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Brazil-Chile MOU For New Cargo Aircraft  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1996 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 12045 times:

According to news agency EFE Brazil and Chile sign a MOU for the development and construction of a new cargo aircraft, with better capacity than the C-130H.

Link in Spanish only.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/epa...ALeqM5isKhsakn1Jf1P0EHgbPEHKUsKr4w


Thoughts ?

Rgds.


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8974 posts, RR: 39
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 12035 times:

This is a military cargo aircraft that has been under development by Embraer, the KC-390. This belongs under the Military Aviation forum, though.


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineCamiloA380 From Sweden, joined Feb 2008, 486 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11900 times:

So Chile will make parts for the KC-390? Is Argentina also involved?


Flying4Ever!
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1996 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 11854 times:

Quoting CamiloA380 (Reply 2):
So Chile will make parts for the KC-390? Is Argentina also involved?

Chile has a small state-run aviation industry called ENAER ( Empresa Nacional de AERonáutica ), which produces some small training aircraft and surely has the capacity ( potential or established ) to produce some parts of the future KC-390. But surely the main construction of the aircraft will be made by EMBraer in Brazil.
They don't mention Argentina, Uruguay or any other Mercosur country in the article, so I guess this will be only between Chile and Brazil. Besides, a Memorandum Of Understanding is never the last word about a project, is just the beginning of the negotiations, and a lot of things can happen in the future, including the addition of more countries in the project.

Rgds.

G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 11827 times:

Chile is also planning to acquire six KC-390s.....


.http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...er's-kc_390-airlifter-program.html

Chile’s Air Force declares its intention to acquire six of the military transport jets


Quote:
"Based on this agreement, Chile’s National Aeronautical Enterprise (Empresa Nacional de Aeronáutica – ENAER) becomes engaged in the discussions about the development of the airplane and in supplying part of its structure. The declaration also marks the beginning of negotiations regarding the future acquisition of six KC-390 aircraft to equip the Chilean Air Force (FACH)."



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 11503 times:

The KC 390 is an interesting alternative for countries that can not afford the A400M and don´t want the C130J.


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11460 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
According to news agency EFE Brazil and Chile sign a MOU for the development and construction of a new cargo aircraft, with better capacity than the C-130H.

Link in Spanish only.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/epa...ALeqM5isKhsakn1Jf1P0EHgbPEHKUsKr4w

Thoughts ?

The 23-24t KC390 with slightly higher/wider cargo deck seems an convinient option.

Then there the 37t A400M and 80t C-17. I guess tactical and financial requirements also play a role..


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11457 times:

Quoting keesje (Reply 6):
The 23-24t KC390 with slightly higher/wider cargo deck seems an convinient option.

Then there the 37t A400M and 80t C-17. I guess tactical and financial requirements also play a role..

Isn't the C/KC-390 cheaper than the C-130J/J-30, A-400. or C-17? It thought the price was near the Japanese C-X, about $70M-$80M USD?


User currently offlineCamiloA380 From Sweden, joined Feb 2008, 486 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11234 times:

Its official..

Chile enters talks on joining Embraer KC-390 programme.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ning-embraer-kc-390-programme.html

Camilo   



Flying4Ever!
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks ago) and read 11200 times:

Quoting CamiloA380 (Reply 8):
Its official..

Chile enters talks on joining Embraer KC-390 programme.

Great news for Chile and Embraer. But the artical mentions nothing about France and its possible order for 12 KC-390s. What happened?


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8974 posts, RR: 39
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11193 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
Great news for Chile and Embraer. But the artical mentions nothing about France and its possible order for 12 KC-390s. What happened?

That hinges on the FAB ordering Rafales, which seems likely, eventually. . . . (maybe after election this year, but I also thought this 8 years ago, and then again 4 years ago. . .)



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineSandroMag From Portugal, joined Nov 2007, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11160 times:

This was a very good week for Embraer and the KC-390 Program. Now is Colombia to join the project and add 12 more to the orderbook.

From Flightglobal

Colombia formalises Embraer KC-390 interest

Colombian officials have signed a declaration of intent with Brazil to take part in the development and production of the Embraer KC-390 military tanker/transport as well as to purchase 12 aircraft.

Along with similar arrangements in Chile, which could purchase six aircraft for the Chilean Air Force, and internal interest in Brazil for 28 aircraft with deliveries starting in 2016, Embraer's potential order count is up to 46 of the twin-jets. The airframer is discussing the program with other potential partners, including Portugal and South Africa, while continuing to evaluate suppliers.

"This is the first step toward bilateral negotiations that will establish the terms and conditions of Colombia's participation in the program," says Embraer in the 1 September announcement. Colombia's contribution to the program could also include a factory there for machined parts, Embraer adds.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10990 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 10):
PPVRA

Thanks for the update on the French order.

Quoting SandroMag (Reply 11):
SandroMag

First Chile, and now Columbia and possibly Portugal? I agree that an order from the SAAF is possible, too. They canceled their order for the A-400 and need something to replace them. I had thought it could be the C-130J or C-17, but the KC-390 makes more sense.


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10976 times:

It's interesting to note that Colombia is contemplating double the FACh's planned buy. Does Colombia actually require this much airlift capability?


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineSandroMag From Portugal, joined Nov 2007, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10806 times:

From a portuguese newspaper today edition

"Participação portuguesa no fabrico do KC-390 assegurada até fim do ano - ministro da Defesa
Lisboa, 10 set (Lusa) - O ministro da Defesa revelou hoje que até final deste ano fica definida a participação portuguesa na construção do avião de transporte militar KC-390, assegurando a participação de empresas portuguesas e a tempo de preparar a substituição futura dos C-130.

"Queremos concluir as negociações até ao fim deste ano" e a participação portuguesa no projeto da empresa brasileira Embraer tem dois objetivos, sendo o primeiro "tratar, com tempo, a substituição dos Hercules C-130, que têm um ciclo de vida que terminará" e assegurar a participação desde o inicio da força área na definição de certos requisitos, disse Augusto Santos Silva.

O segundo prende-se com a participação de empresas portuguesas de engenharia aeronáutica e de sistemas de software e comunicações neste projeto da Embraer, no fabrico da fuselagem e equipamentos de informação e comunicação das aeronaves, e que será estruturada por dois consórcios que integram várias empresas, um de cada área.

Santos Silva falava no final da cerimónia de assinatura, com o homologo brasileiro Nelson Jobim, do penúltimo acordo que a Embraer pretende fazer relativo a este projeto.

Nelson Jobim referiu que vão participar neste projeto, a convite do Brasil, Portugal, a República Checa, a Argentina, o Chile e a Colômbia.

A definição da participação concreta de cada país o mais rápido possível obedece ao objetivo de "ter o protótipo já pronto em 2014 ou 2015 e iniciar a produção em série em 2018", ano em que começa a "paralisação do material dos norte-americanos C-130", explicou o ministro da Defesa brasileiro.

Estima-se que circulem no mundo entre 2000 e 2500 aviões de transporte militar C-130 e a brasileira Embraer quer ocupar esse mercado com o seu KC-390.

Os dois ministros assinaram o protocolo no final da manhã de hoje, após uma reunião de cerca de uma hora e meia em que, além deste tema bilateral, passaram em revista temas multilaterais, como a cooperação no âmbito da Comunidade dos Países de Língua Portuguesa (CPLP).

A agenda da próxima reunião de ministros da Defesa da CPLP, que o Brasil acolhe em novembro, foi um dos temas tratados neste âmbito, adiantou Santos Silva.

ANP."

In brief words the portuguese commitment for the KC-390 program will be decided until the end of the year, interesting to see two new partners interested in participating in this project, Argentina and the Czech Republic.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 10724 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 13):
It's interesting to note that Colombia is contemplating double the FACh's planned buy. Does Colombia actually require this much airlift capability?

I agree, that would be some 56 KC-390s. Currently the FAC has;
C-130B/H = 7
C-212 = 3
C-235 = 3
C-295 = 4
KC-707 = 1
AC-47 = 6

TOTAL = 24

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombian_Air_Force#Aircraft_inventory


User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10593 times:

Czech Republic outlines need for two KC-390s.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...outlines-need-for-two-kc-390s.html

Also want to put their hands on a part of the production cake..

Not withstanding the KC-390 looks like a very useful and probably efficient 20t cargo / tanker / troop transport.

http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_KC-390_Refuels_AMX_Concept_lg.jpg

Recent (Q2) program schedule:
http://media.defenseindustrydaily.co...C-390_Project_Schedule_2010_lg.jpg


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10587 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Thoughts ?

Yes. This is not good news for A400M exports.

Quoting columba (Reply 5):
The KC 390 is an interesting alternative for countries that can not afford the A400M and don´t want the C130J.

See above.



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10565 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 17):
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Thoughts ?

Yes. This is not good news for A400M exports.

The KC390 will be a 20-23t transport
The C130J is an 20t transport
The A400M is a 37t transport
The C-17 is a 80t transport

Embraers take on it:

"It is designed to be superior to the C-130," says Neto. "The Brazilian air force could have purchased the C-130J, but this aircraft will do more for less, so that's the challenge we have ahead of us. It's as simple as that. We have a contract to produce a product that will do that job."

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...fident-of-success-with-kc-390.html


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10531 times:

Quoting keesje (Reply 18):
The KC390 will be a 20-23t transport
The C130J is an 20t transport
The A400M is a 37t transport
The C-17 is a 80t transport

How many air forces need a transport that size on a recurring basis? That's why there's Volga Dnieper. C-130 size aircraft will work fine for the vast majority of the world's air forces, in fact its probably a better fit. I think that the KC-390 will eat into potential export sales of the A400M.

We shall see....



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently onlineThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1855 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 10515 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 19):
How many air forces need a transport that size on a recurring basis? That's why there's Volga Dnieper. C-130 size aircraft will work fine for the vast majority of the world's air forces, in fact its probably a better fit. I think that the KC-390 will eat into potential export sales of the A400M.

We shall see....

The thing is with the C-130, the aircraft becomes volume restricted before it comes weight restricted. Many users are looking to get more capacity from their transports, and since the KC-390 is a volumetrically larger aircraft than the C-130, I would say future export sales of the C-130 are more likely to be in jeopardy than the A400M, which has a different niche to fill.


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 10510 times:

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 20):
and since the KC-390 is a volumetrically larger aircraft than the C-130, I would say future export sales of the C-130 are more likely to be in jeopardy than the A400M, which has a different niche to fill.

No argument on that point. The C-130 has had a great run, but its days are probably numbered.



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8974 posts, RR: 39
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 10503 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 21):
No argument on that point. The C-130 has had a great run, but its days are probably numbered.

Maybe Lockheed could launch a new clean-sheet to compete with Embraer, and maybe even plan from the outset something with civilian applications too.

Suggestions: single pilot ops/UAV capability, BWB, new engines (based on TP400s?). . .

[Edited 2010-09-14 12:52:00]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 10493 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 22):
Maybe Lockheed could launch a new clean-sheet to compete with Embraer, and maybe even plan from the outset something with civilian applications too.

I fully expect that this is what will happen at some point. The potential market within the U.S. armed services alone is huge: USAF, USN, USCG & USMC. I don't expect them, or Boeing, or another US company, to just concede this market.



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 10485 times:

Quoting SandroMag (Reply 14):
In brief words the portuguese commitment for the KC-390 program will be decided until the end of the year,

Portugal seems to be looking at six airframes. A bit galling for EADS.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ortugal-could-buy-six-kc-390s.html

Quote:
"Portugal could acquire six Embraer KC-390 tactical transports following the signature of a declaration of intent by defence minister Augusto Santos Silva and his Brazilian counterpart Nelson Jobim.

[.....]

Portugal's commitment represents a blow to Airbus Military, which assembles the A400M in neighbouring Spain. Lisbon was previously interested in the larger design, but withdrew from the European programme before its formal launch in 2003.

The Portuguese air force already operates 15 of Airbus Military's C-212 light and C-295 medium transports, plus six Lockheed Martin C-130H Hercules, as listed in Flightglobal's MiliCAS database."


Which begs the question..... "What does this do to Kawasaki's C-2 and HAL/Irkut's MRTT"?

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 22):
Maybe Lockheed could launch a new clean-sheet to compete with Embraer, and maybe even plan from the outset something with civilian applications too.

Suggestions: single pilot ops/UAV capability, BWB, new engines (based on TP400s?). . .

LockMart's concept is so way out there, one would think only Skunk Works could dream it up.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ontest-to-build-cargo-x-plane.html



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
25 Post contains links PPVRA : I bet it looks a lot more traditional from below. And actually, I'd say it looks like something the British would design. . . I'm hoping for BWB, tho
26 Post contains links Spacepope : Add the Czechs to the list of customers it seems. Negotiations begin for 2 aircraft. http://www.embraer.com.br/institucio...ad/2_090-Com-VPD-KC_Czech-
27 KC135TopBoom : You forgot the Japanese C-2, which has a 42t transport capability Long duration mission aircraft must have two pilots, but your other suggestions mig
28 Wingscrubber : C-2 cannot be exported due to Japan's military hardware export covenants, it'll never fly with a foreign airforce, this is why KC-390 is going to have
29 Post contains links Spacepope : And now Argentina is in talks for the airlifter: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1318822620100913
30 Post contains links DEVILFISH : With Argentina in negotiations, it's highly likely they will be included. Bringing potential initial orders to 60 - quite remarkable..... http://www.
31 Post contains links and images keesje : The Kc390 transport tanker platform looked potent from the start. Looks like the industrial base is gaining weight quickly. Next step could be a major
32 Post contains images CamiloA380 : According to a blog in Spanish, Argentina ordered 6 KC-390. I think this also means that Argentina will be constructing parts of it, as Embraer and FA
33 Post contains links DEVILFISH : There is nothing to order yet. To clarify..... http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...tical-Air-Transport-Program-05380/ Quote: "Oct 29/10: Embraer an
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