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Skydiving From The Edge Of Space  
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Posted (4 years 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6228 times:

Hopefully this is the correct forum for this thread. I'll move it if people suggest Non-Av.

Anyhoo, link goes to the Guardian article about two people vying to become the first supersonic skydivers, jumping from about 120,000 ft. One, Fournier (French) I knew about as he has been trying for some time to launch from North Battleford, Saskatchewan, unsuccessfully so far due to a host of problems. He's getting up in years, too. The other, Baumgartner (Austrian) I didn't know about. But, he has Red Bull behind him.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...gartner-michel-fournier-supersonic

I wish both gentlemen well, but, as Rummie once said, there are some unknown unknowns here.


Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6204 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter):
wish both gentlemen well, but, as Rummie once said, there are some unknown unknowns here.


Been done before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Excelsior


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6087 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 1):
Been done before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Excelsior

Kittinger is part of the Red Bull team (mentioned in the article).

a) Kittinger didn't get as high as these dudes plan to go;
b) Kittinger didn't go supersonic, which these guys plan on.

What happens at the sonic boundary vis-a-vis shock interaction with the suit is really an unknown unknown.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2108 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6015 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
b) Kittinger didn't go supersonic, which these guys plan on.

Kittinger certainly did go supersonic, a record for which he is famous for (the only human to do it without a vehicle). The speed of sound is not 740mph at that altitude and temperature...

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
a) Kittinger didn't get as high as these dudes plan to go;

And while his 102,000'+ jump may not be quite as high as the planned 120,000' jump... I'm not sure there's anymore challenges or difficulties between those 2 altitudes. I'd wager its about the same.



[Edited 2010-09-06 17:36:36]


Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5885 times:

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 3):
Kittinger certainly did go supersonic, a record for which he is famous for (the only human to do it without a vehicle). The speed of sound is not 740mph at that altitude and temperature...

I realise Mach 1 is not the same at that altitude as at sea level, or even in the tropopause.
FWIW, Wikipedia does not mention him going supersonic, nor any of the citations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Kittinger

Nor does this one, which might be considered semi-official. It does note "approaching the speed of sound" ...

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Dictionary/kittinger/DI29.htm



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5884 times:
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Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 3):
And while his 102,000'+ jump may not be quite as high as the planned 120,000' jump... I'm not sure there's anymore challenges or difficulties between those 2 altitudes. I'd wager its about the same.

If there's no significant difference between 102Kft & 120Kft I suspect someone would have done it a long time ago....

Seems to me the difficulty is not so much the jump (although that remains to be seen) but getting to altitude in the first place. Are scientific/experimental balloons getting to 120Kft? and with what kind of payload weights?



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User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5814 times:

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 5):
Seems to me the difficulty is not so much the jump (although that remains to be seen) but getting to altitude in the first place. Are scientific/experimental balloons getting to 120Kft? and with what kind of payload weights?

Yes they do, and generally are intended to study upper atmospheric winds and to do some relatively persistent studies of the mesosphere and/or ionosphere.

I agree getting the jumper up to altitude is probably the big issue, since a suit problem on the way up would quite possibly be fatal. Well, it would on the way down as well, depending on where it happened:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Piantanida   



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2108 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5802 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
a) Kittinger didn't get as high as these dudes plan to go;
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 4):
I realise Mach 1 is not the same at that altitude as at sea level, or even in the tropopause.
FWIW, Wikipedia does not mention him going supersonic, nor any of the citations:

I had got this from Balloonlife.com, and had heard long, long ago that Kittinger had went supersonic. I dismissed Wiki because though I use it a lot and love it, it's not the Bible.

http://www.balloonlife.com/publications/balloon_life/9510/balloonm.htm

"Kittinger followed this flight with two more. Excelsior II launched on December 11, 1959 and rose to a height of 74,700 before Kittinger left the gondola. His final flight in this series, Excelsior III, took place on August 16, 1960. Kittinger piloted his craft to an altitude of 102,800 feet before exiting the open gondola. On the descent Kittinger became the first man to exceed the Speed of Sound without an aircraft or space vehicle. It is still the highest parachute jump ever. The freefall lasted four minutes and thirty-six seconds, a record."

But alas you were correct, so my apologies. Here is an excellent article that has many quotes about Kit going supersonic, and yet explains why this is not true, and why even though it's not true why it is widely reported as having happened.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...personic&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


Friend, Tim. "Captain's jump put NASA on the map." USA Today. 12 February 1999. "Kittinger fell for four minutes before his main chute opened. In the vacuum of the upper stratosphere, his body accelerated to 714 mph, breaking the sound barrier."

Hamilton, Tom. "Balloonmeister - Joe Kittinger." Balloon Life. October 1995: 41. "On the descent Kittinger became the first man to exceed the Speed of Sound without an aircraft or space vehicle."



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlinerlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1084 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5663 times:

He may have exceeded the speed of sound in ground speed. But I do not see how it would be possible to break the sound barrier without thrust.


I can drive faster than you
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5637 times:

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 8):
He may have exceeded the speed of sound in ground speed. But I do not see how it would be possible to break the sound barrier without thrust.

Gravity, the Big G, provides all the thrust you need in this situation.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5466 times:

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 8):
He may have exceeded the speed of sound in ground speed. But I do not see how it would be possible to break the sound barrier without thrust.

He didn´t need thrust. He had gravity to provide the necessary force.

Jan


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