EGSUcrew From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 82 posts, RR: 0 Posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6646 times:
Hi all,
Apologies if this is in the wrong section, please move it if it is.
There's no good news article to link to but this is roughly what happened:
At Duxford's (EGSU) Flying Legends show this afternoon (10th july), an A-1 Skyraider and a P-51 Mustang collided mid-air. The collision caused the tail section of the Mustang to seperate from the aircraft. The pilot ejected and the parachute was effective; he has been taken to hospital for checks but reports claim he walked away from the accident. The airframe plunged into a field from around 300' and I would assume it has been lost but no confirmation of it's condition. The Skyraider lost part of its wing but managed to land safely; as of 1900L, the aircraft was still on runway 24R/06L (the grass runway).
EGSUcrew From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 82 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6395 times:
Could've been far worse. A matter of inches could've resulted in total losses. There was a sigh of relief in the crowd after we saw the 'chute blossom.
Navion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 987 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6172 times:
Lucky for the Mustang pilot he was able to get out as the Mustang does not have an ejection seat. Glad both pilots appear to be alright. Now to find out which Mustang was destroyed.
EGSUcrew From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 82 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6146 times:
Quoting Navion (Reply 3): Lucky for the Mustang pilot he was able to get out as the Mustang does not have an ejection seat.
Sorry I don't know why I put that, I meant 'escaped'!
Considering the speed of the fallng aircraft, he did well to open the hatch. I coldn't see but I was wondering because he was doing a low pass at a relatively low speed on quite a warm day whether he had the canopy slightly open?
Quoting Navion (Reply 3): Now to find out which Mustang was destroyed.
And yes, I am trying to find out. BTW, the Skyraider involved was RM-24143 / F-AZDP
moose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2020 posts, RR: 12 Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6113 times:
Quoting Navion (Reply 3): Now to find out which Mustang was destroyed.
After 31 Jerries, 6 Japs and 65 years she is now forever gone. I'm really, very glad everyone involved is ok but I am really saddened to know that I saw the bird for the last time yesterday. It's almost unreal!
HaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2073 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5925 times:
Ouch, I'm afraid the Frenchman with the Skyraider is going to need close to the full 2mil € coverage of standard liability insurance to pay for this..
Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
HaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2073 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5685 times:
KPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2542 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5682 times:
Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 13): Am I alone in thinking the Skyraider pilot misjudged?
No. I don't like to point fingers but from the amateur eye, that definitely looked like mainly the fault of the Skyraider pilot. I can't imagine the horror that was experienced after he realized what had happened.
View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
spudsmac From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 284 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5670 times:
Bring the Skyraider back as a CAS aircraft! It worked just as it was designed!
To fly something like those aircraft in a show with this much following, both pilots would've been highly skilled with lots of experience. Not ruling out pilot error but I think its wrong to start accusing at this stage.
And KPDX, the Skyraider pilot stayed in the aircraft for a long time after he'd come to a stop, hard to imagine what he must've been feeling.
BrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 984 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5594 times:
Quoting EGSUcrew (Reply 16): To fly something like those aircraft in a show with this much following, both pilots would've been highly skilled with lots of experience. Not ruling out pilot error but I think its wrong to start accusing at this stage.
Indeed. It looked like the Mustang didn't fly the expected sharp turn to downwind like all the other aircraft did, and the Skyraider pilot didn't expect that. The basic rules of this specific maneuver however state that you should never exceed the bank angle of your predecessor, which the Skyraider obviously did, plus he pulled a lot more G's than the Mustang in front of him..
Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
spudh From Ireland, joined Jul 2009, 278 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5476 times:
I'm absolutely no authority on this and I'm sure there are probably multitudes of reasons why the skyraider should not have collided in any case but it looks to me like the mustang was loosing speed and altitude even before it was hit.
The Mustang turned first from a position where they all had equal speed so you would have thought that it should have had horizontal seperation from the Skyraider unless it was slowing down to allow a rejoin.
I think the Mustang was in trouble before the collision.
BrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 984 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5405 times:
Quoting spudh (Reply 18): I think the Mustang was in trouble before the collision.
Even if that was the case, the rule of never exceeding the bank angle of the predecessor is there just to prevent disaster in this case.
If you have a bank angle higher than your predecessor, and he slows down or does something unexpected for any reason, the only way you can get away from him is rolling even further until being inverted and pulling out. Not a good idea when flying a display at 200ft. When your bank angle is lower, all you have to do to be safe is give a little roll imput (in this case to the right) and pull your stick and you're clear..
Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
spudh From Ireland, joined Jul 2009, 278 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5389 times:
Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 19): If you have a bank angle higher than your predecessor, and he slows down or does something unexpected for any reason, the only way you can get away from him is rolling even further until being inverted and pulling out. Not a good idea when flying a display at 200ft. When your bank angle is lower, all you have to do to be safe is give a little roll imput (in this case to the right) and pull your stick and you're clear
trigged From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 497 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5286 times:
egronenthal From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 54 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5231 times:
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14409 posts, RR: 26 Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5084 times:
Quoting spudsmac (Reply 15): Bring the Skyraider back as a CAS aircraft! It worked just as it was designed!
An F-35 put through the same ordeal would likely be a very expensive bonfire. Progress...
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
25 spudh: Maybe not, remember that Israeli F-15 that made it back minus a wing. Not that I'm saying the F-35 is equal to an F-15 in any way
26 EGSUcrew: I was focussing mainly on the Mustang but the Skyraider did look like it was going down so with the aircraft in that condition, the pilot did amazingl
27 rcair1: What is interesting to me is that in both the videos and the stills after the collision - the P51 appears less damaged than the A-1. I'm really rather
28 GPHOTO: I wondered about this as well. The collision must have been quite substantial to take off the end of the Skyraiders wing. A close look at the photos
29 Garpd: The running theory on a historic aviation forum is the impact caused the fuselage to bend and control cables to jump from their pulleys and go slack
30 rcair1: That would certainly make sense. Still amazing the pilot could recognize that _and_ get out in time. Brain was running fast....
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