JoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 4990 posts, RR: 29 Posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10834 times:
Will 10 airlifters be enough for India considering their size and the size of their military or will they continue to shop around? Does this leave any room for other types like the A400, C-390 and/or Herc?
Quote: (RTTNews) - A Democratic Congressman from Connecticut's First District has hailed the United States' agreement with India to sell ten Boeing C-17 Globemaster III military aircraft that, he said, would create large number of jobs in his state.
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6222 posts, RR: 3 Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10814 times:
Quoting JoeCanuck (Thread starter): Will 10 airlifters be enough for India considering their size and the size of their military or will they continue to shop around? Does this leave any room for other types like the A400, C-390 and/or Herc?
Well, considering the first Indian C-130J just flew...
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11705 posts, RR: 52 Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10808 times:
Quoting JoeCanuck (Thread starter): Will 10 airlifters be enough for India considering their size and the size of their military or will they continue to shop around? Does this leave any room for other types like the A400, C-390 and/or Herc?
The IAF has 6 C-130Js on order, with 6 more on options. Deliveries should begin in 2011.
The IAF fleet of 24 Il-76s will be replaced by the 10 C-17s and 6-12 C-130Js
The 6 Il-78MKI tankers will be around until a new decision is made on their replacement, after they cancelled the 6 A-330MRTT deal.
The IAF has a current fleet of about 105 An-32Bs, which are being upgraded to the An-32B-100/-120 version, so they will be around for a while.
HKA098 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 556 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10782 times:
DEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4423 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10750 times:
Quoting JoeCanuck (Thread starter): Will 10 airlifters be enough for India considering their size and the size of their military or will they continue to shop around?
Quote: "Nov 9/10: India Defence cites Indian media reports quoting IAF chief Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik:
'After we have evaluated the performance of the 10 C-17s, we will take a decision on whether to order another six.'
Boeing emphasizes that it has not yet sealed the order (for 10 C-17s) with a legal contract."
EUM agreement remains the sticking point.....
Quote: "Oct 14/10: Ongoing EUM disagreements have now come into play regarding India’s negotiations to buy up to 10 American C-17 aircraft:
Senior defence ministry sources told Business Standard that Defence Minister A K Antony, during his visit to Washington last month, bluntly told US Defence Secretary Robert Gates that India would not sign the…. (CISMOA) and basic exchange and cooperation agreement for geo-spatial cooperation (BECA). In addition, Antony also conveyed India's unwillingness to sign a logistics support agreement…. 'The US is keen to operate with us,' explained a senior IAF air marshall. 'We see no benefits in being interoperable with them. So, why should we be hustled into signing these agreements?'
Quoting N328KF (Reply 1): Well, considering the first Indian C-130J just flew...
Listed below are excluded features due to non-signature of the EUM agreement.....
Quote: "Oct 6/10: Indian defense journalist Shiv Aroor lists the technologies that he says will not be in India's C-130J-30 special forces aircraft, as a result of India's refusal to sign the USA's CISMOA End-User Monitoring agreement: AN/ARC-222 SINCGARS radios, KV-119 IFF Digital Transponder (Mode 4 Crypto Applique), TACTERM / ANDVT Secure Voice (HF) Terminal, VINSON KY-58 Secure Voice (UHF/VHF) Module, and no SINCGARS/crypto features in the embedded AN/ARC-210v SATCOM Transceiver."
The EUM also affects the P-8I.....
Quote: "Oct 4/10: India’s navy wants to grow its P-8i Poseidon fleet to 12 planes, by exercising a $1 billion option for 4 more, but arms export agreements remain on the to do list. The Times of India:
P-8Is are being customised to Indian naval requirements, with communication, electronic warfare and other systems being sourced from India. For instance, defence PSU Bharat Electronics is delivering Data Link-II, a communication system to enable rapid exchange of information among Indian warships, submarines aircraft and shore establishments, for the P-8Is to Boeing. There is, however, the question of India having not yet inked the Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA) being pushed by the US as ‘’a sensitive technology-enabler’’ for P-8I and other arms procurements."
bikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1588 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10746 times:
Quoting HKA098 (Reply 3): I guess Obama's trip was somewhat successful.
The stuff mentioned were already in the works . . .
Now, if India decides on any of the following:
the F-18s for the fighter program
some P-8I "light"
a Boeing tanker
or some 737 AEW&C
Then I will definitely vote for him the next time around
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11705 posts, RR: 52 Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10689 times:
Quoting bikerthai (Reply 5): Now, if India decides on any of the following:
the F-18s for the fighter program
some P-8I "light"
a Boeing tanker
or some 737 AEW&C
Then I will definitely vote for him the next time around
As much as I would like to see Boeing get these contracts, in addition to the C-17 contract, and the LM contract for more C-130J-30s, that would not make me even consider voting for BHO in 2012.
Confuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3633 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10682 times:
Shmertspionem From India, joined Aug 2006, 451 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10448 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2): The IAF fleet of 24 Il-76s will be replaced by the 10 C-17s and 6-12 C-130Js
Actually there's already talk of 10 more C-17 so the order will be 10+10 (firm plus options) so 24 Il-76's will be replaced by 20 C-17's ............. The C-130 are interim till the HAL-Ilyushin MTA comes into service
Quoting Confuscius (Reply 9): Yes, because India still won't have an airplane the size between the C-130 and the C-17
Don't need a mid-size plane - have always made do with a high low combo (IL-76 and An 32) now it will be a super-high (72 tonnes) and high-medium (17 tonnes) combo.
The MTA represents a significant increase on the An-32 (17 tonnes vs 7.5 tonnes) - this makes any further mid-size niche redundant - at least as far as Indian requirements go which are roughly.
1) Ability to sustain a large invading force (vs pakistan) (along the desert and the gangetic plains)
2) Ability to transport troops and equipment rapidly from theatre to theatre (from pakistan to china border - also desert -gangetic plains)
3) Suppy isolated troop deployments (along the entire Himalayas periphery starting from the karakorums in the west to the Arakan yoma in the east..... and since this ground is totally unsuited to tank warfare the deployments only require tactical level (sidents BHO or GWB simply grandstand to claim credit for the efforts of others.
fridgmus From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1383 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10441 times:
Quoting Confuscius (Reply 9):
Yes, because India still won't have an airplane the size between the C-130 and the C-17!
And neither will anyone else in the foreseeable future!!!
The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22023 posts, RR: 51 Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7032 times:
Indian cabinet approved the 10-aircraft order today.
kanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2459 posts, RR: 21 Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6430 times:
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 13): Did it help in anyway, that Air India recieved a very good compensation for the 787 delays
that turns out to be unresolved as Air India has now requested a delivery delay for lack of funds...
mffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 908 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6087 times:
"The Boeing Co., Huntington Beach, Calif., is being awarded a not-to-exceed $469,000,000 firm-fixed-price, cost-plus-fixed-fee contract modification for a foreign military sales requirement for the Indian Air Force (IAF) C-17 Globemaster III Sustainment Partnership Program.
This action incorporates support of the IAF aircraft into the “virtual fleet” which includes aircraft maintenance, upgrades, and sustainment. '
Quote: "SEATTLE, Sept. 28, 2011 -- Boeing's [NYSE: BA] first P-8I aircraft for the Indian Navy completed its initial flight today, taking off from Renton Field at 12:02 p.m. Pacific time and landing two hours and 31 minutes later at Boeing Field in Seattle.
[.....]
'Flying the first P-8 for an international customer is a key milestone for our entire team,' said Leland Wight, Boeing P-8I program manager. 'We have transitioned to P-8I production, and remain on track to deliver the first aircraft to the Indian Navy in 2013.'
The P-8I is the first of eight long-range maritime reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft Boeing is building for India as part of a contract awarded in January 2009. An option for four additional P-8I aircraft was included in the original contract.
The aircraft features open system architecture, advanced sensor and display technologies, and a worldwide base of suppliers, parts and support equipment."
mffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 908 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3593 times:
Quoting Devilfish (Reply 17): The aircraft features open system architecture, advanced sensor and display technologies,
That A/C must have amazing sensor's to find a Sub in that terrain!
Devilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4423 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3576 times:
Quoting mffoda (Reply 18): That A/C must have amazing sensor's to find a Sub in that terrain!
That could be the reason India was so insistent on installing indigenous systems in their platforms.....their sensors must be much more sensitive! .....
Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 4): P-8Is are being customised to Indian naval requirements, with communication, electronic warfare and other systems being sourced from India.
tugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 4629 posts, RR: 7 Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3562 times:
Quoting Devilfish (Reply 19): That could be the reason India was so insistent on installing indigenous systems in their platforms.....their sensors must be much more sensitive! .....
Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 4):
P-8Is are being customized to Indian naval requirements, with communication, electronic warfare and other systems being sourced from India.
Actually one of the biggest reasons is that USA won't allow our best electronics and systems to be sold overseas to many (if any) countries. ITAR restrictions and all that.
(And if you were a foreign country, would you really trust that the USA didn't install an "off switch" somewhere hidden inside that it could use, "just in case"? )
Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
Devilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4423 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3549 times:
Quoting tugger (Reply 20): Actually one of the biggest reasons is that USA won't allow our best electronics and systems to be sold overseas to many (if any) countries. ITAR restrictions and all that.
Well aware of that...(please see the last part of my quoted excerpt in Reply 4). We were just having a little friendly tit-for-tat.
mffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 908 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3296 times:
This is the first I've heard, that India originally planned on acquiring 20 C-17's...
"IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal Norman Anil Kumar Browne, told India Strategic defence magazine (www.indiastrategic.in) in an interview that Boeing would deliver all the already ordered 10 aircraft between 2013 and 2014, and that once the IAF was satisfied with their performance, six more would be ordered. By 2015, the induction of all the 16 aircraft should be complete.
"C-17 Globemaster III aircraft are expected to be inducted between 2013 and 2015," he said.
The Air Chief said that the IAF had actually planned to acquire 20 aircraft but right now, it had the Defence Ministry's approval for just 16."
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