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Which Fighter Is The Most Automated?  
User currently offlineChamonix From France, joined Mar 2011, 295 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5654 times:
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Which fighters have the most automation in terms of pitch,roll and trim?

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineArniepie From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 1265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5649 times:

In use today, I would say Typhoon, it's basically fly and forget, also the F-22 is probably at least at the same level
but less is known about its handling characteristics/automation, so we can only speculate about it.



[edit post]
User currently offlineebj1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5625 times:

If we're going to speculate, I have a feeling the F-35 will prove to be the most automated warplane built, up to the present. Given all that it's supposed to be able to do, the pilot will need all the automation he can get to help reduce the workload.


Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineopso1 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 527 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5284 times:

I never could get the auto-landing system to work well in the Harrier. The switch brought the wheels down, but always landed with a huge thump when flown hands-off...  

User currently offlineAutothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5233 times:

Quoting Arniepie (Reply 1):
In use today, I would say Typhoon, it's basically fly and forget

   The Typhoon uses a quadruplex digital fly-by-wire control system providing artificial stability. The FBW is fully automated and feature care free handling and envelope protections at all times.



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlineChamonix From France, joined Mar 2011, 295 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5152 times:
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Quoting Autothrust (Reply 4):
The Typhoon uses a quadruplex digital fly-by-wire control system providing artificial stability. The FBW is fully automated and feature care free handling and envelope protections at all times.


Must be a dream to fly...the best out there hands down!

"In 2004, United States Air Force Chief of Staff General John P. Jumper said after flying the Eurofighter:
"I have flown all the air force jets. None was as good as the Eurofighter."


User currently offlinechrisco1204 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4963 times:

Quoting Chamonix (Thread starter):
Which fighters have the most automation in terms of pitch,roll and trim?

Fighters typically aren't very automated. Autopilots and fancy avionics cost money and weight, and are typically not very important for the kind of missions fighter aircraft fly. As such, there usually aren't autopilots.

With that said, many fighters (like the F-16) incorporate fly-by-wire flight control systems which are a form of automation, but not an autopilot.

I hope that helps.


User currently offlinelegs From Australia, joined Jun 2006, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4832 times:

Quoting chrisco1204 (Reply 6):
Fighters typically aren't very automated. Autopilots and fancy avionics cost money and weight,

Fighters are probably the most automated planes, down to the simple fact that often a single pilot has to carry out the tasks that not many years ago would have taken a crew of three or four. 'Fancy' avionics are crucial to a modern fighters abiity to fight effectively, incorporating navigation, weapons control, active and passive electronic warfare, active and passive sensors both onboard and offboard, as well as powerful self monitoring and fault diagnosis routines, and are often a significant portion of a fighters development (Look at the software update schedule for the F-35, for instance).

Quoting chrisco1204 (Reply 6):
As such, there usually aren't autopilots.

Things like autopilot in modern fighters are (generally, though I'm sure there are exceptions) not separate systems, but are sub-sections of the main flight control system software. I don't know of any that don't have autopilot functions, even the original lightweight F-16.

Quoting Chamonix (Thread starter):
automation in terms of pitch,roll and trim?

From my (somewhat limited, I'm not across the Russian designs) knowledge, I'd argue that most of the current 4.5 or 5th generation FBW fighters are all roughly the same level of automation when it comes to handling pitch, roll, yaw and trim. All will have active envelope protection, terrain protection and warnings, high maneuverability, air to air and air to ground modes, as well as advanced fault handling routines and a bajillion other things I've haven't thought of.


User currently offlineflagon From France, joined May 2007, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4769 times:

Quoting Autothrust (Reply 4):
The Typhoon uses a quadruplex digital fly-by-wire control system providing artificial stability. The FBW is fully automated and feature care free handling and envelope protections at all times

All modern fighters like F16 use artificial stability, not a big deal at all. As per flight envelope protection, it would be a shame not to have it in todays fighters since in civil aviation I believe it was introduced for the first time on the A320 in the eighties....



Stephane
User currently offlineChamonix From France, joined Mar 2011, 295 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 4739 times:
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Quoting flagon (Reply 8):
civil aviation I believe it was introduced for the first time on the A320

Yes.
IIRC,the pre-cursor (semi-automated) was Concorde (in terms of CG inflight weight transfer) who rehashed it from the Vulcan.
I watched a programme with Feldzer who said "Sans le Concorde on n'aurait jamais pu faire l'A320".


User currently offlineflagon From France, joined May 2007, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4732 times:

Quoting Chamonix (Reply 9):
the pre-cursor (semi-automated) was Concorde (in terms of CG inflight weight transfer)

Thats right

Quoting Chamonix (Reply 9):
"Sans le Concorde on n'aurait jamais pu faire l'A320"

I think without the Concorde maybe the whole Airbus GIE would never have existed (at least in its current shape) as on top of the technologic learnings, it's also the lessons learned for organising a multi-national programme in a economical way that have set the fundations of Airbus....



Stephane
User currently offlineAutothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4556 times:

Quoting legs (Reply 7):

Fighters are probably the most automated planes, down to the simple fact that often a single pilot has to carry out the tasks that not many years ago would have taken a crew of three or four. 'Fancy' avionics are crucial to a modern

Couldn't agree more. The DVI is exactly such a fancy system which reduces highly the workload of the pilot.

Quoting flagon (Reply 8):
All modern fighters like F16 use artificial stability, not a big deal at all

I don't deny that, but the question was which fighter is most automated and not if it features artficial stability. It was just explanation.  
Quoting flagon (Reply 8):

As per flight envelope protection, it would be a shame not to have it in todays fighters since in civil aviation


Wrong, the Typhoon is the first fighter which provides care free handling with envelope protections at all times. It was quite an accomplishment as the plane was built in mind to have the highest instabillity possible. They had to linearisize the effects of unlinear aerodynamics to make the envelope protecions.


By the way the Autopilot features besides basic modes, auto-climb, auto-attack, and auto-approach.



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlinewvsuperhornet From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4394 times:

Quoting Chamonix (Reply 5):
"In 2004, United States Air Force Chief of Staff General John P. Jumper said after flying the Eurofighter:
"I have flown all the air force jets. None was as good as the Eurofighter."

Thats funny he said the same thing about the F-22 and the F-35 also.


User currently offlineAutothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 4354 times:

Quoting wvsuperhornet (Reply 12):
Thats funny he said the same thing about the F-22 and the F-35 also.

Source?



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlinewvsuperhornet From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 4344 times:

Quoting Autothrust (Reply 13):
Source?

Previous articles posted in these forums.


User currently offlineAutothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4301 times:

Quoting wvsuperhornet (Reply 14):

Previous articles posted in these forums.

Great source as always from you.  



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently onlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1535 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4295 times:

Quoting Autothrust (Reply 11):
auto-attack

Could you possible expand a bit on this one? Is this auto-attack as in automaticaly attacking a target? Or more in the region of auto-AoA?



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlineAutothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4285 times:

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 16):
Could you possible expand a bit on this one? Is this auto-attack as in automaticaly attacking a target?

Yes and no the Typhoon's autopilot is part of the tactical systems. It can fly several programmed tactical maneuvers like auto-attack, auto-intercept,auto-escape, auto-patrol, auto-recovery etc.. But it doesn't fire the weapons automaticly.



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlinewvsuperhornet From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4201 times:

Quoting Autothrust (Reply 15):
Great source as always from you.

Sorry I have no intetions on wasting my time arguing with someone who has a closed mind the eurofighter,F-22 are both good aircraft equal to the point until you get into stealth there also was a british pilot who flew the F-22 who comments both are good aircraft but if he went into battle he would prefer the F-22 blah blah its a personal choice live with it Both are good aircraft I doubt if you look at it neither one has a superior technological advantage over the other and will likely never face each other in battle.


User currently offlineAutothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4145 times:

Quoting wvsuperhornet (Reply 18):
Sorry I have no intetions on wasting my time arguing

Then your claim is worthless, you are not alone arquing with me i guess the other posters also would like to know if there is some truth in your post.If you claim something you should back it up with some sources else it's not credible.

Quoting wvsuperhornet (Reply 18):
Both are good aircraft I doubt if you look at it neither one has a superior technological advantage over the other and will likely never face each other in battle.

You won't believe it.... i agree fully with this statement.   

I never claimed the Typhoon being totally superior then the F-22, but in some things. Likewise the F-22 is superior in some things over the Typhoon.



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently onlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1535 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4120 times:

Quoting Autothrust (Reply 17):
Quoting travelavnut (Reply 16):
Could you possible expand a bit on this one? Is this auto-attack as in automaticaly attacking a target?

Yes and no the Typhoon's autopilot is part of the tactical systems. It can fly several programmed tactical maneuvers like auto-attack, auto-intercept,auto-escape, auto-patrol, auto-recovery etc.. But it doesn't fire the weapons automaticly.

That's really cool, so I guess the F-35 will have similar provisions?

Quoting Autothrust (Reply 19):
Quoting wvsuperhornet (Reply 18):
Sorry I have no intetions on wasting my time arguing

Then your claim is worthless, you are not alone arquing with me i guess the other posters also would like to know if there is some truth in your post.If you claim something you should back it up with some sources else it's not credible.

      



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlinewvsuperhornet From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4036 times:

Quoting Autothrust (Reply 19):
Then your claim is worthless, you are not alone arquing with me i guess the other posters also would like to know if there is some truth in your post.If you claim something you should back it up with some sources else it's not credible

Dude your worse than my 10 year old, Relax its just a forum!!!!

Quoting Autothrust (Reply 19):
You won't believe it.... i agree fully with this statement.

I never claimed the Typhoon being totally superior then the F-22, but in some things. Likewise the F-22 is superior in some things over the Typhoon.

We will leave it at that, we agree on something !!!!

[Edited 2011-12-13 21:10:17]

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