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C-17 Leasing Option?  
User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3882 posts, RR: 27
Posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4704 times:
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Looking at the slowing and eminent shutdown of the C-17 line, and considering that there may be nations out there that would procure the plane in better economic times, would it be rational for Boeing to solicit orders based on a lease with option to buy procurement plan?

OK, the tanker lease concept had problems, however there were lessons learned that could be applied to a new proposal for C-17 leasing.

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinemffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4682 times:

There were rumors we might see an order or two @ Dubai... we'll see...   


harder than woodpecker lips...
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12185 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4589 times:

IIRC, the first 5 C-17s were originally leased, by the RAF. But before the 5th airplane was delivered, the UK decided to convert the lease program to buying all of the airplanes. So, it has been done before for the C-17.

[Edited 2011-11-11 15:56:49]

User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4344 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
IIRC, the first 5 C-17s were originally leased, by the RAF. But before the 5th airplane was delivered, the UK decided to convert the lease program to buying all of the airplanes. So, it has been done before for the C-17.

The RAF's first leased C-17's was delivered in May 2001. The original leases were very restrictive and after 9-11 and the UK's became involved with the military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, the decision was made buy the leased aircraft when their leases expired and purchase an additional two aircraft.


User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3882 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4228 times:
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OK, it's been done before, however the question is if Boeing offered a lease with option today would there be any takers?

User currently offlineebj1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4220 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 4):
OK, it's been done before, however the question is if Boeing offered a lease with option today would there be any takers?

With the United States apparently not wanting any new builds and Boeing in a position where it's apparently not desperate to sell more C-17s, does it make sense to go out on a limb with a leasing program for possible "would be" buyers. Wouldn't Boeing do better to take a proactive approach and begin studying what the Air Force and other nations' armed forces might need for a C-17 replacement in the future?



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3882 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4175 times:
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Quoting ebj1248650 (Reply 5):
Wouldn't Boeing do better to take a proactive approach and begin studying what the Air Force and other nations' armed forces might need for a C-17 replacement in the future?


they are doing that I think one idea was a massive tilt rotor, and then there is the frog or whatever it is called. However with the cost of a new design and start-up costs, I think it would be better to keep the C-17 line running even at a low rate for another ten years or more.


User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2197 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4123 times:

Quoting ebj1248650 (Reply 5):

Leasing is only a risk for Boeing if there's no market for resale. Otherwise you would make money with a lease.

Besides, didn't they just sold 10 to India?

As for developing a C17 replacement, Boeing is working on the BWB plane.

bikerthai



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineGalaxy5007 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4092 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
IIRC, the first 5 C-17s were originally leased, by the RAF. But before the 5th airplane was delivered, the UK decided to convert the lease program to buying all of the airplanes. So, it has been done before for the C-17

The first 4 RAF C-17s were leased...The 5th, 6th and 7th jets were bought out right. The lease of the first 4 jets (USAF serials 00-0201-0204) ZZ171 through ZZ174 was set to expire in mid 2008. The RAF announced the purchase of the first four aircraft and purchased their 5th C-17 outright in late 2006 and was delivered in early 2008 (ZZ175, USAF serial 06-0205). As they picked up ZZ175, they bought ZZ176. The USAF gave them a production slot, so they got the jet in June of 08 (Assigned USAF serial 08-0206). In December 09, the RAF purchased their seventh jet, ZZ177 (USAF serial 09-0207) which was delivered to them in January 2011. ZZ177 wears the 10th anniversary tail art on its tail since the RAF has had their C-17 fleet running since May 2001.

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 7):
Besides, didn't they just sold 10 to India?

Yes, the India order is supposed to keep the line open through 2014. There is still an option for them to aquire another 6 jets as well. The RAF has buzz about getting a 8th C-17 and the RAAF announced its intent on getting a 6th C-17 as well. The UAE still has two jets to be delivered. A couple other countries expressed interest, but nobody else has made anything of it. There is still buzz about the USAF trying to store the tooling as well; but thats still up in the air as well.

I think they should keep the line warm; a large chunk of the USAF fleet have around 15K hours on the airframes already. I'm a C-5 guy myself, but with the retirement of 32 jets, the USAF should consider either storing the tooling, or getting a few more C-17s before nailing the coffin shut. Boeing has proposed different versions of the C-17, but nothing has been worth the cost.


User currently offlineoykie From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2755 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3984 times:

Quoting ebj1248650 (Reply 5):
Wouldn't Boeing do better to take a proactive approach and begin studying what the Air Force and other nations' armed forces might need for a C-17 replacement in the future?



I believe this is a good idea. Last year Aviation Week said Boeing looked into a C-17FE for Fuel Efficient. In short the story suggested a narrower C-17, composite materials and perhaps new engines for the Joint Future Theater Lift program.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

Quoting mffoda (Reply 1):
There were rumors we might see an order or two @ Dubai... we'll see



Other than Qatar?   

Quoting kanban (Thread starter):
however there were lessons learned that could be applied to a new proposal for C-17 leasing.




Not a bad idea. Did not someone suggest Lockheed Martin thought about this as well to use the C-5 Galaxy to offer its unique capabilities like Antonov with their An-124 and An-225?

[Edited 2011-11-14 11:27:31]


Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineBluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3659 times:

The BC-17 commercial freighter program, unfortunately, never really took hold. FedEx and UPS had looked into the idea of using civilianized C-17 fo their ops.


"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4217 posts, RR: 89
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3506 times:
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Quoting oykie (Reply 9):
Other than Qatar?

Yes, Boeing have orders for at least 1 years production in the pipeline. One is potentially as large as India's order for 10 frames.

Regards

Paul



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
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