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P-51 Mustang And A-1 Skyraider: Mid-Air Collision  
User currently offlineEGSUcrew From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 85 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7875 times:

Hi all,
Apologies if this is in the wrong section, please move it if it is.

There's no good news article to link to but this is roughly what happened:

At Duxford's (EGSU) Flying Legends show this afternoon (10th july), an A-1 Skyraider and a P-51 Mustang collided mid-air. The collision caused the tail section of the Mustang to seperate from the aircraft. The pilot ejected and the parachute was effective; he has been taken to hospital for checks but reports claim he walked away from the accident. The airframe plunged into a field from around 300' and I would assume it has been lost but no confirmation of it's condition. The Skyraider lost part of its wing but managed to land safely; as of 1900L, the aircraft was still on runway 24R/06L (the grass runway).


Skyraider Hits P-51 at Duxford


[Edited 2011-07-10 12:49:42]

[Edited 2011-07-10 12:50:18]

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinen53614 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7637 times:

From the sound of it, this could have been much worse! I'm glad the Mustang pilot was able to get out and that the Spad landed safely.


B722 B732 B733 B734 B735 B73G B738 B739 B742 B752 B772 A320 A319 CRJ2 DHC8 E135 E140 E145
User currently offlineEGSUcrew From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7624 times:

Could've been far worse. A matter of inches could've resulted in total losses. There was a sigh of relief in the crowd after we saw the 'chute blossom.

User currently offlineNavion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7401 times:

Lucky for the Mustang pilot he was able to get out as the Mustang does not have an ejection seat. Glad both pilots appear to be alright. Now to find out which Mustang was destroyed.

User currently offlineEGSUcrew From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7375 times:

Quoting Navion (Reply 3):
Lucky for the Mustang pilot he was able to get out as the Mustang does not have an ejection seat.

Sorry I don't know why I put that, I meant 'escaped'!

Considering the speed of the fallng aircraft, he did well to open the hatch. I coldn't see but I was wondering because he was doing a low pass at a relatively low speed on quite a warm day whether he had the canopy slightly open?

Quoting Navion (Reply 3):
Now to find out which Mustang was destroyed.

And yes, I am trying to find out. BTW, the Skyraider involved was RM-24143 / F-AZDP

[Edited 2011-07-10 14:36:34]

User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2325 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7342 times:

Quoting Navion (Reply 3):
Now to find out which Mustang was destroyed.

"Big Beautiful Doll"

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Radoslaw Idaszak




KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineNavion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7293 times:

Quoting moose135 (Reply 5):
"Big Beautiful Doll"

What a shame. Thanks for the information guys. Glad the pilots are o.k., sad we lost a great warbird.


User currently offlineEGSUcrew From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7253 times:

Quoting Navion (Reply 6):

We lost the B-17 a few weeks ago and now the Mustang, a real shame.

Incidently, does anyone know how many Mustangs are currently airworthy?


User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7185 times:

Dangit! My favourite Mustang!  

http://www.flickr.com/photos/planebl...in/set-72157627159565538/lightbox/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/planebl...in/set-72157627159565538/lightbox/

After 31 Jerries, 6 Japs and 65 years she is now forever gone. I'm really, very glad everyone involved is ok but I am really saddened to know that I saw the bird for the last time yesterday. It's almost unreal!

More pictures:
http://forum.scramble.nl/viewtopic.php?p=511889
http://www.challoner.com/aviation/pix/2011/07/10/pix/IMG_5877.JPG



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineEGSUcrew From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7174 times:

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 8):

Great images. Thanks for sharing. Still very sad to see though


User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7154 times:

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 8):
More pictures:
http://forum.scramble.nl/viewtopic.p...11889

Great photos of them just before and after!! Thanks for sharing.


Like everyone else I'm very glad the pilots came thru this alive, and also saddened to lose another great plane.



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2754 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7136 times:

Video of the accident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qME7VefLxFw



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7122 times:

Quoting KPDX (Reply 11):
Video of the accident.

Ouch, I'm afraid the Frenchman with the Skyraider is going to need close to the full 2mil € coverage of standard liability insurance to pay for this..



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6914 times:

Quoting KPDX (Reply 11):
Video of the accident

Am I alone in thinking the Skyraider pilot misjudged?



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2754 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6911 times:

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 13):
Am I alone in thinking the Skyraider pilot misjudged?

No. I don't like to point fingers but from the amateur eye, that definitely looked like mainly the fault of the Skyraider pilot. I can't imagine the horror that was experienced after he realized what had happened.



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlinespudsmac From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6899 times:

Bring the Skyraider back as a CAS aircraft! It worked just as it was designed!

User currently offlineEGSUcrew From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6853 times:

Quoting KPDX (Reply 14):

To fly something like those aircraft in a show with this much following, both pilots would've been highly skilled with lots of experience. Not ruling out pilot error but I think its wrong to start accusing at this stage.

And KPDX, the Skyraider pilot stayed in the aircraft for a long time after he'd come to a stop, hard to imagine what he must've been feeling.


User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6823 times:

Quoting EGSUcrew (Reply 16):
To fly something like those aircraft in a show with this much following, both pilots would've been highly skilled with lots of experience. Not ruling out pilot error but I think its wrong to start accusing at this stage.

Indeed. It looked like the Mustang didn't fly the expected sharp turn to downwind like all the other aircraft did, and the Skyraider pilot didn't expect that. The basic rules of this specific maneuver however state that you should never exceed the bank angle of your predecessor, which the Skyraider obviously did, plus he pulled a lot more G's than the Mustang in front of him..  



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlinespudh From Ireland, joined Jul 2009, 301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6705 times:

I'm absolutely no authority on this and I'm sure there are probably multitudes of reasons why the skyraider should not have collided in any case but it looks to me like the mustang was loosing speed and altitude even before it was hit.

The Mustang turned first from a position where they all had equal speed so you would have thought that it should have had horizontal seperation from the Skyraider unless it was slowing down to allow a rejoin.

I think the Mustang was in trouble before the collision.


User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6634 times:

Quoting spudh (Reply 18):
I think the Mustang was in trouble before the collision.

Even if that was the case, the rule of never exceeding the bank angle of the predecessor is there just to prevent disaster in this case.

If you have a bank angle higher than your predecessor, and he slows down or does something unexpected for any reason, the only way you can get away from him is rolling even further until being inverted and pulling out. Not a good idea when flying a display at 200ft. When your bank angle is lower, all you have to do to be safe is give a little roll imput (in this case to the right) and pull your stick and you're clear..



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlinespudh From Ireland, joined Jul 2009, 301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6618 times:

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 19):
If you have a bank angle higher than your predecessor, and he slows down or does something unexpected for any reason, the only way you can get away from him is rolling even further until being inverted and pulling out. Not a good idea when flying a display at 200ft. When your bank angle is lower, all you have to do to be safe is give a little roll imput (in this case to the right) and pull your stick and you're clear

Gotcha, thanks for the clear explanation.  


User currently offlineEGSUcrew From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6557 times:

Update on the Mustang pilot - reports suggest his 'chute blossomed at around 100' and he walked away with only a broken arm.

The aircraft is still in a field half a mile west of Duxford (totally destroyed) and the AAIB will investigate.


User currently offlinetrigged From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6515 times:

Another good video of the collision: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14106730

User currently offlineegronenthal From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6460 times:

More photos:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ils-mid-air-collision-airshow.html


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15747 posts, RR: 27
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6313 times:

Quoting spudsmac (Reply 15):
Bring the Skyraider back as a CAS aircraft! It worked just as it was designed!

An F-35 put through the same ordeal would likely be a very expensive bonfire. Progress...



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
25 Post contains images spudh : Maybe not, remember that Israeli F-15 that made it back minus a wing. Not that I'm saying the F-35 is equal to an F-15 in any way
26 Post contains images EGSUcrew : I was focussing mainly on the Mustang but the Skyraider did look like it was going down so with the aircraft in that condition, the pilot did amazingl
27 rcair1 : What is interesting to me is that in both the videos and the stills after the collision - the P51 appears less damaged than the A-1. I'm really rather
28 GPHOTO : I wondered about this as well. The collision must have been quite substantial to take off the end of the Skyraiders wing. A close look at the photos
29 Garpd : The running theory on a historic aviation forum is the impact caused the fuselage to bend and control cables to jump from their pulleys and go slack
30 rcair1 : That would certainly make sense. Still amazing the pilot could recognize that _and_ get out in time. Brain was running fast....
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