B17GUNNER24 From UK - England, joined Apr 2011, 25 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 14809 times:
@bthebest
You can buy a RQ10 for a few hundred pound and it has 2 cameras but of corse this is a civilian version called the parrot ar drone http://ardrone.parrot.com/parrot-ar-drone/uk/ which is basicly the same as the real thing but is more of a toy than a hardcore piece of survailence kit =)
The sky is a open space for the raw power of jets to roam free
YTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1444 posts, RR: 23 Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14459 times:
I call BS. They shot it down and it had "minimal damage"? How'd they pull that off? I'm thinking they managed to get some friends to get some wreckage of a drone (or blew one themselves) from somewhere and are playing this off, in the hopes of creating a distraction. Now that talk of an attack on Iran is heating up more and more, they must be getting nervous.
bthebest From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 419 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13880 times:
Originally reported as RQ10, now as an RQ-170 Sentinel.
Apparently ISAF confirmed it had lost communication/control of the drone last week over Afghanistan. Some reports say that Iranian forces may have hacked the UAV.
glideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1542 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 13740 times:
Quoting bthebest (Reply 8): Originally reported as RQ10, now as an RQ-170 Sentinel.
If true. Not good at all. The RQ-170 is a Dark Recon Drone. High altitude if I'm not mistaken.
Operator "Lost Control?" Uplink?, airframe/engine failure? If it was jammed the Russians were involved.
Only going to get tougher to fly these Drones without jamming.
"All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved"
Eagleboy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1619 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13253 times:
I wonder why the Iranians felt the need to publicise this. I understand the quest for propaganda....but personally I think that if I happened to down a drone from an adversary I would keep it quiet, no need to let them know you can down their drones.........
bennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 6359 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13204 times:
You assume that the USA did not know it was shot down.
Spacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2738 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 13132 times:
Quoting glideslope (Reply 9): If true. Not good at all. The RQ-170 is a Dark Recon Drone. High altitude if I'm not mistaken.
Operator "Lost Control?" Uplink?, airframe/engine failure? If it was jammed the Russians were involved.
Only going to get tougher to fly these Drones without jamming.
Medium altitude (wing aspect ratio not optimal for high altitude: think WB-57, U-2, RQ-4)
I'd be surprised if Russia was involved. Hizbulla (Iran's proxy in Lebanon) has been making news lately about using a similar technique with an Israeli drone, recovering one recently. If these storeis are true, there are also rumors that the drone was intentinally landed in Lebanon as a trojan horse, recovered by Hizbulla, brought back to base, and responsible or that huge arms depot explosion a few weeks back when it finally went "pop". Iran could maybe have been using a similar technique, or maybe they had nothing to do with the downing at all.
USAF had an RQ-9 that went out of contact and headed towards Iran a few years ago, but an F-15E shot it down. Earlier than that an MQ-1 in Iraq was headed uncontrolled towards the Iranian border but an F-16 downed it too.
redflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4179 posts, RR: 30 Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 13126 times:
Quoting Spacepope (Reply 12): USAF had an RQ-9 that went out of contact and headed towards Iran a few years ago, but an F-15E shot it down. Earlier than that an MQ-1 in Iraq was headed uncontrolled towards the Iranian border but an F-16 downed it too.
I thought these drones, especially the higher-tech ones, had self-destruct mechanisms on them? It would be dumb to put classified equipment in an unmanned vehicle and then send it over hostile territory with no way of ensuring some of the sensitive gear or even the majority of the airframe would be neutralized if contact is lost.
Spacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2738 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13007 times:
Quoting redflyer (Reply 13): I thought these drones, especially the higher-tech ones, had self-destruct mechanisms on them?
Here's an interesting article. Claims operators can basically wipe all software and data remotely. http://www.popsci.com/military-aviat...go-wild-air-force-shoots-them-down
Now, if contact is lost, how would you use self destruct? Seems dangerous to ground crews, though QF-4s do carry old AIM-9 warheads for this purpose.
HaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2069 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 12973 times:
Quoting Spacepope (Reply 14): Now, if contact is lost, how would you use self destruct? Seems dangerous to ground crews, though QF-4s do carry old AIM-9 warheads for this purpose.
And the QF-16 was just tested with the same thing at Eglin AF.
redflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4179 posts, RR: 30 Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12775 times:
Quoting Spacepope (Reply 14): Now, if contact is lost, how would you use self destruct?
My first guess would be the drone could have a certain amount of autonomy built-in. If it loses contact with its operator it could go into a "parking" mode (flying a predetermined pattern) waiting for contact to be reestablished. After a period of time (just a few minutes) it could autonomously wipe any recorded data and fry any sensitive electronics, and then self-destruct. If it loses contact with its operator AND becomes unstable in flight, or maintains contact but just becomes unstable and can't regain wings-level (indicative of taking hostile fire) then that scenario could also trigger self-destruct.
Having a self-destruct mechanism doesn't necessarily make it more dangerous for ground crews. As you pointed out, these drones can already carry armament, some of which have far more destructive power than would be needed to obliterate the drone.
Spacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2738 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12757 times:
Quoting redflyer (Reply 18): Having a self-destruct mechanism doesn't necessarily make it more dangerous for ground crews. As you pointed out, these drones can already carry armament, some of which have far more destructive power than would be needed to obliterate the drone.
That is very true, however all armament functions are "man-in-the-loop", whereas the self-destruct would be (basically) autonomous use of explosives. It may be perfectly reliable, it just makes me uneasy from a safety standpoint. AFAIK no US drone has a self-destruct function as of now.
The other functions are already used in drones (flying a set pattern) and we've even seen a loss due to a bad "fly home" command after lost contact: A drone in Congo supporting a UN mission tried to fly home, however the home base wasn't reset from the factory default, so it tried to make it back to Ireland IIRC.
redflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4179 posts, RR: 30 Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 12716 times:
Quoting Spacepope (Reply 19): That is very true, however all armament functions are "man-in-the-loop", whereas the self-destruct would be (basically) autonomous use of explosives.
There could be ways around that issue, such as having the self-destruct capability disarmed when the drone is below a certain altitude. That would indicate the craft is near to landing. It could be an automatic feature or one that is part of the pre-landing checklist procedures at the command center.
Quoting Spacepope (Reply 19): AFAIK no US drone has a self-destruct function as of now.
That being the case, all of this discussion we are having is moot (but nonetheless fun to speculate). I'm sure the geniuses who design, build, and deploy these machines already gave consideration to this issue and, for whatever reason, decided the cons outweigh the pros. Hopefully they considered the fact that these machines would come down in hostile territory on occasion, and have planned for that eventuality.
Quoting Spacepope (Reply 19): A drone in Congo supporting a UN mission tried to fly home, however the home base wasn't reset from the factory default, so it tried to make it back to Ireland IIRC.
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29350 posts, RR: 62 Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 12439 times:
I double we are hearing what really happened from either the Iranians or the US. In fact the Iranians have claimed to have shot down three other drones and not a single piece of wreakage has ever been shown on their TV. The Soviets made the most of their shootdown of Gary Powers and publicaly displayed the wreckage, so why not now.
But I will say that if this is because a weaknees in the datalink system for fllight controls it does make a serious arguement for maintaining a manned survelience aircraft.
I double we will see SR-71's being reclaimed from museums anytime soon though.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
HaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2069 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12231 times:
Quoting Spacepope (Reply 16): I know... I started the topic on here about it!
Doh! I remember the thread but forgot who started it.. sorry!
Quoting L-188 (Reply 21): I double we will see SR-71's being reclaimed from museums anytime soon though.
If there were an aviation Genie granting my wishes we would!
When you hit 't' for doubt is it hittng 'l' and 'e'? Two doubles sir!
tu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 904 posts, RR: 19 Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 11835 times:
Impressive.
I do hope that they will share the spoils, so to say.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
25 F27Friendship: I guess that is a very impressive mock-up which they built in the mean time while showing pictures of the Dassault Neuron. Is it me or does that look
26 wannabe: Given the shape it appears to be in, there is no way this was either shot down or landed "out of control". There doesn't seem to be a scratch on it. E
27 holzmann: Haha. No way this thing is the real deal: http://i1.nyt.com/images/2011/12/09/...dleeast/09iran/09iran-hpMedium.jpg I think they consulted the Macy's
28 Acheron: For a mockup they do show a lot of close-ups to the different panels and parts of the plane in some pictures. At this point, I'm starting to think it
29 mffoda: Makes you wonder why "they" (Iran w/ Russian and Chinese help) aren't bringing down the rest of other UAV's currently flying in their airspace?
30 WingsFan: US officials are now confirming that this is true. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...s-downed-us-drone/?test=latestnews I still can't fathom how
31 glideslope: IMO, it was taken over via uplink, and most likely was carrying some type of unknown Bug that allowed it to be commandeered. I don't think the images
32 kmz: so, how long until iran sells it to china?
33 canoecarrier: That drone didn't crash, no way. There really aren't that many ways that they could have brought the plane down in that condition. Shooting it down i
34 wannabe: What's scary is that, if they can actually hack the reconnaissance versions, what's to prevent them from hacking the armed versions and turning them a
35 redflyer: Doesn't even look like composite. It's too shiny. I watched the video on CNN and the camera lights were shimmering off the thing. Flying out in sunli
37 ZANL188: Why would they tip their hand? I think the real problem here is that IF it was hijacked that means that secure comms were penetrated.
38 Spacepope: I'm still doubtful this is an RQ-170. *the size is too small. RQ-170 is reported to have a 26m wingspan. This thing in Iran has one 1/3 that size *why
39 MoltenRock: LMAO! It's so funny reading the American deniers posts. Come on boys, our military got PWND, just like we PWND the Iranian centrifuges with the Subnex
40 mffoda: Maybe I should have used a smile face?? Iran is full of shit! Plain and simple... They don't have the capability to keep their own A/C in the air rel
41 Spacepope: Sure we have. We also had Taiwan fly U-2s over mainland china. The inlet screen for the engine (reported to be the TF-34 of the S-3/A-10- and still t
42 glideslope: Not just lazy, but arrogant. IMO, probing has been going on for at least a year. Must be people on the inside. The Enigma Deciphering is a very good
43 dvautier: This is what I can see happened. The drone was inside Iran doing recon. It was suddenly given an acceptable “land” command. It did not have time t
44 Dreadnought: And that's the problem. Iran is surely shopping this thing around and will allow Russia and China access - in return for billions in military hardwar
45 tu204: In my opinion, Iran does not have the technology to do what it did. I am sure it would have been the other way around actually. More like: we ask Ira
46 glideslope: Agree completely. Your largest gain will be in the engine/propulsion arena. I doubt there is much in the drone you don't have on a Thumbdrive. But li
47 canoecarrier: Good post, but I was curious: We all agree on that point, or they wouldn't have the drone Who would have sent that command? Would we ever do that to o
48 india1: I find it hard to believe that the Iranians have a capability that our good neighbours to the West don't. All said and done, they're (the Pakis) prett
49 airplaneaddict: In my opinion the drone provably had a communication hardware failure. This probably caused kept its current heading or went into a holding pattern an
50 LifelinerOne: According to the Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockhee...ntinel#Specifications_.28RQ-170.29 the wingspan is 43 feet, or 13 meters. Duri
52 par13del: Do you actually know the cost to develop the software, communications and build the actual drone also operate it, I'm sure we are already in the real
53 Acheron: A site containing a good analysis of the images available of the RQ-170, so far. http://aviationintel.com/?p=4322 http://aviationintel.com/?p=4476
54 wannabe: Consider this scenario. The US, using newer than RQ10 technology, uncovers Iranian facilities manufacturing nuclear capable weapons. Now comes the que
55 HaveBlue: None of the scenarios I've heard so far made much sense to me, but I like your version the best. And if that's not how it went down, maybe it should
56 wvsuperhornet: wow something else made by lockheed martin that is defective what a superise.
57 bennett123: Another option is that you let them have an RQ10, but strip all the best stuff, then Iran, russia and China all think that the RQ10 is not much good.
58 MoltenRock: LMAO! That would make a great movie plot! However, in the real world Occum's Razor applies. Far less glamourous I know.
59 XT6Wagon: more likely is someone's buddy got the no-bid contract and they made this thing in thier garage..... And thats why it looks so crude, someone was get
60 katekebo: I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this, yet: http://articles.cnn.com/2011-10-10/u...omputer-virus-drones-uavs?_s=PM:US It cyber warfare it doesn
61 MadameConcorde: Obama calls on Iran to give back downed US drone - Yahoo! News President Barack Obama said that the U.S. wants the top-secret aircraft back. "We have
62 redflyer: The Iranians would not have done it, but the Chinese certainly could have. But regardless of who did it, there would be far more value in keeping the
63 canoecarrier: From one of the linked articles above: With early knowledge that the aircraft had likely remained intact, the senior U.S. official also told Fox News
64 redflyer: If that drone is the real deal, it does not appear to be the latest generation drone. It has a "fence" covering the intake a la F-117. I would guess
65 MadameConcorde: Are the poor US government not getting their way? Cry me a freaking river. The US was spying, end of discussion. Their spy plane went down, I say find
66 redflyer: I think it's just a formality to lay claim to the equipment, especially in the event it or any part of it ends up outside of Iran. If it is the real
67 dvautier: They’ve probably got the real drone hidden somewhere safe. They did have time to make a rough replica and paint it weird like that. I don’t believ
68 wannabe: No problem Madame C. We will stop asking. And when the nukes start arriving in your neighborhood via Iranian airmail, you can depend on those Patriot
69 474218: According to the news organizations the RQ-170 was designed to do several things if communications was lost by its controllers. 1. Self destruct! 2. R
70 par13del: Additionally, has anyone thought to call Uncle Bill, not Clinton, the other one, it could very well have been the BSD which we windows users encounte
71 ALTF4: Those things are not running XP or 7. Not even XP embedded. And I doubt even Windows CE, which is the real-time OS version of Windows. I bet they're
72 MadameConcorde: You must be watching too much TV. It might still be several years until such a thing can happen.. if ever. In the mean time it could be other nukes f
73 dvautier: Drones like this can fly all by themselves and have redundant means of navigation. If something unexpected happens such as an attempt to take over con
74 MadameConcorde: Iranians are not as stupid as some think they are. Here's the newest story. First comes US spy drones next comes US spy satellites. Report: Iran 'bli
75 zanl188: Spying is not necessarily a bad thing. As both the US & the Soviet Union discovered during the cold war, it is a good & ultimately peaceful e
76 zanl188: Using topography to navigate would require the drone to emit, not a good thing stealth wise. It could navigate optically tracking either stars or top
77 redflyer: I think the reason they have the lower surface blocked off is because that is where all the sensors are located. I don't think they could show it unl
78 bennett123: Why would they need to replicate it?. The USA knows what the underside looks like, but no one else does. Or at least no one is going to say what it lo
79 redflyer: Because a drone definitely went down in Iran, and most likely was obliterated when it did. However, it would appear the U.S. doesn't know how or why
80 bennett123: Regardless of what image of the underside is shown, 99% of the world will not KNOW if it is the real thing. The only people who will know are the US G
81 Revelation: I was listening to a program on the radio earlier about drones. It was amazing to me none of the experts would talk about the 'asymetric warfare' asp
82 Flighty: Agreed. Drone strategy gets deep quickly. If we invent this, we should prepare to defend a lot of things against a lot of hostile drones. Right now A
83 AsianDude: I'm assuming then you would find the same to be true if all of a sudden Chinese, Iranian, North Korean, or Pakistani drones were found flying over US
84 zanl188: Since none of those countries has the capability to launch such a drone operation, except perhaps China, let's make it simple. These countries could
85 redflyer: The first part of that statement is true. Doubtful the second part is. (Don't assume an oil exporter has lots of cash lying around when they have a b
86 Revelation: If they have the cash for breeder reactors, countless cyclotrons, the deep underground bunkers to house them, etc, I think they have the cash needed
87 AsianDude: WTH are you going on about? The USA doesn't have "open skies" with anyone regarding recon aircraft. Quite the opposite in fact. If a Russian, Chinese
88 redflyer: Then it's not necessarily the cash that they have, which is probably limited, but the will to use it for things that don't benefit their citizens (a
89 zanl188: Hate to break it to ya, but USA does have such a treaty. No need for drones to do recon on the US.... Actually proposed way back in the 50s by the Ei
90 AsianDude: Dude, stop trying to dig yourself into an ever bigger hole! The USA does not, will not, and has not, allowed military recon flights from overflying i
91 ThePointblank: Wrong. Treaty on Open Skies allows for unarmed aerial surveillance flights over the entire territory of its participants. These flights are for mutua
92 zanl188: I guess all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary doesn't matter... Russian (and other former Soviet block countries) military recon aircraft hav
93 AsianDude: Give me a break! You're trying to claim that Iran needs to only sign the "open skies treaty" and they could readily and openly overfly US airspace wh
95 india1: Conitnuing with the above arguments... Plainly, there's a world of a difference between overflights under Open Skies treaties and what the US does in
96 ZANL188: My point in regard to Open Skies is that Iran could simply open it's peaceful nuclear program to inspection and allay all mistrust in that regard.
97 mandala499: Why not the chinese? Looking at some details of the pictures at http://aviationintel.com/?p=4322 does not make it likely that it was a "controlled la
98 ALTF4: I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. gov't and select others could, but sign me up on the "surprised" list if Iran is able to. The packet level analys
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