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U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya  
User currently onlinePlayLoud From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 57 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13343 times:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa...vil.war/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

Quoting United Nations CNN:

U.N. Security Council approves no-fly zone in Libya

United Nations (CNN) -- Joyous Libyan rebels in Benghazi erupted with fireworks and gunfire after the U.N. Security Council voted Thursday evening to impose a no-fly zone and "all necessary measures" to protect civilians.

The opposition, with devoted but largely untrained and underequipped units, has suffered military setbacks this week. It has said such international action was necessary for it to have any chance of thwarting Moammar Gadhafi's imminent assault on the rebel stronghold.

"We're hoping and praying that the United Nations will come up with a very firm and very fast resolution and they will enforce it immediately," said Ahmed El-Gallal, a senior opposition coordinator, before the vote.

"We should not arrive too late," French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe said at the U.N.

The resolution was approved with 10 votes, including those of the United States and the United Kingdom.

There were no opposing votes on the 15-member council, but China, Russia, Germany, India and Brazil abstained. Germany said it was concerned about a protracted military conflict.

U.N. member states can "take all necessary measures ... to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force," according to the resolution.

I think this virtually assures we are going in. What forces do we have in place carry out such an action?





[Edited 2011-03-17 17:50:17]

139 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3573 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13274 times:

I think its about time the French put up or shut up.

User currently offlinetommytoyz From Tonga, joined Jan 2007, 1353 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13240 times:

For the US, I think it would be carrier based. But England and France are chomping at the bit to go in and they could fly from their home bases for the initial strikes. At least they are close by. A full no fly zone would be tough and costly. That would require 24/7 patrols on station.

Though a few well aimed cruise missiles might be smart.

[Edited 2011-03-17 19:34:35]

User currently offlineThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1680 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 13213 times:

Canada is expected to chop 6 CF-18's for the no-fly zone:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...1/03/17/libya-red-cross031711.html


User currently offlineprebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6388 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 13194 times:

This is three weeks late. It's nonsense.

Quote from CNN:
Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz told a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on Thursday that establishing a zone would take "upwards of a week."

U.S. military officials have said that a no-fly zone would not halt the heavy artillery the regime is using on the ground.

end of quote

Gaddafi must be laughing right now.

In two weeks time the Libyan AA capability may have been mostly knocked down - at the cost of a dozen fighter planes and a double digit bailed out fighter pilots held hostage by Gaddafi.

And in a few years time "we" manage to buy the hostages to freedom by supplying Gaddafi a few squadrons of new, modern fighter planes and AA systems. And in the meantime Gaddafi feels free to re-initiate his terror acts, while French and Italian politicians travel in and out of Tripoli to kiss his feet.

Maybe some time in 22nd century the world will finally learn that African civil wars are not "controlled" by electronic superiority in the sky.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 13186 times:

I suppose we don't yet know what they mean by "all necessary measures?"

User currently onlinePlayLoud From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 13184 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 5):
I suppose we don't yet know what they mean by "all necessary measures?"

I assume that means taking out the artillery as well.


User currently onlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3392 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 13151 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 5):



I suppose we don't yet know what they mean by "all necessary measures?"

The news report I heard said that they expected attacks on the army as just preventing aircraft movement is useless by this time.

and really what gives us the right to do this? Can we bomb the crap out of France next week(month/year) when some protesters burn cars and get attacked by the police? The use of force shoudn't merely be a popularity contest. This isnt Jr High, this is real life.


User currently offlinewvsuperhornet From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 13137 times:

My guess is the US Superhornet will carry the blunt of the work for the US and maybe some stealth bombers or B-1's at first to take out the radar stations.

User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3573 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 13130 times:

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 4):
This is three weeks late. It's nonsense.

Yes, it is.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 7):
and really what gives us the right to do this? Can we bomb the crap out of France next week(month/year) when some protesters burn cars and get attacked by the police? The use of force shoudn't merely be a popularity contest.

The irony of the French wanting in there so badly, and it was they who would not give overflight rights when Reagan wanted to send Khadaffi a message 20 some years ago for killing US citizens.


User currently offlineShmertspionem From India, joined Aug 2006, 453 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 13109 times:

Quoting PlayLoud (Thread starter):
"all necessary measures"
Quoting Newark727 (Reply 5):
"all necessary measures?"

the resolution specifies "all necessary measures SHORT OF OCCUPATION" i.e no ground forces. It is germane here to remember that Saddam Hussein still managed to crush both the Shia south and Kurdish north in 1991-92 in-spite of the No fly zone - albeit with heavy losses.

Also IMO this ruling out a ground threat is foolish. Milosevic and the Serbian army basically dug in and did nothing and yielded nothing till infrastructure targets in Serbia proper were bombed.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 7):
and really what gives us the right to do this?

The last two decades worth of legal and UN precedents (IMO foolish and dangerous) give us the right to do this. Basically a clique in Europe or NA decide who stays and who goes and bomb. That's how its been throughout history.

More importantly we don't know WHO the opposition are. Usually in these countries its the Muslim brotherhood ... so what replaces qaddafi may be worse than qaddafi.

Quoting PlayLoud (Reply 6):
I assume that means taking out the artillery as well.

i am curious to know how this will be done. In normal conflict you have a JSTARS or visual sighting to confirm if a tank is a friendly M1A2 or an enemy t-72 or if a gun is a friendly M777 or and unfriendly D30. In Libya both govt and oppn are using the same equipment.............. so me reckons CAS against govt targets will also result in massive oppn losses. Moreover if the govt forces successfully pull off an outflanking manoeuvre and behind oppn forces - you set the stage for total indiscriminate slaughter.

Lastly the resolution specifies "PROTECT CIVILIANS" a gun battle in the desert or a tank battle will not be eligible for western air support... technically therefore - re-supply convoys cannot be bombed since their payload may be to aid civilians ( I wouldn't put it past qaddafi to hide shells and bombs in sacks of wheat or rice)

Lastly this resolution seems very badly thought out because it basically encourages the opposition - when faced with defeat to retreat into civilian areas and invite qaddafi's wrath on those areas - much like hamas did in Gaza. This resolution implicitly encourages these oppn guys to use civilians as human shields.

Shoddy - ill thought out - foolish resolution ............... only a brain dead peacock like sarkozy could have come with this ... especially after his, alliot-marie's and boillot's bungling - after all he only cares about the press - who in turn confuse "activity with achievement"




Update;
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video....libya.nofly.resolution.cnn?hpt=T1

CNN's Nic Robertson says Gadhafi's deputy foreign minister "strangely" welcomed U.N. approval of a no-fly zone in Libya.

WHAT DOES THIS TELL YOU????????????????????

[Edited 2011-03-17 22:38:27]


Vi veri universum vivus vici
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13169 posts, RR: 78
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 13104 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 9):
The irony of the French wanting in there so badly, and it was they who would not give overflight rights when Reagan wanted to send Khadaffi a message 20 some years ago for killing US citizens.

France had been fighting Libya in Chad on and off during that decade, Gaddafi clearly was messing about in that former French colony for the uranium mined there.
By 1987, after a substantial reverse, he bugged out.
Maybe they felt that was a better course of action than lashing out and as we found, killing Gaddafi's 2 year old daughter.
And did that raid halt his support for terrorism? PA103?
Him further ramping up support for the IRA since British bases were used for the F-111 raid.

http://www.suite101.com/content/france--libya-in-chad-198087-a3728

Reports here indicate that UK and French forces will - with some Arab support? - be the main provider of the aircraft.

[Edited 2011-03-17 22:41:06]

As for the Libyan diplomat being 'pleased', they are hardly known for making rational statements are they? All that stuff about the rebels being variously on LSD and supported by Bin Laden!


[Edited 2011-03-17 22:43:35]

User currently offlinetommytoyz From Tonga, joined Jan 2007, 1353 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 12955 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 9):
The irony of the French wanting in there so badly, and it was they who would not give overflight rights when Reagan wanted to send Khadaffi a message 20 some years ago for killing US citizens.

France, Spain and Italy denied the retribution overflight rights. In the end, they didn't get him. Instead, a bunch of people who had nothing to do with killing Americans died in his place. Though it did seem to quiet him down afterward and made him pause. I think it made him see a ray of sanity, that he was not invincible - that even his female bodyguards couldn't stop the F-111s for some odd reason. In the end, that raid probably saved lives due to that effect on him.

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 4):
This is three weeks late. It's nonsense.

Quote from CNN:
Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz told a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on Thursday that establishing a zone would take "upwards of a week."

It may take the US forces weeks, but not the Europeans.

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 10):
WHAT DOES THIS TELL YOU????????????????????

It tells any sane person that Gaddafi is insane. Like his threats, that if anybody goes crazy on him, he'll go crazy on them with terrorist acts for decades to come - he's insane and knows no boundaries. He'll kill anyone in his way.


User currently offlinesebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 12919 times:

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 4):
And in the meantime Gaddafi feels free to re-initiate his terror acts, while French and Italian politicians travel in and out of Tripoli to kiss his feet.

French politicians are not all like Sarkozy, fortunately.


User currently offlinesebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12911 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 9):
The irony of the French wanting in there so badly, and it was they who would not give overflight rights when Reagan wanted to send Khadaffi a message 20 some years ago for killing US citizens.

I don't see any irony.

Don't you see any difference between an operation of revenge which will kill civilians and an operation of protection which will try to save civilians ?


User currently offlinesebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12899 times:

Actually, I'm glad Kadhafi didn't buy any rafales.

On the other hand, if the rafale is so good, it's the right time to show it. Unfortunately, I think - like other people here - that it's much too late. Now the Lybian soldiers are close to the cities and it will be very hard to protect civilians.


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7067 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12874 times:

Not sure how much traction this is going to get and whether it is good for the world or not.

1. The Europeans are chomping at the bit politically to bomb a country, go figure, I want to see it happen.
2. Who is going to pay for the operation. The Europeans are cutting budgets left and right, there are strikes and discord, they are encouraging the Americans to get their economic house in order also, since China does not agree don't expect them to use western funds to fund any Chinese participation, Japan is devasted and need aid, so who is going to pay, the Oil rich neighbours?
3. If the oil producing countries foot the bill who is going to re-imburse them, the rest of the world when they push the price of oil to $200.00+ a barrel, maintain it there for a year or two.

The only folks who will be happy about such an outcome are the green folks who will say the planet has been saved, but since local countries can have devasted economies with the resultant job losses and social unrest.

Guess we are entering the new era of globalization.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 12807 times:

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 4):
In two weeks time the Libyan AA capability may have been mostly knocked down - at the cost of a dozen fighter planes and a double digit bailed out fighter pilots held hostage by Gaddafi.

Dont be daft - it will be a cakewalk. That's why we have stealth and cruise missiles. Knock down the C&C, the comms and then the radars and its all over. Stay safe from the AAA by sitting at 20,000 feet and JDAM-ing or Stormshadow-ing anything tank or tube shaped that moves and its over very quickly. Whatever fighters the Libyans have will be taken out on the ground by cruise missiles or completely overrun by the Rafales, Typhoons or Eagles etc that the coalition has out looking for them.

Quoting sebolino (Reply 15):
Actually, I'm glad Kadhafi didn't buy any rafales.

Me too but without AWACs and jamming support they wouldnt get close enough to the Super Hornets to show them up in a dogfight. They wouldnt send enough of them - and even if they did, the USN would have more Bugs than they have Rafales.

Anyway - Gaddafi's advisors are busy telling him these things and he'll back down.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently onlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2070 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 12677 times:

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 4):
This is three weeks late. It's nonsense.

Actually, I was surprised that the UN acted this fast!!

The no fly zone was not meant to stop Qaddafi. It was meant to keep Egypt from being engulf by refugees if Benghazi falls.

I always thought that the best way the rebel can fight Qaddafi's army is to use hit-and-run tactic to cut his supply line from Tripoli to Benghazi. Using guerrilla tactic in the desert is somewhat problematic if you have airplanes and helicopters stalking you all the time. At least now the rebel can (if they have the capability) try to cut the supply of fuel to the tanks and the shells to the artillery pieces if they can meet the heavy armor head on.

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 10):
It is germane here to remember that Saddam Hussein still managed to crush both the Shia south and Kurdish north in 1991-92 in-spite of the No fly zone - albeit with heavy losses.

The Kurds were not completely crushed and the Shia did not get defections from the regular army. But your point is taken.

bikerthai



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineKingairTA From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 458 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12665 times:

The US has an airfield in pefrect position to enforce a No-Fly Zone over Libya. It's NAS Sigonella on Sicily. No need to send a carrier.

User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7067 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 12582 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 17):
That's why we have stealth and cruise missiles.

Who exactly has stealth and cruise missiles, the European's have taken the lead on this one, you expecting them to use their stealth a/c and their cruise missiles? If the Europeans do not use stealth and cruise missile the dynamics of the cake walk changes no?

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 17):
Stay safe from the AAA by sitting at 20,000 feet and JDAM-ing or Stormshadow-ing anything tank or tube shaped that moves and its over very quickly

If European forces take the lead how many JDAMS and Stormshadow's are presently deployed, enough to do tank plinking, are their combat a/c already military certified to deliver those weapons? One of the reasons why Hellfire and dumb bombs are used for such ventures are becasue they are "plentiful" in inventory and not as expensive.


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3573 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 12510 times:

Quoting sebolino (Reply 14):
Don't you see any difference between an operation of revenge which will kill civilians and an operation of protection which will try to save civilians ?

How many innocent lives might have been saved if Reagan had been successful? Instead, those birds flew an extra 1,300 miles with multiple refuelings and Khadaffi escaped by minutes.


User currently onlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2070 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 12465 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 20):

If European forces take the lead how many JDAMS and Stormshadow's are presently deployed, enough to do tank plinking, are their combat a/c already military certified to deliver those weapons? One of the reasons why Hellfire and dumb bombs are used for such ventures are becasue they are "plentiful" in inventory and not as expensive.

The Italian Air force purchased a bunch of Small Diameter Bomb I. These would be perfect for "tank plinking". Are they in service yet?

bikerthai



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 12434 times:

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 22):
These would be perfect for "tank plinking".

Since when is "tank plinking" part of a No-fly Zone enforcement? It sounds like several of you have decided that the western air forces are now going to engage in a full-on air campaign against the Libyan military. My question is, from my American perspective; How does the current situation in Libya constitute a direct threat to the national security interests of the United States?



WhaleJets Rule!
User currently onlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 12404 times:

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 23):
Since when is "tank plinking" part of a No-fly Zone enforcement? It sounds like several of you have decided that the western air forces are now going to engage in a full-on air campaign against the Libyan military.

The UN resolution last night authorized any force needed to protect civilians (short of occupation), not just a no-fly zone. If those tanks are being used to assault a city, then that are legitimate targets. Same goes for artillery, naval forces, etc.



The last of the famous international playboys
25 DEVILFISH : Perhaps that's why Sarko is so intent to get into the thick of it?
26 GDB : The deploying RAF aircraft seem to answer that. Might also be worth reflecting that plenty of European NATO aircraft - and men - having been operatin
27 bikerthai : I don't think the UN resolution has the security interest of the US in mind. On the face of it, the concern is the massive refugee crisis that will b
28 11Bravo : Thank you, I'm well aware of what the UN resolution says. What if those tanks or other forces are being used to conduct operations against the insurg
29 GDB : It seems the UN resolution does not consider the anti Gaddafi forces 'insurgents'. If anything, it considers Gaddafi's regime an insurgent one - cert
30 Post contains links Spacepope : In the meantime, Air Libya lost 2 Yak-40s yesterday to an air raid. http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-65860-4.html
31 Bureaucromancer : And yet all the countries involved have signed treaties saying that this is the only legitimate process for use of force. You may well have problems
32 XT6Wagon : What civllians? Which civillians? This is the problem with situations like this. We are protecting one side regardless of the real situation. The reb
33 Post contains images Bongodog1964 : I'm sure there are many others who echo your sentiment, especially the pilots of the UK and France who will be in the US firing line if you join in,
34 par13del : Yes and other than the Brits, their rules of engagement have been "questioned", as one member of this site serving in the region has described. To be
35 GDB : Possibly, however it would have been just a NFZ, IF the resolution was even passed. A pure NFZ would not likely have made enough difference on the gr
36 prebennorholm : I'm afraid that you have watched too many Star War movies... Or listened to too many hype weapons salesmen... Or maybe even been trained in the RAF t
37 GDB : Suez? Uncle Sam pulled the plug there! (Rightly, it was a crazy idea). Yugoslavia, the UN mandate for action was too limiting. The last Western force
38 highlander0 : There seems to be a bit of isolationism apparent in this thread. You're right- unless US oil companies get deals for Libyan Oil/Gas, then this has lit
39 Mortyman : The Norwegian government has confirmed that 6 F16's and 1 P3c / P3N is preparing for mission in Libya. Other material is considered too. Norwegians ha
40 Post contains links Spacepope : In this slideshow, the last photo shows EA-18Gs on standby at Aviano. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12794623 Reportedly there are Mirage/Raf
41 highlander0 : Shit- I wasn't aware that the Growler (always reminds me of the Scottish slang for a 'lady garden') had passed IOC, has it?
42 par13del : Last I checked, the US was not the largest user of oil from the Middle East, even Iraq selected non-US companies as their main co-partners, so yes oi
43 Post contains links Shmertspionem : French fighters have started buzzing over Libya 1) Mirage and Rafales deployed 2) Flying for the time being ONLY over rebel controlled areas http://ww
44 LMP737 : I asked this rhetorical question over on non-av. What happens if the mad colonel decides to keep his air force on the ground but press ahead with the
45 par13del : Any chance they shot down the rebel MIG in error? BBC has a video up not very good resolution, but I did not see any tracer fire going up but did see
46 GDB : Some observers suggest the no 'boots on the ground' will exclude SAS/SBS in the forward air controller role. Since the UK government does not officia
47 Post contains images LMP737 : If pro-Colonel Nut Job forces start getting blown up on a regular basis that will answer the question about whether or not there are boots on the gro
48 Bureaucromancer : Personally I don't interpret the resolution as saying no boots on the ground at all. It says no occupation, which realistically means that foreign for
49 Beta : Is this the 1st time the EF-Typhoon has been used in combat mission over hostile territory with strong likelihood of air-to-air engagement? It's also
50 francoflier : Yes, but none of those governments have openly threatened Western countries with state terrorism, not to mention that Ghaddafi's past foray into terr
51 Post contains images Confuscius : When Gaddafi took over Libya he was a Lt. Colonel. 40+ years later he's only been promoted once to a full-bird Colonel? Hmmm... I guess that's better
52 highlander0 : Italy is playing it cautious as Libya used to be a colony. Indeed, they had to pay reparations a few years ago over that very matter. OR NOT as the BB
53 Post contains links Mortyman : This is an operation pushed for by the Arab nations. It is led and started by the French and now has the USA and several other European countries bac
54 highlander0 : Indeed when the BBC stated from their live stream: it surprised me that rebels would have the capability/skills/training to do so. Perhaps they were
55 par13del : Makes you wonder then who was flying the rebel MIG that was shot down. Until proven otherwise, these are Libyan's looking at what is happening in the
56 11Bravo : I think you are arriving at conclusions not supported by any evidence. The Al Jazeera quote does not say that the rebels were doing anything besides
57 Spacepope : Libya is reported to have 400+ Scuds. Wonder how long till they are on their way to Sicily.
58 highlander0 : It was intentional, I very much doubt that any foreign force would allow themselves to be caught in that position. Merely playing the Devil's Advocat
59 MarSciGuy : Couldn't the CIWS and SM-(2?) systems be used to take care of at least some of those missiles, if the ships are off of Libya and not farther away in
60 rfields5421 : Not ballistic missiles - they are way too high in their flight profile.
61 BuyantUkhaa : Lybia has the Scud B, which has a range of 300km, Sicily is 450km or more...
62 Aesma : If you replace France by Iraq, somehow it works, interesting, isn't it ? Wait ! There was no UN resolution, in that case. Well, we have journalists t
63 MarSciGuy : Aren't the standard missile series meant to deal with that type of threat?
64 XT6Wagon : Doing the same wrong thing multiple times doesn't make it right.
65 Post contains links and images UH60FtRucker : USS Florida has fired tomahawk missiles. This officially marks the first time that an Ohio class submarine has fired in anger, and the world as we kno
66 Post contains links AirRyan : Check out image #3 from the BBC link below, looks like USN EA-18G Growlers at Aviano, I didn't think they were activated and in the fleet just yet? ht
67 Spacepope : Posted that way back in reply 40. Evidently, some things are on time in US military procurement.
68 YVRLTN : What Obama said: "We cannot stand idly by when a tyrant tells his people there will be no mercy" Seems Mugabe is still in power unmolested the last I
69 rfields5421 : The Standard Missile, like the Patriot, was designed and speced to shoot down incoming aircraft. While it has a range of 90 to 200 nm based on the ve
70 Post contains images Shmertspionem : doesnt look like it - def shot down by rebels - they claimed so and no one has contradicted Since Qaddafi's forces are now near the outskirts of Beng
71 Post contains images checksixx : FYI...Sep. 30 2009 -- EA-18G reaches IOC with VAQ-132 at NAS Whidbey Island WA. I wasn't aware they were using any Typhoon's at all... As far as YOU k
72 Redcoat78 : I spoken with a friend of mine a Tornado Pilot from 50° Stormo based at Piacenza AFB. They have been deployed to Trapani Birgi (Sicily) for possible
73 tommytoyz : Back 25 years ago is back then. The now is now. I usually am on the side of pacifists, who say why do we need violence. But it is clear that sometime
74 GDB : Your assuming that they will do that. More likely that his armour and other assets outside will be targeted, Libya has some major population centers
75 Post contains links Mortyman : Wikipedia is moving fast... Libyan no-fly zone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_no-fly_zone International reactions to the 2011 Libyan uprising: h
76 Post contains images RaginMav : It's about time we get some ROI on those tax dollars I've always thought the SSGN's were a particularly sneaky ace up our sleeve. Someone like Gadhaf
77 Spacepope : Saw on the news an AN-74 being used as a level bomber a few days back. Was Libya's transport fleet targeted in this first round of airstrikes? They sh
78 Post contains images Beta : I read somewhere (might be the BBC) and saw a squadron of EF-Typhoon was being prepped for the Libyan missions. May not be used in the initial strike
79 Post contains images Spacepope : News sites have photos of a U2 launching from Cyprus. Looks like the RQ-170 has its hands full further east. [Edited 2011-03-20 11:09:31]
80 GDB : Deploying to Italy today. As are the Tornado's, yesterday's initial strikes by them from the UK using StormShadow missiles was part of the take-down
81 wingman : Very funny. It sounds like something Charlie Sheen would say to describe his mornings.
82 Redcoat78 : The first three Italian Tornado had take off for their first strike mission with ECR equipment
83 Post contains images 11Bravo : You may want to consider NOT announcing the departure of combat aircraft enroute to Libya
84 Bennett123 : I will be a lot more relaxed about the reaction in the Middle East when I see concrete involvement from Qatar and the UAE.
85 777 : A total of 6 Italian tornados have been involved in the operations today: 4 ECR and 2 as buddy-buddy tanker. According to Skynews, all of them have co
86 Aesma : That's because they have Franco-Italian Aster 30 batteries, which can destroy medium range ballistic missiles.
87 PolymerPlane : No KC-767 action yet?
88 Beta : That's what I am wondering as well. I know the Italian has taken some delivery, but don't know whether they are ready for use yet, or still in the wo
89 Bureaucromancer : Any chance we might see one of the Italian carriers doing anything? Harriers don't seem like the best aircraft for this, but I'd love to see those shi
90 scrubbsywg : i have a dumb question: How does Canada get its CF-18's from Canada to whatever European base they are operating out of?
91 ThePointblank : A ferry flight flying with a CC-150 Polaris MRTT of course, and a couple of stops on the way. Backed up by a supply train of a pair of C-17's carryin
92 777 : AFAIK it has not been certified for operational use yet
93 777 : The only thing we know is that the Garibaldi carrier with some 8 AV-B and some EH-101 on board is operating now in the war zone between Sicily and Li
94 Spacepope : There was an AN-124 that flew CFB Trenton to Germany yesterday, May be unrelated...
95 Post contains links Mortyman : On march 19th 2011 the Norwegian government authorized The Royal Norwegian Air Force to head for Libya and prepare for missions there. Norway has appr
96 AGM100 : FOX footage yesterday showed EA-18G's preparing for operations from "Italy". Could have swore I saw the "Rooks" emblem on the tail although hard to se
97 Mortyman : This video of the Royal Norwegian Airforce F16's taking off today is so cool ! Anyone know what the first aircraft is carrying in the video tht has t
98 Post contains links AGM100 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqPhMr2_rAA Growler's ... and looks like 1,000lb and 500lb JDAMS.
99 mham001 : There is one country who does fit all of the above - and more. IRAN. A horrible foreign policy blunder.
100 tommytoyz : If you have Al Quaeda, the US, the Europeans and the Arab League - all against you at the same time - You're in trouble and an have achieved extraordi
101 wingman : Does Aviano have "Ordinance Crossing" road signs? Seems incredible that civvies would be held up by Carabinieri while massive bomb loads make their wa
102 Spacepope : No apostrophe in Growlers.... Also, from the video, the EA-18s went out unarmed except for a self-defense AMRAAM on the intake chine. JDAMS were prob
103 Aesma : Iran is threatening western countries ? Iran has had the same crazy ruler for 40 years ? Elections in Iran are far from perfect, but there is no doub
104 YVRLTN : Stopped over in PIK.
105 Post contains links 777 : Apparently a F-15 went down last night during the operations over Libya. According to the news reported by the Telegraph, the pilots seem to be OK and
106 highlander0 : Pilot, not pilots. BBC has updated it since then. I started a thread as you posted!
107 Post contains links 777 : The CNN still refers to a crew of two http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/af.../libya.civil.war/index.html?hpt=T1
108 Post contains links 777 : The Italian news website "Corriere della Sera" reports that an air-to-air combat happened between coalition fighters and a Libyan military aircraft wh
109 spantax : Can anybody guess how many ac has Gadafi yet? Where could they be now, hidden somewhere in the dessert? Can they be destroyed on the ground if they ar
110 GDB : It's always been hard to say, not numbers, but effectiveness wise. He brought lots of Mig-23's (the export version with the Mig-21 radar - thus negat
111 11Bravo : Of the 109 MiG-23s procured by Libya over the years, only a very few were still operational when this conflict started. Some have now been captured (
112 GDB : I made the mistake of including the Mirage 5 aircraft they brought, into the Mirage F-1's. About 60 of the delta version I think- though they sold th
113 mham001 : Yes, they have. And Israel too if you don't consider them western. Threaten to bomb Iran like we threatened Libya and see how many more threats you g
114 Post contains links Beta : Press reports now have reported that indeed the USAF's newest and meanest fighter jet, the F-22 Raptor are MIA over the Libya campaign. The reason giv
115 MD11Engineer : Ghadaffi came to power in a military coup (he was a captain in the regular army back then). He knew himself that it is very easy for determined soldie
116 PolymerPlane : Bringing F-22 to libya is like bringing a bazooka to a knife fight. There's no air to air action anyway in Libya, and F-22 is not very good in attack
117 Post contains links DEVILFISH : Photos of Rafales from the aircraft carrier CdG..... http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...fales-fly-first-missions-over.html
118 Post contains links and images Mortyman : F-16s of the Royal Norwegian Airforce at the Souda Bay Base in Greece: Pictures curtesy of Norwegian media; Aftenposten, Dagbladet, NRK and VG[Edited
119 Beta : Same can be said to virtually almost all B-2 bombing mission since its introduction. And yet the B-2 just went on and dropped bombs in Libya a few ni
120 PolymerPlane : Well it was a bombing mission, and B-2s are bombers. What mission would it fly? Well it won't fly among its rivals. Why waste the best of the best wh
121 Bennett123 : Surely you expose to technology to an extent every time it flies anywhere. So what do you do, just lock it in a hangar somewhere.
122 Post contains links tugger : It appears that things are moving towards a "Bosnia style" shared oversight solution: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...us-nato-libya-operation-i
123 Bureaucromancer : Pretty much. So far as I know they have never deployed outside the United States on anything like an operational basis... I support the aircraft as w
124 Mortyman : The Norwegian F16s has now been asigned to the US North African branch and the Odyssey Dawn operation. Two of the six F16 today took of from the base
125 Post contains links osteogenesis : It has been reported that a French Rafale has destroyed an Libyan plane just after it landed. Strange that this plane was able to make an entire fligh
126 francoflier : Details are sketchy so far. Some say the aircraft was about to land or even on the ground. It could be that it made a tentative take off to test how
127 GDB : Reportedly hit by an air to ground weapon released from the Rafale.
128 ThePointblank : Canada has also sent 2 CP-140 Aurora's (P-3 Orions with the sensor suite of the old S-3 Viking) to the region to help patrol the coast, add to Canada'
129 Post contains links Mortyman : - 3 laserguided bombs were launched from 2 F-16 of the Royal Norwegian airforce on Friday 25.03.2011, against Libyan tanks http://www.aftenposten.no/n
130 Post contains links Mortyman : F-16s from the Royal Norwegian Airforce bombed an airfield in Libya during the night http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/03/26/nyheter/utenriks/libya/1595976
131 Post contains links AGM100 : EC-130 commando solos are operating ... check out this sight. The man is twittering picked off radio signals from coalition air control. Man that seem
132 Post contains links and images DEVILFISH : Nice ones..... View Large View MediumPhoto © Carlos Aleman - SJU Aviation PhotographyView Large View MediumPhoto © K. BellView Large View MediumPhot
133 Mortyman : Norwegian F-16s has now performed 15 - 20 sorties and dropped 12 to 15 bombs on targets ranging from tanks, artillerary and other millitary targets.
134 Post contains links Spacepope : Thought this was interesting to watch: Malta live ATC http://vm4-nat.surleweb.eu:1084/VirtualRadar/GoogleMap.htm# Seen a few NATO E-3s, a French E-2,
135 Post contains links GDB : Cockpit footage from a RAF Tornado GR.4; (Interesting mix of LGB and Brimstone missiles - CAS mission). Some CAS sorties have involved RAPTOR recce po
136 bikerthai : Great footage. Almost like if I was there! bikerthai
137 Post contains links Mortyman : By April 15th 2011 the Norwegian F16's has flown over 80 sorties and dropped over 100 bombs. http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/04/15/n...iks/libya/nato/for
138 par13del : Today 19th April 2011 the BBC is reporting that UK military officers will be deployed to Libya in the opposition stronghold to assist with logistics e
139 Post contains links DEVILFISH : Video inside RAF Sentinel..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13361379
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