Saintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2 Posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1785 times:
I was wondering how relations between the Army and Airforce will be after the war has finished. There has been several more occurances this time compared to the last Gulf war and the excuse that 'it happens' seems to me to be wearing a bit thin. There are still incidents happening and they are not finished yet so it is not unreasonable to think more will happen (although I hope not).
I wonder how the Army are jugding their airforce colleagues, we already know that some of the British Forces are none too happy with certain 'cowboys' and I don't know if that feeling is spreading.
I do realise that an awful lot of things are happening out there and you don't get to hear all the good things that go on, but it is the negative things that tend to get publicised more in the media.
Do you think that there is likely to be a big rift between the forces and will that be a problem in future conflicts or will they get together, analyse what went wrong so that it doesn't happen so often next time?
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12951 posts, RR: 79 Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1638 times:
One area of real concern has to be Patriot, as well as downing a RAF Tornado, and locking on to a USAF F-16 (who was fortunate to have a HARM to take out the radar), it looks like a USN F-18C was shot down by one as well.
Some A-10 pilots need some serious training in non-US vehicle recognition, all the IFF in the world might not have prevented the attack on the Scimitar light tanks, as it was a visual 30mm cannon attack.
That incident is the one which has caused real consternation, the rest we don't know much about (apart from the attack on the Kurds/US Forces which was filmed).
If what the survivors of the Scimitar attack say is accurate, a court martial maybe (they had a big Union Jack on the vehicle).
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12951 posts, RR: 79 Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 1623 times:
I should add that the A-10's have done well in this conflict, incredible footage of then firing the GAU-8 cannon, lots of anti air assets in Baghdad, they've done well to lose only one aircraft.
Bad though the A-10 'friendly fire' incident was, I'm sure once the sortie rates are known, and the support they gave to the ground troops, it will be seen in context.
But if someone (from any armed service) is found to have been negligent, then the investigation and if necessary, trial and punishment process, must be transparent.
2912n From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 2013 posts, RR: 8 Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 1624 times:
Don't underestimate the difficulty of air to ground recognition...I can tell you that it is a bear at 50 knots and low altitude and no one shooting at you...Mulitply that for an A-10 pilot at 250 KTS and fire coming up at you, alarms going off in your ears...SUch is the difficulty that we are probably stuck with blue on blue incidents in any type of war fare.
The best antidote for it is constant training combining ground and air assets. Sadly that costs money, and in between wars, well, we know the bucks won't be there.
Negligence is a difficult thing to prove in combat. So many things are happening so quickly and there is such am incredible amount of information to process under the stresses of combat how do you show that someone was negligent or just a tenth of a second too quick or too slow in making a decision? Better than going on witch hunts to lay blame the problem should be addressed before the encounter by proper training.
G-KIRAN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2000, 736 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 1621 times:
Actually the same type of A-10 friendly fire accident happened in the first Gulf War as well.On a clear day a USAF A-10 took out 2 UK Challenger tanks despite the fact that they were flying Union Jacks.The DOD and MOD managed to cover the whole thing up though.