Sponsor Message:
Military Aviation & Space Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Another Big F-15 Order To Saudi Arabia  
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2468 posts, RR: 5
Posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7132 times:

http://www.ksdk.com/money/article/29...s-US-to-sell-F-15s-to-Saudi-Arabia

For new aircraft and upgrades to another 70.


Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinealberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2958 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7068 times:

Wouldn't the F-35 be a better purchase instead if more f-15s or would the US not sell them any ?


short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2197 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6985 times:

Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):

Wouldn't the F-35 be a better purchase instead if more f-15s or would the US not sell them any ?

I would venture to guess they did not teach you 20th century middle east history in school  

Israel and it's supporter in congress would not allow Saudi to buy the F-35. I would not be suprised if they would stop any F-15SE sale to Saudi as well.

bikerthai



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6932 times:

Yes this sale was announced 1-year ago.

Largest US Arms Sale Ever, To Saudi Kingdom (by STT757 Sep 13 2010 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12964 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6895 times:

Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):
Wouldn't the F-35 be a better purchase instead

Actually, it'd be a better purchase for the US too....



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2468 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6874 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):

Hmmm, the way it was written, it looked like it was a new transaction.

My bad. Mods, delete if necessary.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlinealberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2958 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6866 times:

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 2):
Israel and it's supporter in congress would not allow Saudi to buy the F-35. I would not be suprised if they would stop any F-15SE sale to Saudi as well.

Wonder if that might push the Saudis to buy the Sukhoi PAK-FA ?



short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2197 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6836 times:

The Saudi have money and expect first class service and support along with their equipment. This is not a strong point for either Russian or Chinese hardware. If anything, they would go back to Europe.

Besides, they don't need stealth and they are not expecting to face an enemy with stealth capabilities (excluding Israel of course).

bikerthai



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2986 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6816 times:

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 7):

The Saudi have money and expect first class service and support along with their equipment. This is not a strong point for either Russian or Chinese hardware. If anything, they would go back to Europe.

Indeed, this is part of a package order. Here's what they got:

Quote:
WASHINGTON, October 20, 2010 – The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress today of a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Saudi Arabia of:

84 F-15SA Aircraft
170 APG-63(v)3 Active Electronically Scanned Array Radar (AESA) radar sets
193 F-110-GE-129 Improved Performance Engines
100 M61 Vulcan Cannons
100 Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System/Low Volume Terminal (MIDS/LVT) and spares
193 LANTIRN Navigation Pods (3rd Generation-Tiger Eye)
338 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)
462 AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Goggles (NVGS)
300 AIM-9X SIDEWINDER Missiles
25 Captive Air Training Missiles (CATM-9X)
25 Special Air Training Missiles (NATM-9X)
500 AIM-120C/7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM)
25 AIM-120 CATMs
1,000 Dual Mode Laser/Global Positioning System (GPS) Guided Munitions (500 lb)
1,000 Dual Mode Laser/GPS Guided Munitions (2000 lb)
1,100 GBU-24 PAVEWAY III Laser Guided Bombs (2000 lb)
1,000 GBU-31B V3 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) (2000 lb)
1,300 CBU-105D/B Sensor Fuzed Weapons (SFW)/Wind Corrected Munitions Dispenser (WCMD)
50 CBU-105 Inert
1,000 MK-82 500lb General Purpose Bombs
6,000 MK-82 500lb Inert Training Bombs
2,000 MK-84 2000lb General Purpose Bombs
2,000 MK-84 2000lb Inert Training Bombs
200,000 20mm Cartridges
400,000 20mm Target Practice Cartridges
400 AGM-84 Block II HARPOON Missiles
600 AGM-88B HARM Missiles
169 Digital Electronic Warfare Systems (DEWS)
158 AN/AAQ-33 Sniper Targeting Systems
169 AN/AAS-42 Infrared Search and Track (IRST) Systems
10 DB-110 Reconnaissance Pods
462 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System Helmets
40 Remotely Operated Video Enhanced Receivers (ROVER)
80 Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation Pods

Also included are the upgrade of the existing Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) fleet of seventy (70) F-15S multi-role fighters to the F-15SA configuration, the provision for CONUS-based fighter training operations for a twelve (12) F-15SA contingent, construction, refurbishments, and infrastructure improvements of several support facilities for the F-15SA in-Kingdom and/or CONUS operations, RR-188 Chaff, MJU-7/10 Flares, training munitions, Cartridge Actuated Devices/Propellant Actuated Devices, communication security, site surveys, trainers, simulators, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistical support services, and other related elements of logistical and program support. The estimated cost is $29.432 billion



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6610 times:

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 2):

Israel and it's supporter in congress would not allow Saudi to buy the F-35.

Reminds me of the old saying about not wishing something against even your worst enemies.   They might just let the Saudis have it for the latter to suffer the headaches of working the bugs out of early production frames.

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 7):
Besides, they don't need stealth and they are not expecting to face an enemy with stealth capabilities (excluding Israel of course).

Apart from that, it was mentioned that there would be built-in technologies which could render its capabilities ineffective against similar U.S. systems.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3864 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6431 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 5):
Hmmm, the way it was written, it looked like it was a new transaction.

Actually the contract was just signed... so in a way your news flash is correct. There are often years between when a sale is proposed for Congress to approve and the actual approval and contract signing.


User currently offlineCentre From Canada, joined Mar 2010, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6356 times:

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 2):
Israel and it's supporter in congress would not allow Saudi to buy the F-35. I would not be suprised if they would stop any F-15SE sale to Saudi as well.

Then Israel and it's supporters need to reach their pockets and match such a deal with a similar order in terms of $$$ rather than living of our tax money.

From the linked article:

Quote:
The White House says the fighter jets will be manufactured by Boeing, and will support more than 50,000 U.S. jobs.

This is the bottom line we all should look at.



I have cut 4 times, and it's still short.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6191 times:

Quoting Centre (Reply 11):
Quote:
The White House says the fighter jets will be manufactured by Boeing, and will support more than 50,000 U.S. jobs.

This is the bottom line we all should look at.

This doesn't make any sence at all. This is building 84 new F-15s, yet the KC-46 build of 179 new tankers will also support 50,000 jobs?


User currently onlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1900 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6148 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
This doesn't make any sence at all. This is building 84 new F-15s, yet the KC-46 build of 179 new tankers will also support 50,000 jobs?

It makes sense when you look at the time both projects will take. The tankers will be built over a much longer period.



Andy Goetsch
User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2197 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6131 times:

Quoting Centre (Reply 11):
Then Israel and it's supporters need to reach their pockets and match such a deal with a similar order in terms of $$$ rather than living of our tax money.

Don't worry, Israel will get their F-35. It's just that US tax payer's pocket will be the one that they will reach in to. 
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
This doesn't make any sence at all. This is building 84 new F-15s, yet the KC-46 build of 179 new tankers will also support 50,000 jobs?

Just to show how much more efficient a commercial line is versus a military line.  

Kidding aside, the quote is for 50,000 jobs, not Boeing Jobs. With all the hardware quoted by Spacescope as being purchased along with the air frames, it is plausible that 50,000 us job can be supported by this contract.

Don't forget that the contract is also to upgrade all their old F-15's, which is almost like re-building a whole new aircraft considering how much all the electronic hardware upgrade will cost. Heck, the cost of all the upgrade may even be more than the price of the original airframe (inflation not taken into account of course)   . I wonder if new engines will come with the upgrade. If yes, then might as well consider it approximately 160 frames as opposed to just 84.

bikerhtia



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7809 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5998 times:

I recall large amounts of US kit being sold to Iran pre 1979 as well.

I hope that given the way things are evolving in that region that history does not repeat itself.


User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3763 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5963 times:

I understand the reasoning behind the deal but I do not like it.

BTW, have the 72 typhoons Saudi Arabia ordered been delivered or has this order been cancelled?

Germany recently also sold 270 (!) Leopard 2 A7 tanks to them. Smart move.


User currently offlineThePointblank From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 1857 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5746 times:

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 15):
I recall large amounts of US kit being sold to Iran pre 1979 as well.

I hope that given the way things are evolving in that region that history does not repeat itself.

The Saudi's are dependent on foreign support on their military hardware. Lots of foreign technical specialists in Saudi Arabia maintaining their military hardware, and if they all left, well, the Saudi's will have a very difficult time keeping their birds even airworthy.


User currently onlineGaryck From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5695 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 16):
BTW, have the 72 typhoons Saudi Arabia ordered been delivered or has this order been cancelled?

Some have been delivered, there are 'kits' ready at BAE Warton which may be assembled in Saudi Arabia.



Keep your Ladders close, but your camera closer
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12964 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5473 times:

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 17):
The Saudi's are dependent on foreign support on their military hardware. Lots of foreign technical specialists in Saudi Arabia maintaining their military hardware, and if they all left, well, the Saudi's will have a very difficult time keeping their birds even airworthy.

And if they turn off the oil spigots, the world economy would collapse.

Isn't it interesting how interlinked all these things are?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinecmb56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5312 times:

Going by the entries so far the Saudis will have at the end of this 226 top of the line fighter / strike aircraft along with some number of tanker aircraft to support them and a pretty good supply of non-defensive ordanance to drop from them. Playing the devil's advocate here why wouldn't Iran consider this to be pretty threatening and the only way to counter this force is with nukes? If Iran suddenly change position and scrapped their nuclear program or made it very open and commercial only would the west allow weapons sales to bring them to parity with the Saudis?

User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2197 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5284 times:

Quoting cmb56 (Reply 20):
Playing the devil's advocate here why wouldn't Iran consider this to be pretty threatening and the only way to counter this force is with nukes? If Iran suddenly change position and scrapped their nuclear program or made it very open and commercial only would the west allow weapons sales to bring them to parity with the Saudis?

Only way the West will play nice with Iran, with it's current leaders, is if we get nowhere with Pakistan, and if Iran stop supporting Hamas and Hesbola. There is more to the Iranian than just nukes.

As for the hardware, maybe it may seem impressive and can support a short tit-for-tat, I don't know if it can sustain a prolong conflict. Ofcourse, any prolong conflict would bring in the U.S., and a larger arsenal would not be nessesary.

Only thing the Saudi needs now would be an upgrade to their maritime patrol. P-8's anyone?



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Another Big F-15 Order To Saudi Arabia
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Military aviation related posts only!
  • Not military related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
F-15 To Saudi Arabia? posted Thu Jul 22 2010 07:32:26 by bikerthai
Largest US Arms Sale Ever, To Saudi Kingdom posted Mon Sep 13 2010 06:04:53 by STT757
Seafire 15 Returns To Flight posted Mon Aug 23 2010 13:20:35 by canoecarrier
Saudi Arabia Orders 3 More A330 Tankers posted Tue Jul 28 2009 13:15:46 by Scbriml
Another Usaf F-15 Goes Down posted Fri Feb 1 2008 23:42:38 by Dahawaiian
Saudi Arabia Buys 2 A330-MRTTs posted Mon Feb 12 2007 14:19:53 by LHStarAlliance
Saudi Arabia Buys 72 Eurofighters posted Fri Aug 18 2006 09:57:20 by 9VSPO
Saudi Arabia AF : A330MRTT Or KC767? posted Sat Jun 3 2006 11:33:02 by FCKC
Another Big Prop Survives posted Wed Feb 25 2004 03:52:59 by Reedyreed
Big RAF Deployment To The Gulf posted Thu Feb 6 2003 19:17:06 by GDB

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format