot
40 trex8: And the last time it happened like I said was the first attempt to sell F15s almost 30 years ago now As I also pointed out, these deals don't get "pa
41 bikerthai: From: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terro...-billion-arms-sale-to-Saudi-Arabia "The Jerusalem Post reports that Israel is not expected to object to
42 Spacepope: Not bad for US arms companies. Looks like a lot of the ammunition is replacement for what the F-15S fleet burned through earlier this year on the Yeme
43 lumberton: Slightly OT, but if this report is true Spain seems to be selling the core of its armored force to Saudia Arabia. I wonder why they didn't go for Germ
44 ThePointblank: It may be new production Leopards, not existing Leopards because the numbers being bandied about IS the entire Spanish Leopard 2E force, and then som
45 lumberton: Yes its close to their entire force, but perhaps they decided they don't need heavy armor anymore? BTW, would Germany allow Spain to produce these th
46 faro: They also have the money to buy personal A380's, inter-stellar yachts and gold-plated mouse traps. Doesn't mean that people should indulge their ever