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New Book-NAA F-107  
User currently offlineTomh From United States of America, joined May 1999, 960 posts, RR: 2
Posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4798 times:

I am currently reading Air Force Legends #203, the North American F-107A by William J. Simone. At 148 pages, this is likely the most extensive publication on this very interesting fighter. Those interested in US military aviation history may appreciate this series, as well as the well-established Naval Fighters series, both published in California by Steve Ginter. While the initial issues in the Naval Fighters series were somewhat below par Mr. Ginter steadily improved his products throughout the 1980s and by now has produced one of the most respected series of US Naval and Military aviation books seen to date.

Tomh

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4713 times:

Two survivors left.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Axel Juengerich



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon



Nice century series lineup, but no F-100 or F-104. Boggles the mind.

T.J.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineIMissPiedmont From United States of America, joined May 2001, 6294 posts, RR: 33
Reply 2, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4626 times:

"Nice century series lineup, but no F-100 or F-104." What on earth do you mean?


Damn, this website is getting worse daily.
User currently offline2912n From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 2013 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4628 times:

Look at the line up of tails. It is the -107, -106, -105, -102, and the -101. Cool lineup.

Tony


User currently offlineIMissPiedmont From United States of America, joined May 2001, 6294 posts, RR: 33
Reply 4, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4615 times:

The F-100 and F-104 are in there, just not visible from the angle.


Damn, this website is getting worse daily.
User currently offline2912n From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 2013 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4626 times:

Hahahaha, okay, they are there, but they ain't in the photo!  Smile

What happened to the F-103? Seems to me it was a Republic product like the F-105 but never made it to production. Anyone know?


User currently offlineTomh From United States of America, joined May 1999, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4627 times:

Finished the book yesterday. Very good publication by my estimate. The author was intimately involved in the salvage of 118 pictured above at Pima. I remember building the Aurora kit of this bird when I was in high school.

The F-107A had advanced automated stability systems and other features such as variable ramp intake that were not really operational with the first two of three airframes. The book mentions how much of the R&D was later successfully applied to the A3J-1 Vigilante. The F-107A made quite a contribution in spite of the fact that it did not see series production.

When I look at the info for Axel's photo above, it states, "One of the two surviving prototypes on display at Pima Air and Space Museum." I think the other survivor is actually at the Air Force Museum. Also, the third airframe was apparently destroyed during fire training at Oxnard, CA.

Off the top of my head: The F-103 was to be a Republic ramjet/rocket powered interceptor without a canopy. It was to be used against supersonic bombers, with little or no dogfighting capability. The pilot was to use a periscope of some sort. Drawings (or photos of the mockup, as no prototype was ever built) show a ventral swept-forward intake and tiny delta wings if I remember correctly. I think it may have been in competition with the North American F-108 Rapier, though the latter was a bit more conventional I don't think they ever cut metal on either of the two types.



User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4608 times:

Hey guys.

Trivia Question:

Do you know what the F-110 aircraft was?

I'll tell you later.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4599 times:

I was under the impression that the F-110 is actually the YF-110 in U.S. service, the good old MiG 21. The YF-113 is the designation for the MiG-23.

And my bad, I thought I posted a pic of each survivor. Heres the one at Wright Patterson, ca. 1970


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Steve Williams



T.J.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineBroke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4606 times:

The F-110A was the original Air Force designation for the F-4C. Once the military services standardized their designation system, the F-110A became the F-4C.

There is an F-107A at the Air Force Museum and it is in very good shape. It has been in the hangar adjacent to the Presidential Hangar, now known as the Research and Development Hangar and I believe that that is where you will find it, but the place is in transition and airplanes are being moved almost daily.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4584 times:

And we have a winner....The F4C phantom


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineTomh From United States of America, joined May 1999, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4591 times:

Well, okay, I'll get into the Phantom thing with a bit of a quiz OTTOMH. Sharpen those keyboards! I mean pencils.

I think the first two USAF wings of F-4C Phantoms worked up around 1963. I believe the 12 TFW was one of them, and perhaps the 3 TFW was the other. The aircraft looked really good, with either light gray or white finish and buzz numbers. I have read that prior to getting production F4Cs, they had been loaned some USN F-4Bs for initial work up.

1. I have often wondered if the overall white/grey paint scheme I mentioned identical to that which was being applied to USN F-4Bs at the time, or was there a different paint FSN used. Can anyone help?

2. What letters were selected in the buzz number?

3. Would they have used the loaned Phantoms much for USAF air-air refuelling work?

4. Did the Navy get their F-4Bs back?

5. Did those USAF pilots attend Top gun school in their F-4s?

6. What air-air missile was broiught into USAF inventory for the first time with the introduction of the Phantom?

7. When was the first flight of the Phantom?

8. Where did the initial USAF workup take place?

9. The GIB in the USN was a RIO, while he was a ____ in USAF.

10.Which flew higher, the F-104 or the F-4?

11. If you downed an enemy aircraft in a Phantom, the kill marking usually was applied to the _______ plate.

12. The presence of a heavy tailhook on USAF F-4s was the cause of the "tailhook scandal" (_____) YES (_____) NO.

13. Like the Air Force, the Navy operated a sizable number of recon Phantoms
(____) YES (____) No.

14. A drone Phantom is so named because of the steady noise produced by its engine(s). (____) YES (____) NO.

15. Early on engine Fan blade nicks were a common reason for grounding the Phantoms. (____) NO (____) YES.

16. Did the Phantom ever score a kill while in supersonic flight?

16.a. 5 pt. Bonus: If so, with what weapon?

17.Bonus non-Phantom question. The F-109 was a prototype effort that involved VTOL technology developed in what European country?

18. Giveaway: OTTOMH=Off the top of my head= 5 Pts.

19. In USAF service, the Phantom replaced the Super Sabre in many wings.
_______________ was to the former what Los Angeles was to the latter.

20. What alphabetic model variant (F4A-Z) letter was used for American services twice, in two unrelated roles?


User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4582 times:

3. No. Because I'm guessing they didn't have the boom style intake.

4. I'm going to say yes, who wouldn't want their Phantoms back?

5. I don't think Top Gun was established until the early 70's, or very late 60's, by which time I'd imagine the USAF would have their own Phantoms anyways.

6. Probably the AIM-7 Sparrow.

7. OTTOMH, 1957.

9. Hmm, I thought he was the GIB(S) in the USAF, trick question?

13. Yes, ("sizeable"?) I believe their version was the RF-4B, while the AF had the RF-4C, and other countries the RF-4E?

16. Yes.  Smile

20. F-4F (if you ignore the all important dash)


LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineBroke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4567 times:

Two more Phantom questions for you.
What were the original designations for the F-4A and the F-4B?

12. No The tail hook on Air Force F-4's was the same as on Navy F-4's, which was used for carrier landings.

14. The drone Phanton was the QF-4 and it was a flying target.

19. St. Louis


User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4578 times:

1) they were a light grey, with white elevators and rudders. This was a darker grey than what was on the navy F-4b's

2)I'm staring at a picture of "FJ-405" as an F-4B that was transferred over, 49405

3) probably not, the KC-135 normally didn't have the drogue basket fitted, and it had to be put on before flight

4)most likely, as the navy birds didn't have dual controls fitted

5)erm, uhh, maybe?

6)Sidewinder? USAF used the Falcon primarily before then

7)May, 1958

8)no idea

9)WSO

10)modified f-104

11)splitter

12)no way.. the presence of navy pilots in las vegas was

13)The RF-4B's were flown by the USMC, not the navy

14)QF-4 drones were supersonic manouvering targets.. not named after their sound

15)no

16)yes, sparrow

17) france

18)

19)Seawolf?

20)F4-b



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineTomh From United States of America, joined May 1999, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 4581 times:

You guys are good. Between the three of you most were answered correctly. There were some flakey questions, or stupid questions, whatever....

1. I have often wondered if the overall white/grey paint scheme I mentioned identical to that which was being applied to USN F-4Bs at the time, or was there a different paint FSN used. Can anyone help?

Thanks for info on this Spacepope-I always thought it was not the same as the Navy's paint job. Those early USAF F-4s looked sweet!

2. What letters were selected in the buzz number?
Yes, Spacepope, it was "FJ"

3. Would they have used the loaned Phantoms much for USAF air-air refuelling work?
Agreed, they wouldn't have practiced AAR much because USAF was to use the flying boom method with their Phantoms. Oddly enough, if you had an ex-F-100 pilot in the USAF Phantoms then, he probably had plenty of experience with the hose-drogue method, as that was how the F-100C (and D?) did AAR.

4. Did the Navy get their F-4Bs back?
I think I read that they did get them back.

5. Did those USAF pilots attend Top gun school in their F-4s?
Yeah, I think this was too early for USN Top Gun. I wonder if the early F-4Cs had the 20mm gun pods then anyway. Most of their air-air ACM likely was simulated missile shoots.

6. What air-air missile was broiught into USAF inventory for the first time with the introduction of the Phantom? The Sidewinder was in the USAF inventory from around 1958 onward, while the Sparrow was the missile the Phantom brought to the USAF inventory, much to the disdain of the AIM-4 Falcon-loving brass. Eventually the Falcon would become operational on F-4Ds, at least for a while.

7. When was the first flight of the Phantom?
Shit Hot Popester, May '58.

8. Where did the initial USAF workup take place?
MacDill AFB, FL.

9. The GIB in the USN was a RIO, while he was a ____ in USAF.
Yes, WSO.

10.Which flew higher, the F-104 or the F-4?
I'm talking zoom climbs here.The F-104A exceeded 91,000 feet the same month the F-4 Phantom first flew. The Phantom exceeded 100,000 Ft. in April, 1962. The rocket-assisted NF-104A attained 120,000 ft.in Dec 1963, though I would not have been referring to a "one-off" special mod like this in my question.
11. If you downed an enemy aircraft in a Phantom, the kill marking usually was applied to the _______ plate.
Yes, splitter plate.
12. The presence of a heavy tailhook on USAF F-4s was the cause of the "tailhook scandal" (_____) YES (_____) NO.
NO!!! It had nothing to do with the scandal, and I was chuckling the whole time as this really was a pretty bogus question.
13. Like the Air Force, the Navy operated a sizable number of recon Phantoms
(____) YES (____) No.
NO, the RF4Bs were USMC aircraft as Spacepope pointed out. So why didn't the Navy opt for the RF-4 if it was so good?

14. A drone Phantom is so named because of the steady noise produced by its engine(s). (____) YES (____) NO.
NO, it was an unmanned target drone.
15. Early on engine Fan blade nicks were a common reason for grounding the Phantoms. (____) NO (____) YES.
NO, the J-79 was a turbojet engine, not turbofan.
16. Did the Phantom ever score a kill while in supersonic flight?
I didn't know the answer, but I believe the Popester on this
16.a. 5 pt. Bonus: If so, with what weapon?
And this.
17.Bonus non-Phantom question. The F-109 was a prototype effort that involved VTOL technology developed in what European country?
I recall the 109 was a Bell Aircraft project that involved a three-letter consortium (like VKW or something) in Germany. The straight winged aircraft had rotating twin jets at each and of its stubby-remember? Or maybe I'm all screwed up and thinking of something else.
18. Giveaway: OTTOMH=Off the top of my head= 5 Pts.

19. In USAF service, the Phantom replaced the Super Sabre in many wings.
_______________ was to the former what Los Angeles was to the latter.
Yes, St.Louis, where it was built. B'Jeezus, they call the place Boeing now, don't they? Pope, you musta' been thinking about submarines by the sound of it.
20. What alphabetic model variant (F4A-Z) letter was used for American services twice, in two unrelated roles?
I ain't giving you guys this one. The USN F-4G Phantom first flew in 1963, and the USAF F-4G Phantom, (Wild-Weasel variant) first flew in 1975. This repeat use of the G designation was a DOD screw-up far as I can see.

Thanks for your efforts, guys.


User currently offline2912n From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 2013 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 4562 times:

I think (dangerous thing...) that the Navy did not use the RF=4 because it had the RA-5 Viggie in service as a dedicated recon platform.

User currently offlineTomh From United States of America, joined May 1999, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 4553 times:

Roger that 2912n, and for shorter missions they still had the very capable
RF-8G Crusader, a type that served active Navy units well into the 1980s.


User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 4540 times:

To get technical, the plane that hot 100,000 feet in the zoom was an F4H-1.
the F-4G (original) program consisted of 12 F-4B's that were used in digital data link trials. Temporary designation only. Just filling in the blanks.

T.J.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineTomh From United States of America, joined May 1999, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (11 years 5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4548 times:

Regarding your question about original designations for the F-4A and F-4B. Frankly, I don't think there is an easy answer. I think that the F-4A is the post-1962 designation for the F4H-1. If there was a F4H-2, it likely became the F-4B.

But it's not that simple. The F4H-1 was originally designated AH-1, though this may have been before any flying airframes were produced. Like most programs, there is still an earlier designation you can dust off. The designation I am referring to is F3H-H. This reveals an interesting aspect to the origin of the Phantom. For years I thought it was derived from the F-101 Voodoo, but historically it rather seems to be a close descendant of the F3H Demon.


User currently offline2912n From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 2013 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (11 years 5 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4517 times:

Tom- Have you seen the RF-4 Moon shot?

User currently offlineTomh From United States of America, joined May 1999, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (11 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4534 times:

Moon shot? Uh, oh, this could be fun. Ahh, do you mean the verb moon as in, "The WSO mooned the entire flightline following his last combat mission?" Or do you mean a photograph of the familiar lunar subject as taken by the cameras in an RF-4? I think I saw the former when it happened, but nothing comes to my (already blank) mind when I ponder the latter.

No-I haven't seen it.


User currently offline2912n From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 2013 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (11 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4516 times:

Tom-I sent you an email.

Tony


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (11 years 5 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4497 times:

They didn't even have to invert the aircraft to do it.




OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineTomh From United States of America, joined May 1999, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (11 years 5 months 6 days ago) and read 4478 times:

Well, one of the first things they do when you enter the military is have you drop your drawers for inspection. Obviously the pilot here was multi-tasking part of his flight physical. Quite efficient, don't you think?

A present-day equivalent image would have me stating "his/her flight physical." Then we would all be clamoring for more image resolution!!


25 Broke : The F-4A was the F4H-1, which could be identified by its low profile canopies. It was an F-4A that set the world speed record. In addition to the low
26 Tomh : Very interesting Broke. I recall seeing photos of the low-profile canopy. Was this type canopy found only on the speed record aircraft, or all F-4As?
27 Post contains images Broke : Tomh, all F-4A's had the low profile canopies (for some reason 27 airplanes rings a bell). The information I have (an article in Air International) is
28 Spacepope : Close! my sources say 26 F-4A's were used for development, with the production standard being reached on airframe #19. BUT... there were 2 XF4H-1's ma
29 Spacepope : L-188: Now you see why the USAF model had controls in the back seat! T.J.
30 Tomh : Broke, Yeah, I noticed the drift away from the F-107A subject. This forum seems slow most of the time, so its okay with me that we get into a differen
31 Tomh : I embellished by ommision, but hey, it reads better. In reality he hit a bulkhead with the axe. I believe that following this they located the appropr
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