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F-16 Overruns Runway At Oshkosh, Details?  
User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2098 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11308 times:

On this sites homepage there are pictures of an F-16 that ran off the runway at Oshkosh and had the nose gear collapse, does anyone know any of the details surrounding that? Glad the pilot is okay and looks like the airframe will be too.



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Photo © Daniel MacFarlane



[Edited 2011-07-29 08:54:36]


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41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2098 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11246 times:

Here is a video of it happening... he looked wicked fast on his rollout. A pilot that was taxiing out commented elsewhere that the F-16 looked high on his base, overshot final and took a bit too get lined up properly. The pilot that made that comment was told by the tower to shut down after this incident happened. It'll be interesting to find out what was going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS8xFBgfp-Q



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User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2098 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 11024 times:

Here is an amazing sequence of great photos catching the entire overrun unfold.

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-201...f16-incident,0,628759.photogallery



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User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11003 times:

What a flaming moron... that pilot ought to be stripped of her wings and booted out of the service.

User currently offlineFoxTwo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 10979 times:

Unbelievable! I wouldn't expect a ppl to misjudge a field that badly . What the HELL were they thinking? Go around ffs . Do they seriously not know their aircraft that well?

User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2312 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10953 times:
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Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 2):
Here is an amazing sequence of great photos catching the entire overrun unfold.

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-201...llery

It looks like the FJ4 that overran a few hours later is in picture #21 with the F-16. Looks like that was taken later (presumably after the FJ4 overrun). Apparently they dragged the F-16 off to the side some.


User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2098 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10920 times:

Quoting rwessel (Reply 5):
It looks like the FJ4 that overran a few hours later is in picture #21 with the F-16. Looks like that was taken later (presumably after the FJ4 overrun). Apparently they dragged the F-16 off to the side some.

That is the FJ4 but I seriously doubt the F-16 has been moved. Just my opinion. Perhaps the FJ just veered right to avoid tail striking the Falcon?



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User currently offlinechecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10892 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 3):
What a flaming moron... that pilot ought to be stripped of her wings and booted out of the service.

Wow...sounds serious! Since your passing judgement, what exactly happened? What was the official cause? I can't imagine you'd make those comments without knowing, so please fill us in.

Thanks.


User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2312 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10862 times:
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Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 6):
That is the FJ4 but I seriously doubt the F-16 has been moved. Just my opinion. Perhaps the FJ just veered right to avoid tail striking the Falcon?

My thinking was that a new obstacle just off the end (and the F-16 clearly didn’t go very far) of a runway will often close it, or significantly shorten its usable length. 18/36 is only 8000ft long as it is, shorten that by much and you're going to start having issues with some of the higher performance birds.


User currently offlineFoxTwo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10761 times:

Wait a minute - I have to get this straight. There were two jet aircraft which landed long - and went into the grass on the very same day? What part of this is normal?

On a side note, did John McCain re-enlist in the USAF :P


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10758 times:

Quoting checksixx (Reply 7):
Wow...sounds serious! Since your passing judgement, what exactly happened? What was the official cause? I can't imagine you'd make those comments without knowing, so please fill us in.

Thanks.

What else do you need to know? Unless of course for the obvious total hydraulic failure and no brakes, I don't see anything further deliberate. I know today's Air Force is a kinder, gentler Air Force but the sad fact of the matter is, there is nothing to justify this result.

I'm not advocating that the pilot is a bad person, they just no longer have a place in an F-16 bang seat. Send them to AMO school or something to finish out their obligation, just don't waste any more F-16's to this pilots horrible decision making process.

In what will ultimately be most damaging in this pilots case will be the fact that his wingman landed his F-16 seconds before he, and had no problem. If he was so far down the runway as he apparently was, he should have executed a missed approach before he even set his main wheels down. If this guy was a Navy carrier pilot perhaps the decision to go around would have been easier for he to make, as "wave off's" are not an uncommon event when landing on the back of a carrier deck. Why didn't he perform a go-around and execute a missed approach? Was he afraid that all the people there looking at him would laugh?

But whatever his reason, it does not matter - the end result remains the same.

Something told this pilot that he could still land half way down the runway or wherever the spot that he was, and that he could still stop. But he wasn't even close. Anybody can get complacent and develop bad habits that otherwise lead to errors in judgement, but not just anyone can fly a fighter jet.

So unless this guy had a complete and total loss of braking ability, as far as I see it this event is more than enough to halt the military flying career of the pilot involved; it's indefensible. Time for he or she to move on to that next phase of their life. There are plenty of other pilots who can fill his seat and who don't have a gross error in judgement on their record such as this.

Of course, I could be wrong - I'm open to others opinions.


User currently onlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2902 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10706 times:

Aircraft is a 1988-build block 30, no chin inlet targeting pods. I doubt it will be repaired. Most of these old ANG airframes are high time (The F-16s up at Buckley have a few jets with over 7000 hours). It'll probably be swapped for another of the better block 30s that have recently been sent to AMARG.


The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineairtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3702 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10503 times:
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Quoting FoxTwo (Reply 9):
On a side note, did John McCain re-enlist in the USAF :P

Highly unlikely being that he was a Navy man, not an Air Force. Nice try.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineFoxTwo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10501 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 10):

So unless this guy had a complete and total loss of braking ability, as far as I see it this event is more than enough to halt the military flying career of the pilot involved; it's indefensible. Time for he or she to move on to that next phase of their life. There are plenty of other pilots who can fill his seat and who don't have a gross error in judgement on their record such as this.

Of course, I could be wrong - I'm open to others opinions.

This will not happen. Pilots sometimes make bad calls . The CAF / USAF have both put pilots back in the cockpit after careless incidents. Mind you, I agree that it is blatantly obvious he touched down WELL BEYOND the touchdown markers and as a result - he is probably grounded pending the investigation. Does the F16 not have a long roll out when compared to other fighters? Look at where the first viper touches down -then look at the second. Night and day.


User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2098 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10421 times:

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 12):
Quoting FoxTwo (Reply 9):
On a side note, did John McCain re-enlist in the USAF :P

Highly unlikely being that he was a Navy man, not an Air Force. Nice try.

Its a funny reference though because McCain has had more than a couple aircraft accidents/incidents.



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlineFoxTwo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 day ago) and read 10250 times:

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 12):
ghly unlikely being that he was a Navy man, not an Air Force. Nice try.

Aw, did I touch a political nerve? I was asking if he re-enlisted in the USAF- as he is now retired from the USN with a good # of accidents under his belt! Once a wildman always a wildman.


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (3 years 22 hours ago) and read 10200 times:

36 is a full ILS runway at 8,000' in length, throw in the flight path marker from the HUD, just no excuse not to have executed a missed approach and just say it was part of the airshow!



User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3466 posts, RR: 47
Reply 17, posted (3 years 20 hours ago) and read 10144 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 10):
If this guy was a Navy carrier pilot perhaps the decision to go around would have been easier for he to make, as "wave off's" are not an uncommon event when landing on the back of a carrier deck.

Wave-offs ARE relatively UNcommon during CV ops. And USN CV pilots do NOT initiate such wave-offs when the do occur! I am not sure how being a USN pilot would have changed any decision to go around in this instance.

Quote:
Why didn't he perform a go-around and execute a missed approach?

That is one of the questions to be answered by the mishap investigation. Any potential negative consequences will likely be highly influenced by that answer. IMHO, one does not rush-to-judgement without knowing the facts.

AAR90
ex-USN mishap investigator



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User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (3 years 17 hours ago) and read 10065 times:

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 17):
Wave-offs ARE relatively UNcommon during CV ops. And USN CV pilots do NOT initiate such wave-offs when the do occur! I am not sure how being a USN pilot would have changed any decision to go around in this instance.

I gotcha. I meant to imply that it is not too terribly UNcommon to to miss a wire and have to go-around for another attempt at landing on the carrier. My point was that maybe perhaps being an AF fast moving jet pilot and not otherwise used to aborting a landing attempt, perhaps the pilot tried to make this landing work when he just should have given up on it, and went around?

One can obtain a lot of facts from just the video about on the internet, something that most mishaps don't usually have the luxury of. An exact same type of plane landed safely just moments ahead, but this ship came in fast and landed long, to that I do not think one can too terribly argue. Sure, maybe he had a reason like he had a braking issue or a gremlin on his wing, but that will like you say, be up to AIB to figure out.


User currently offlineNBGSkyGod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 797 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 14 hours ago) and read 9982 times:

Quoting FoxTwo (Reply 9):
Wait a minute - I have to get this straight. There were two jet aircraft which landed long - and went into the grass on the very same day? What part of this is normal?

Its EAA Airventure, there are usually several non-major wrecks a day during that event, and usually at least 1 fatality. Accidents are treated the same way NASCAR and F-1 treat wrecks, the move it off to the side, clean up the derbies and continue business as usual.

OSH during this time is the busiest airport in the US and sometimes the world, doing more ops in 12 hours than ORD does in 24. A lot of pilots get caught up in the urgency to put it on the ground and sometimes accidents happen.



"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently offlinecdekoe From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9506 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 3):
What a flaming moron...

Hardly...

I was there when it happened, standing near the end of the runway.

It was a flight of two F16's, doing several fast fly-by's for the public.
We noticed that number two (the incident plane) did not use afterburner at all, while the lead F16 did so consistently.

Both approaches looked OK from a distance. The lead F16 landed to the right of the centerline, the incident plane behind it, slightly to the left of center. The lead slowed down normally and took the high speed taxiway to the right, just as the other F16 started to overtake him. The lead had speedbrakes deployed, the incident plane did not.
It also appeared the incident plane's engine was not running - we missed the characteristic whistling noise. Several people around me commented on this as well.
So, the first conclusion of us spectators was that the incident F16 lost it's engine shortly before landing, or while rolling out.
Without the engine, obviously he did not have any hydraulics (wheel brakes and speedbrake) and had no choice but to use the grass for a buffer.

He didn't punch out, and did not fire up the EPU - saving the public from the dangers of a seat dropping on some folks, and the hydrazine fumes from his EPU.

He did open the canopy really quickly, jumped out and ran like a bat out of hell...



We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.
User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1308 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9464 times:
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Quoting cdekoe (Reply 20):
t also appeared the incident plane's engine was not running - we missed the characteristic whistling noise. Several people around me commented on this as well.

Hmm - looking at photos 12 and 13, it seems like the engine was running _a little_ anyway. Though it may be 'ram air' going through as the snout plowed up the ground...Could have been spooling down.



rcair1
User currently offlineULMFlyer From Brazil, joined Sep 2006, 475 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9391 times:

Quoting cdekoe (Reply 20):
I was there when it happened, standing near the end of the runway.

Good info! I arrived at OSH on Friday, so I missed this. What an experience though. Watching Fifi start up right in front of me and flying on Aluminum Overcast.

Anyway, while watching the video, I was thinking: "God, I hope he didn't screw up. Talk about a walk of shame!"

Also, the FJ4 is the same that landed gear up at Pensacola, isn't her? Anybody knows what was the cause of that mishap?



Let's go Pens!
User currently offlinewingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2216 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days ago) and read 9262 times:

I'm surprised no one mentioned the last photo. I think it's the most telling with the guy just camped out in his portable lazy boy chair safeguarding his Vespa and clearly thinking "I see wiped out F-16s every day".

User currently offlineThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1680 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 6452 times:

FYI,

The accident report is out:
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/Sit.../Day22/022112_ACC_%20F-16C_AIB.pdf
Cause in a nutshell:
The environmental control system caused extreme fogging that completely obscured the pilot's visual cues and severely affected correct execution of normal landing procedures. The pilot could not defog the cockpit in a satisfactory manner to see and reference his visual cues. Without the necessary visual clues, the pilot did not apply adequate aerobraking which increased his landing distance, and as a result, ran into the grass.


25 Post contains links and images Gyreaux130J : Look at all the fog!! Additionally a quick search for the words "Speed Brakes" in that document yielded no results I'm not buying it.[Edited 2012-02-
26 ThePointblank : You missed this on the executive summary:
27 Gyreaux130J : So I did... but my point remains. The lack of use of speed brakes played a major role in this incident.[Edited 2012-02-24 23:45:31] It's just that thi
28 ThePointblank : Because it was the former; the pilot didn't apply enough aerobraking according to the report, because he got distracted and disoriented by the foggin
29 Gyreaux130J : I just fundamentally disagree with the report that the pilot lost all SA on the ground because of some fogging in the cockpit. I'm not one to monday
30 ThePointblank : Well, according to the accident report, the fogging was really bad; the pilot could barely see his own instruments: Had the pilot been able to mainta
31 checksixx : While I also disagree with the conclusion's they've developed based on the findings, I can only say...it is, what it is. I think most aviators in gene
32 Post contains links Gyreaux130J : I have friends who have seen the SIB report on this accident and said it was a S##t show. It pisses me off that the Air Force is letting this guy off
33 Post contains links 2H4 : I was thinking the same thing until I read that the fog obscured the pilot's view of his instruments. I'm not convinced a safe go-around could have b
34 checksixx : Well I'm not convinced either, just my thoughts...he was already in an unsafe situation. I guess I would have jettisoned the canopy than risk the ent
35 2H4 : The AIB does seem inconsistent, doesn't it? On one hand, the F-16 pilot was absolved of any and all fault, but Haney was faulted for being distracted
36 ThePointblank : Not an option on the F-16. When you jettison the canopy, it is a very violent procedure; there are rockets attached to the canopy that go off when yo
37 checksixx : Jettisoning the canopy is definitely an option! Hence the reason it can be in the first place. I'm well aware how it works and in this case it would
38 ThePointblank : No it isn't especially considering how close bystanders were; you want the canopy flying off in a random direction, possibly heading towards the crow
39 Post contains images Gyreaux130J : Probably the ONE right decision that guy made, aside from not ejecting. Which is debatable given the Viper's proclivity for doing this: when going of
40 Post contains images 2H4 : I think Checksixx knows what he's talking about.
41 checksixx : You apparently have never seen an F-16 canopy jettison. I assure you they jettison up, and to the rear of the aircraft....unless there was tornado li
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