wilco737 From Greenland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 8542 posts, RR: 78 Posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 12152 times:
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Just saw that on the news.
German Air Force Airbus was flying from Germany to India and wanted to overfly Iran. Shortly prior entering Iranian airspace the overflight permission was revoked and the airplane had to circle around turkey for 2 hours until they were allowed to continue.
The airplane had to land in Turkey to refuel.
wilco737 From Greenland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 8542 posts, RR: 78 Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11717 times:
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Quoting Burkhard (Reply 2): It looks like
a) one Iranian agency did not know what the other did
b) somebody in Iran wanted to show their muscles
Or some mistake was made during flight planning. One airplane had the permission to overfly the Iran, the other did not. That could happen.
The mistake doesn't need to be automatically on Irans side. Perhaps the Germans made a mistake as well.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7839 posts, RR: 27 Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11589 times:
Not sure if this is the right forum here since that was a government flight.
No, seriously, the overflight rights had been applied for and granted by Iran. They are playing funny games and they could not care less about the diplomatic affront which results out of this. The Iranian ambassador has already been summoned to the foreign office in Berlin, he will get the usual speech which is by the textbook and that will be it.
The background of all this is, Germany has just ordered an Iranian Bank in Hamburg to close and hit the road and that bank has handled the financial transaction of an Indian / Iranian oil deal.
What a beautiful chance to slap Mrs Merkel in the face for that by holding her for 2 hours in Turkish air space?
BAW217 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2007, 117 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11352 times:
The Iranian Airports Company who look after the airspace above Iran and are very efficient and helpful. Theran ACC's air traffic controllers are probably the best in the Middle East and Southern Asia. If they had no clearence for the aircraft, they would not allow it to enter.
Diplomatic clearence for Iran is not the easiest thing to obtain, I know the British Government avoids the use of Iranian airspace on all diplomatic flights (Military charters and Military aircraft), because Britian has no Defence Attache in Tehran who would be responsible in obtaining them and keeping a solid working relationship with the Iranain ministry of foreign affairs, who are responisble for issueing diplomatic clearences.
AirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1550 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11286 times:
As per GC from Berlin to Delhi by passes Iran completely. Why the need to go over Iran then? Maybe there are certain limitations but i am not aware of them and would be keen to learn.
wilco737 From Greenland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 8542 posts, RR: 78 Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11016 times:
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Quoting AirIndia (Reply 7): As per GC from Berlin to Delhi by passes Iran completely. Why the need to go over Iran then? Maybe there are certain limitations but i am not aware of them and would be keen to learn.
In a perfect world you would always fly great circle distance. but not in the real world. Many airspaces are closed and you have to take huge detours to get to your destination or because ther are simple no overflight rights or it is too expensive to go the shorter way (yes that's possible). ATC is very different in many countries, some are extremly expensive and you avoid these airspaces and take the detour instead.
Routing to India often takes you over Iran, not all the way through, mostly only a part and then via Pakistan to India. Did that many times myself. Of course you have to consider the winds. Maybe the winds over Iran were better.
spr773 From India, joined Jun 2008, 155 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10304 times:
Speaking of detours if I remember correctly El-Al does not overfly several Arabic countries. So their flight paths often zigzag over friendly airspace when coming in to land in Israel.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11742 posts, RR: 51 Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9522 times:
Perhaps Merkel did not, or could not overfly Pakistan? That would make a diversion through Iran neccessary. India and Pakistan are not on good terms, but does the ATC system in each country coordinate for transit aircraft with each other?
My guess is Iran knew Merkel was aboard (poosibly due to the call sign?), and wanted to embarass her?
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7839 posts, RR: 27 Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8950 times:
The route was over the Caucasian moiuntains, the Caspian Sea into Iran and from there over Pakistan to India. The Iranian authorities most certainly knew that Mrs Merkel was on that VIP flight and it was a direct political affront. They did not even pick up the phones and it was someone from the Turkish government whoi finally reached the clearance on behalf of the German government, More or less last minute, as otherwise the A340 would have had to refuel at ANK.. The visit in India is timed for 24 hours and it looks like the 2 hours have to be cut somewhere in the program
breiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1815 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8814 times:
Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 1): A second Luftwaffe Airbus with four german ministers/secretaries was allowed to enter the iranian airspace and continued to India as planned.
Now, a different angle on that news.
Two ac, one A340 and one A310 maybe, to carry the German officials?
Not to put all the eggs in the same basket, or Chancellor Merkel and Defense Minister de Maizière don't talk to each other?
EZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4943 posts, RR: 28 Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8814 times:
Is it possible that some mistake was made with the flight plan? I don't think Iranian authorities are that stupid to create a diplomatic problem for a previously approved flight. If they didn't want them to fly Iranian airspace, they would have denied the flight plan in the first place.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7839 posts, RR: 27 Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8342 times:
Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 15): Is it possible that some mistake was made with the flight plan?
absolutely not.they had all the clearances. This is an unprecendet diplomatic affront, at least for a German head of government. Foreign office, chancellory and air force would not put tha delegation into jeopardy and despatch the aircraft without clearances.
Quoting breiz (Reply 14): Two ac, one A340 and one A310 maybe, to carry the German officials?
The second one could be an A319 as well, large delegation to carry, jurnalists, business people , quite normal to send 2 aircraft. Other countries despatch 2 747s
EZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4943 posts, RR: 28 Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8248 times:
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 16): absolutely not.they had all the clearances. This is an unprecendet diplomatic affront, at least for a German head of government.
But then why allow one plane and not the other? I agree that a mistake at this level is nearly impossible, but I can't see the sense of allowing one plane only.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7839 posts, RR: 27 Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7862 times:
We have only one Chancellor and she was on the plane that was denied overflying Iran. The four ministers on the other aircraft were of lesser interest.
SolarFlyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 397 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7659 times:
Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 17): But then why allow one plane and not the other? I agree that a mistake at this level is nearly impossible, but I can't see the sense of allowing one plane only.
That's good point. Why only approve one plane. It could be good an old fashioned mistake but my guess is that its not.
The government has a long history of retaliating with the inverse of what was done to them (not refueling planes in IKA e.g.) so I would not be surprised to find out that one of their diplomatic flights did not receive airspace to carry Ahmadinejad or the likes. By waiting to the last second, they make it that much for inconvenient. Sadly, the US does something similar for Visas for undesirable speakers at the UN in New York City.
B738FlyUIA From Switzerland, joined Dec 2009, 483 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6036 times:
Quoting PanAm1971 (Reply 23): It is HIGHLY unlikely this was a mistake
I guess so to! And as mentioned in the thred there where some parties involved. Meaning the right hand doens't know what the left one is doing!!
TR will follow; ZRH-DME SVO-HKT, HKT-SIN, SIN-KUL, KUL-HKT, HKT-SVO & DME-ZRH on LX, UN and AirAsia
25 EZEIZA: I agree a mistake is highly, highly unlikely, but I still can't see any logic in allowing one plane in. If Iran is trying to send a message of some so
26 PanHAM: I did not write that in my previous reply, but since that explanation was not sufficient - the Chancellor is a woman, whereas the other ministers are
27 RobK: I think it's quite funny! Merkel must have been raging.
28 B777LRF: EZEIZA, If we suppose the purpose of this action was to insult Mrs. Merkel, it could be seen as an added benefit letting the accompanying flight slip
29 Semaex: So did the A340 refuel in Turkey or did it not? Some posts here state one or the other. What I read so far is that it was the purpose-maiden's flight
30 oldeuropean: No it's said, that she was sleeping while it happened and later:
31 something: I may be way off with this, but hasn't Ahmadinejad been denied access to or overflight rights over certain countries lately? I seem to recall somethin
32 goblin211: interesting. i think at this piont any ally of the US is more than likely to be not a friend with Iran. i don't see what the problem is with permittin
33 EZEIZA: fair enough, and I don't disagree that this might be the case, but then why hide it? What could Iran possibly prove, or gain from not allowing the pl
34 NoUFO: No, they did not refuel in Turkey. The Iranians now claim the pilots had used the wrong call sign and the Iranians "needed only 20 minutes to sort ou
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