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Air Force One Cruise And Speed  
User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1061 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 19256 times:

I was watching a documentary about AF1 this afternoon, something pulled my attention when it was mentioned that airforce one can fly higher than a normal 747 and the speed is close to sound speed.
Is that true? if yes , does it mean that the president reach Europe in less than 5 hours from the east coast.
On the other hand, could the 748i fit the presidential need.

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 19261 times:

Its a 747-200 with a -300 wing you do the math or just google the specs on a 747.


I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1846 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 19242 times:

The 747-200/300s are certified to 45,100ft and generally cruise at 570mph. I haven't seen any different maximum altitude numbers for the presidential planes, but they are listed with a 630mph cruise. The engines are rated at 56,000 or so compared to 46,500 for the civilian models.

[Edited 2010-10-30 10:31:49]


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlinedw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1258 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 18719 times:

Typical cruise speed for the VC-25A is Mach .90. Maximum cruise is not disclosed.


CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3472 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 18716 times:
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I suggest caution in posting details that are not commonly known... you never know who is reading them and for what purpose....

User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5491 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 18670 times:

Quoting dw747400 (Reply 3):
Maximum cruise is not disclosed.

My guess is just shy of the wings coming of.... somewhere just over mach...

Quoting kanban (Reply 4):
I suggest caution in posting details that are not commonly known... you never know who is reading them and for what purpose....

Paranoia.

What one could learn here is at worst the same as what is available publicly already. From speed to altitude to defensive capabilities. This is simply a discussion of already known facts that enthusiasts already know. We do not know anything that secret that would be threatening. Those that do know "the secret stuff" already know to not disclose such information.

This paranoia is why we are now getting felt up by TSA and have many other useless security procedures being imposed upon us. Sorry for the rant, I am not berating you but rather the general undercurrent of fear that exists nowadays.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 18572 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 4):
I suggest caution in posting details that are not commonly known... you never know who is reading them and for what purpose....

It's just a plane, and a vintage one at that. This is getting just a little bit too paranoid.

There is no drama in knowing that A6-MMM is a B747-422 (a beautiful plane by the way), so why the bother with knowing fairly generic details about a vintage series B747 classic?

So the B747 Presidential plane has engines just slightly less powerful than a B747-400? Interesting. I can't imagine its usual cruise speed would be greatly different to that of a regular B742/B743 - perhaps they might go closer to the B747 MMO than usual, but otherwise - I'd imagine no huge difference. It is still a B747 after all.

So it won't go doing wild flying, unless they want the scary results like the 747SP-09 that did go supersonic.

[Edited 2010-11-02 21:46:59]

[Edited 2010-11-02 21:48:34]

User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1846 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 18536 times:

Part of the reason for higher thrust engines might have been to make the plane more flyable on two engines out since they were designed to operate in post nuclear attack conditions, which can be slightly less than optimal.


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8505 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 18420 times:

Quoting dw747400 (Reply 3):
Typical cruise speed for the VC-25A is Mach .90. Maximum cruise is not disclosed.

But it's probably exactly the same as the other 747 models. Except I'm sure it cruises faster since the government pays for the gas.

Quoting cpd (Reply 6):
So the B747 Presidential plane has engines just slightly less powerful than a B747-400? Interesting.

It also doesn't have the requirement of hauling a full load of passengers, bags, and cargo LAX-SYD, so it doesn't need them.


User currently offlineua777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 18171 times:

President Bush stated that on 9/11 when they were heading back to DC, the escort they had requested that they slow down as they (the escort) were going to run out of fuel at their current speeds.

I'm sure that thing can haul.



"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2338 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 18139 times:
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Quoting ua777222 (Reply 9):
President Bush stated that on 9/11 when they were heading back to DC, the escort they had requested that they slow down as they (the escort) were going to run out of fuel at their current speeds.

I'm sure that thing can haul.

Several sources pin the F-15's economy cruise at 495kts at altitude. Given that they all seem to say exactly the same thing, it's likely they all copied from a common source, and who knows how accurate that is. But... Assuming that's TAS, at 35kft, that works out to Mach .85. And that's almost certainly a number for a clean airframe. Assuming the F-15s were packing (what good are they as escorts if they're not? And assuming that the escorts were, in fact, F-15s), the parasitic drag from the ordinance would shift best cruise down, probably significantly.

Then factor in just how short range a fighter is, even an F-15 (which has impressively long legs for a fighter), while a 747 with full tanks could fly half way across the country at limiting Mach and still probably arrive above MLW. So it's plausible, but it's more a comment on the capabilities of the F-15, rather than the 747.

You're basically asking Usain Bolt to run a distance race with Duncan Kibet – Bolt’s not going to look so good.


User currently offlinejwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17931 times:

What speed AF1 cruises at depends heavily on which type of aircraft carries the designation at the time.
Were the president to be taking a backseat ride in an F-15D he'd go a lot faster than in a C-130...



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6585 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 17535 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 5):
My guess is just shy of the wings coming of.... somewhere just over mach...

What point would there be in doing that ? Sure, that's the "mighty VC-25", but still, going a little faster won't make it evade a Mach 2.5+ missile. Maybe for an emergency descent ? I'm thinking it's more likely the plane is fitted with some tricks like bigger spoilers and maybe can use reverses in flight, diving to the ground at supersonic speeds doesn't seem too smart, whatever the situation.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5491 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 17496 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
What point would there be in doing that ? Sure, that's the "mighty VC-25", but still, going a little faster won't make it evade a Mach 2.5+ missile. Maybe for an emergency descent ? I'm thinking it's more likely the plane is fitted with some tricks like bigger spoilers and maybe can use reverses in flight, diving to the ground at supersonic speeds doesn't seem too smart, whatever the situation.

No, but I was addressing the question of "max cruise", which for the VC-25's would be whatever is called for in order to meet the needs of the president and/or nation, short of damaging either. I am sure its "normal" cruise is no different than other 747's nor do I doubt that being able to fly at/near mach would do much to defend against a missile. But I am sure the if needed it would "cruise" across the continent or ocean at a max speed that is significantly above what would be considered prudent for any other 747 because the aircraft itself is not what is important.

As long as "the wings don't come off" and it can still land safely (or not, there is supposedly an escape pod for the president), the plane ultimately will be flown to meet the needs of the president and nation.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 17457 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 4):
I suggest caution in posting details that are not commonly known... you never know who is reading them and for what purpose....

There is nothing special about the VC-25. It's a 747.. that's it. No escape pod, no hyper boost drive, no cloaking device.. it's a 747. Now the communication package...that is a different story.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 17416 times:

The cruise speed is dictated by the winds aloft, the distance to the distanation, and the "block" time that Air Force-1 must meet.

BTW, those fighters that escorted President Bush on 9/11 were F-16s with drop tanks and a full weapons load, not F-15s, which have a much longer range.


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