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Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition  
User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4856 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

This article just came out, as if to belie a point I made in the LAS Program thread.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...cus-on-territorial-defence-366502/

Quote:
"Under the auspices of its Capability Upgrade Plan, the air force could announce several acquisitions in the coming 12 months, a spokesperson said.

The plan calls for between four and six lead-in jet trainer/attack aircraft and six aircraft to replace the Rockwell OV-10 Bronco, plus two maritime patrol aircraft, and one or two others to be dedicated to command and control/intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) tasks.

Manila also plans to request 12 former US Air Force Lockheed Martin F-16C/D Block 25 fighters from Washington, although this is not a formal requirement. Any Philippine F-16 deal would be similar to the USA's granting last year of permission to transfer 24 ex-US Air National Guard F-16C/D Block 15s - categorised as 'excess defence articles' - to Indonesia.

[.....]

For the lead-in jet trainer requirement, potential candidates include the Korea Aerospace Industries T/A-50 and Alenia Aermacchi's M-346. Both companies have made representations to the air force, which also foresees a light attack role for these aircraft.

Manila also hopes to obtain six aircraft for counter-insurgency operations. Possible candidates include the Air Tractor AT-802U, Embraer EMB-314 Super Tucano and Hawker Beechcraft AT-6. Both the maritime patrol and ISR aircraft are likely to be in the twin-turboprop class."



Please take the announcement with a generous helping of salt.....the operative words in the report being "hopes" and "plans". Nonetheless, the PAF would doubtless be ecstatic if these come to pass.

The T/A-50 looks to be the prime contender for the first requirement. The ROKAF's buy of 20 FA-50s could bolster its chances here considerably.....


.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...s-600m-order-for-20-fa-50s-366500/

Another possibility is a package deal for KA-1 Woong Bee and FA-50s.

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Photo © Yunjin Lee - Korea Aero Photo



With a number of its campaigns making slow progress, and the Italian Air Force's order threatened by the economic crisis, the M-346's prospects here seem middling......

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Photo © Roland Bergmann-Spotterteam Graz


However, addition and updates for the remaining S-211s in service might do the trick.

For COIN, the outlook is less bright for the AT-6 after its loss in the US.....while price could work against the tried, proven and highly desired Super Tucano. OTOH, being rugged and cheap are the AT-802U's main draws.

The MP and ISR roles would likely go to King Air variants of those, but could be challenged by East European types like the M-28 Bryza.

The PAF seem to be neglecting inter-island transport, and for that CASA's C212-400 offer a reasonable solution. They would need more surplus C-130s or, if they get very lucky, new CN-235s.

Lastly, I fear the request for 12 surplus Block 25 F-16s may be surrounded with much political posturing, that transitioning pilots would have graduated from the LIFT program long before the Vipers come.

All in all, quite a realistic goal considering the numbers and the absence of outlandish, ego-propping, prestige items as in past announcements. I wouldn't hold my breath, but frankly, I'd be delighted if these see the light of day.


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
77 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25549 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Considering the drive in the Philippines to rearm its armed forces has much to do with perceived Chinese threat over the horizon, one probably simpler (and certainly cheaper) path would be to suggest the US again maintain a presence on the island.
Something like a unit rotating regularly from Guam or other Asian basing could likely provide much of the same effect at a fraction of the cost to the Philippines.

With the roll out of the Pentagon’s long range blueprint today, the Asia-Pacific region plays the central role in US posturing, and the recent basing deal with Australia could serve as a role model for a new US-Philippines agreement.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4856 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Something like a unit rotating regularly from Guam or other Asian basing could likely provide much of the same effect at a fraction of the cost to the Philippines.

With cost-cutting adding pressure for a new round of BRAC at home, this is the avenue being explored going forward. A CNAS paper basically says as much.


As for aircraft, this blog report just came out...but no independent corroboration from other defense media as of yet...

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http://philippineairspace.blogspot.com/2012/06/its-ta-50-for-paf.html

Quote:
"June 20, 2012

Manila - The Philippine Air Force (PAF) will be flying 12 lead-in fighter trainers (LIFT) from South Korea in two years time, says Voltaire Gazmin, Secretary of National Defense (DND) amidst tension in the South China.

The TA-50s (are) expected to be delivered by 2013 valued at half a billion US dollars, funded mostly from Korean grants.

[.....]

It is now confirmed that during the visit, South Korea did sign(ed) an agreement to provide soft loans of up to $500 million to the Philippines. The diplomatic communique was received by (the) Office of the President last week. No further details were immediately known until they were announced yesterday.

The concessional loans would come from the Economic Development Cooperation Fund and disbursed through the Export-Import Bank of Korea from this year until 2013, the two countries said.

The TA-50 is a joint venture program of Korea Aerospace Industrie (KAI) and Lockheed Martin of the United States, with a price tag of USD $25 million a piece. Those offered to the Philippines has a price tag of USD $28 Million."



The delayed announcement could be due to required clearances for the trainers' U.S. content. Also, the higher unit price than the TNI got might be attributable to requested light attack capabilities for the T/A variant, and any IP costs for LM. Other considerations may include bridging assets and initial program work.

Hopefully, no other issues will come up to derail the project.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4856 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

DID has the story now.....

http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_T-50_Cutaway_lg.jpg

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...reas-t-50-spreads-its-wings-04004/

Quote:
"June 20/12: Philippine buy? ABS-CBN news of the Philippines quotes Philippine air force officials as saying they will buy 12 TA-50s, in order to restore the air force’s ability to police Philippine airspace.

[.....]

The TA-50 deal is reportedly worth around 25 billion pesos (about $590 million), with a contract expected by the end of 2012. All 12 fighter jets are expected to be delivered by the end of 2013. If so, the Philippines would join its neighbor Indonesia as a TA-50 customer.



The report also mentions a separate contract for six fixed-wing COIN aircraft.....

Quote:
"A 2nd contract for 6 fixed-wing aircraft is expected to replace the country’s OV-10 Bronco counter-insurgency planes, and designs from the USA (likely the AT-6B), Brazil (Super Tucano), and Korea (likely the KT-1) are expected to compete."

These were all cited at the thread's start.....but an unconfirmed blog item says the Super Tucano was chosen.....

http://community.warplanes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/a29_super_tucano.jpg

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.c...fense-radar-to-be-operational.html

Quote:
"Meanwhile, the Brazilian-made Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano, also named ALX or A-29 has been chosen to replace a fleet of OV-10 Broncos, due to its flexibility to perform a broad range of missions, including light attack, surveillance, air-to-air interception, and counter insurgency(COIN)."


The blog also hinted about a couple of light cargo and special mission platforms without specifying the aircraft, although it showed photos of Alenia's Spartan and ATR 400 in AMI colors.....

Quote:
"Another two light lifts and one special mission aircraft from Italy will also be procured using the same G2G deals.

Okol said the PAF will use the A-29 for close air support and aerial reconnaissance platforms.

'Super Tucano is purposely built for counter-insurgency and light air support missions,' says the spokesman."




Then there's the bit about ISR.....

.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-of-p180-business-aircraft-373101/


From the blog.....

Quote:
"The United States will be funding the construction of the National Coast Watch Center, and share surveillance and intelligence data with the Philippines.

[.....]

Rick Fisher, an Asian security expert at the International Assessment and Strategy Center in Alexandria, said a powerful land-based radar could be used jointly by the Philippines, the United States and other allies to quickly detect Chinese military movements in the region.

[.....]

Additional details of the new air assets were not disclosed."



I'm guessing a brace of these could complement that Coast Watch system very well.....

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...013/MC-12-Liberty-Planes-Eyed-Cuts

Quote:
"Deputy Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said the Air Force does not plan to keep all 42 of its MC-12 aircraft.

The twin-propeller Hawker Beechcraft King Air 350s are fitted with surveillance sensors and have an aircrew of four: two pilots, a sensor operator and a signals intelligence specialist.

[.....]

'As we draw down, there will obviously be a decreased requirement for these platforms, but I do not believe it will ever actually disappear,' an Air Force official said. 'We will flow them to other parts of the globe to continue our fight against all forms of terrorism'.”



What remains is the question of the country's long-term air and sea defense. It is hoped the belligerence around the country's EEZ would diminish that no more than an upgrade to the F/A-50 would be necessary.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinewvsuperhornet From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 517 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

The T-50's if they can buy them in actual numbers would be a good boost to their defense's those things are suppose to be like an F-5 on steriods anyway.

User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4856 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting wvsuperhornet (Reply 4):
The T-50's if they can buy them in actual numbers would be a good boost to their defense's those things are suppose to be like an F-5 on steriods anyway.

With the same GE F404 engine, the TA-50 is actually like a Gripen - minus the range of qualified weapons and systems. However, I don't think the PAF is looking to buy more of those than necessary to fulfill their advance jet training and air policing functions. For long term defense, they need something more substantial.

The Gripen offers reasonable capability in a simple, affordable package...available new or used, by sale or lease, and somewhat future proof via the NG. Could be a bargain if one chooses surplus A and B models.

The Mirage 2000-9 is in much the same category but only available from a single source or through costly upgrades of used airframes.

The F-16 still presents the best balance of affordability (in acquisition and operation) and capabilities...but requires utmost delicacy for an open commitment to supply.

There were rumors of an F/A-18 offer...way above the requirement and a bit short-ranged - will be very expensive...or much abused if second hand...and will also need the delicate balancing act.

Which brings us to the dark horse. Given that the PAF had also been shopping in Europe (particularly the UK and Italy) perhaps they'd asked about the Tranche 1 Typhoons? Italy offered theirs to Romania while the RAF samples were supposed to be retired but updated instead.....

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...w-fighters-come-from-israel-01499/

Quote:
"May 11/10: The Eurofighter consortium and member firm Alenia Aeronautica chime in with an offer of their own: 24 used Italian Tranche 1 Eurofighters, plus up to 5,000 skilled jobs created by 100% industrial offsets and local technology transfer. The price, including logistics support and training, would be EUR 1 billion (about $1.3 billion), matching the price tag for used F-16s. Deliveries would take place between 2011-2012.

Italian Tranche 1 Eurofighters differ sharply from the other competitors in one crucial respect. Barring additional upgrades and equipment, they lack precision attack capabilities."



http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...f-upgrades-tranche-1-typhoons.html

Quote:
(Source: BAE Systems; issued June 21, 2012)

"The Royal Air Force Tranche 1 fleet are to be upgraded following the recent delivery of the Drop 2 upgrade package.

Following the closure of the Tranche 1 Main Development Contract between NETMA and Eurofighter, the UK established a Capability Sustainment Team within BAE Systems. This team was initially utilised to develop an upgrade called Tranche 1 Drop1 that subsequently saw active service as part of the Typhoon Fleet deployed in support of Operation ELLAMY in Libya.
"


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Photo © Antonio Carrasquilla - Aerospray



If the PAF could pay $590M for 12 LIFT aircraft, maybe they could afford 18-24 used, cheap, T1 AMI Typhoons, or RAF types less the Drop 2 - with offsets. Relatively young fleet with good A2A and decent A2S credentials. A country in the middle of the sea doesn't need a bomb truck. Problem is what these twin-engined fighters would do to the Air Force's annual budget!



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4856 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

A quick rejoinder to defuse an embarrassing situation.....

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Quote:
"MANILA, Philippines — The Philippines on July 3 said the deployment of U.S. spy planes, suggested by President Benigno Aquino, was just one option to monitor the country’s territory, as China appealed for stability in the region.

'If they happen at all, they are surveillance flights, they are not meant to be provocative. There’s no offensive capability here,' said Ricky Carandang, the president’s spokesman.

China’s foreign ministry, in an embassy statement quoting spokesman Liu Weimin, called on all parties to maintain 'peace and stability' in the South China Sea.

'We have noticed the reports,' the spokesman said. 'It is the hope of the Chinese side that peace and stability can be maintained ... and parties concerned do things conducive to regional peace and stability'."



The DFA should give the boss a crash course on diplomatic double-talk as so glibly practised by the other side above.    Something about lips and ships...    .....

Would be weirder if Taipei offered some of the FAMBs it's retiring to the PN.   

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...ssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s


I was expecting this only.....

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Photo © Chris Heaton



Need to look at acquiring their own equipment to avoid awkward situations like that.....

.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...time-surveillance-aircraft-372752/

.
http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getasset.aspx?itemid=24002


As an aside, a royal is in town to visit a few "obras pias".



Lastly, something for our US friends.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67XrqXXTceM

[Edited 2012-07-03 14:05:52]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

China is making new enemies in the south china sea, even Vietnam and Us are looking towards cooperation.. China acting like a bully will only fuel this further. Never trust the chicoms!

User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3868 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Are there any Peashooters left?

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/746/pics/107_1.jpg



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4856 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 7):
China is making new enemies in the south china sea, even Vietnam and Us are looking towards cooperation.. China acting like a bully will only fuel this further.

The mighty dragon is no longer content frolicking just in Hannalee.....and wants more toys and other fancy stuff. Neither is he all Puff... but roars that nobles bow their heads and ships lower their flags... in words and deeds. Unlikely it will just sadly slip back into its cave. (Apologies to PP&M).

Thus explaining why the Gripen which otherwise would be good enough {and still be very competitive pricewise (specially if it comes tied to a favorable financing deal) with an as yet untried armed trainer being priced at $28M each for 12 frames, with no clear indication of the weapons, systems and sensors that would be included} might be overmatched. Come to think of it, both the Gripen and TA-50 could qualify for FMS due to their engines and extensive US content.

Guess another way of looking at it is for the price of three or so LIFT planes, one OPV could be procured perhaps with more effective, if not immediate impact?.....

http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP_OPV_TT_Scarborough_Trials_BAE_lg.png

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...ing-BAEs-90m-Patrol-Vessels-07254/

How aptly named this vessel is.....the former Vosper Thorneycroft also presented this model to the PN prior to the Asian financial crisis in the mid-nineties.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 8):
Are there any Peashooters left?

There might still be a couple or so surviving Tora-Tora planes of EDSA fame.  

Hopefully, they will not "forget" that the much higher price of the "armed" LIFT variant should include the actual weapons and the means to deploy those.    Or else, they may end up mounting slingshots on their jets.

Thanks to the "soft" loan, it's already more than twice as expensive than the plain vanilla M-346 trainer for the IASF (30 for $1B - offset for Israeli ISR platforms duly noted).         



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4561 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Well, that TA50 certainly looks great.


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4856 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 32767 times:

This looks better.....  http://blogs.defensenews.com/farnborough/files/2012/07/gripen.saab_.jpg.
http://blogs.defensenews.com/farnbor...ugh/files/2012/07/gripen.saab_.jpg


The Raven ES-05 AESA radar will go a long way towards leveling the playing field a bit against potential adversaries.

.
http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getasset.aspx?itemid=46622



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineSAS A340 From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 781 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 11):
This looks better.....

Way way way better  



It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3868 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

How about more of these? I'm sure there's a few stored at Davis-Monthan.




Anyway, PAF have excellent pilots. We don't need no stinking smart bombs!

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/166057/...-smart-pilots-yes-says-paf-general

...or the pilots were from Creech.   



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4856 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 13):
How about more of these?

Afraid even barnacles would refuse clinging to that if you sank it to make an artificial reef.  .

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 13):
I'm sure there's a few stored at Davis-Monthan.

Could you suggest something less ancient?    Like these.....

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Although I think they had blown up most of the flyable samples as drones.   .


And since you've gone this way already, why not go all out and request this?   

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Photo © Mike Freer - Touchdown-aviation




"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3868 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 14):
Afraid even barnacles would refuse clinging to that if you sank it to make an artificial reef.

Too bad, the Philippines need new reefs with all the dynamite fishing going on.  

I don't know why the PAF acquired the F-8s unless someone got rich over it.

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 14):
why not go all out and request this?

No, too sophisticated. PAF pilots like to eyeball the target.  



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4856 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 15):
No, too sophisticated. PAF pilots like to eyeball the target.

Here's something simpler   .....

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Photo © Brian Lockett


Build new airframes, uprate the engine...install the systems, avionics, radars and pods still in good condition which would be removed from the planned update of USAF F-16s (   not giving KAI any sly idea), test and qualify the weapons suite..... and voila..... an overachieving light fighter for much less dollars..... with handling characteristics that might be familiar to more senior PAF pilots.   

Although I think pursuing the single-seat, F414 powered F/A-50 with Northrop's SABR and new mission computer could be much less troublesome.   


Seriously, the Mirage 2000-9s are a viable option if the UK manages to sell Typhoons (or France, Rafales) to the UAE..... provided that the price is right.   

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Question is service support if Dassault were not involved.   

[Edited 2012-07-15 14:41:05]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4856 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 15):
Too bad, the Philippines need new reefs with all the dynamite fishing going on.

Not to worry.....the PN has plenty of candidates for those  .


Quoting Confuscius (Reply 15):
I don't know why the PAF acquired the F-8s unless someone got rich over it.

Curious that the rumor about the selection of the TA-50 is now "tempered" with this comment from KAI's VP for international marketing.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ries-t-50-rides-high-in-uk-374093/

Quote:
"Sang declined to comment on persistent speculation in the Philippine press that Manila will acquire 12 T-50s.

'We are grateful for Manila's interest and will hope to meet any requests they may have,' says Sang."



.....ever since news of Israel's $1B deal for 30 M-346s became official.....

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http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...1bn-m-346-acquisition-deal-374546/


Also, the "choice" of Embraer's Super Tucano to replace the remaining OV-10Bs is unceremoniously replaced by reports that the PAF is now looking to acquire new attack helicopters by the end of this year.....

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...ssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s

Quote:
"MANILA — The Philippines will acquire 10 attack helicopters starting next year in a bid to boost the capabilities of the poorly equipped military, an air force spokesman said July 18.

Italy, Britain, France, Russia and South Africa are all being eyed to supply the helicopters, Lt. Col. Miguel Okol said, although he declined to specify which models were being considered.

The brand new machines will upgrade the fleet of U.S.-made MG-520 light attack helicopters that the air force has been using since the 1990s.

'What we are going to get are armed attack helicopters ... that can carry more payload than the MG-520,' Okol told AFP.

He declined to specify the cost of the acquisition but said the government had already allocated the required funds.

The new aircraft will be used for 'internal security operations, border security and support operations,' he said."



It's notable that they are more careful now in indicating which existing assets these helos will replace, where those would be sourced, and how much those might cost.....as compared to this report.....

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx...828655&publicationSubCategoryId=63

.....which generated much local speculation about the qualities of the AW129 Mangusta.....

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..... and the Yak-130's potential.....   .

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...Light-Attack-Jets-07229/#more-7229

Quote:
"July 17/12: Irkut arming Yak-130s. the Russian military may not be interested in developing a Yak-131 light attack version, but Irkut thinks there’s a market for the existing Yak-130, and is working to give it a full strike fighter’s array. At present, the Yak-130’s 3,000 kg/ 6,600 pounds of payload can includes AA-11/R-73 short range air-to-air missiles for defense, and KAB-500 laser-guided bombs, in addition to unguided bombs, rockets and 23mm gun pods."


http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/farn12/emptys/95648/yak-130-farnborough-2012.jpg.
http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace...95648/yak-130-farnborough-2012.jpg


Does Agusta really have ten brand-new AW-129s just lying about, waiting to be sold? And while at it, there's still the matter of three, fixed-wing medium airlifters and unspecified number of light transports to be sorted out. Truly, it's more fun!  



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3868 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 17):
Not to worry.....the PN has plenty of candidates for those

Cool, more places for the Chinese Navy to run aground.  Wink
Quoting Devilfish (Reply 17):
The Philippines will acquire 10 attack helicopters starting next year in a bid to boost the capabilities of the poorly equipped military

Wouln't it be cheaper to acquire used helicopters? There's quite a few AH-1s somewhere in the desert of Arizona.

[Edited 2012-07-20 21:56:53]


Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Apaches would be good for surveillance of those islands, maybe they lack the range? Could the be fitted with anti ship missiles?

How about A10s? Simple durable planes with a deadly bite, that cannon could open a ship like a sardine can..


User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4856 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 18):
Wouln't it be cheaper to acquire used helicopters? There's quite a few AH-1s somewhere in the desert of Arizona.

The second sentence in the linked PhilStar article in #17 mentioned 21 Hueys. IIRC, refurbished AH-1 Cobras were offered about two years ago but the costs were almost like for new ones, that even the USMC opted for brand-new airframes instead.


Quoting sweair (Reply 19):
Apaches would be good for surveillance of those islands, maybe they lack the range? Could the be fitted with anti ship missiles?

AH-64s are way too expensive for the PAF's budget. There's news that the PN is looking to acquire two Maestrale class frigates the MM is about to retire for P11.7B.....

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/462...-2-missile-warships-from-italy-dnd


http://adroth.ph/afpmodern/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/051130-N-7217H-004.jpg
http://adroth.ph/afpmodern/wp-conten...ads/2012/02/051130-N-7217H-004.jpg

Perhaps they would operate an A129 off of both. But it's still talk up till now.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/images/maestrale.jpg
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../world/europe/images/maestrale.jpg

Quoting sweair (Reply 19):
How about A10s? Simple durable planes with a deadly bite, that cannon could open a ship like a sardine can..

And the ship's S2A and CIWS could also pick out the Hogs like in a turkey shoot.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3868 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 20):
IIRC, refurbished AH-1 Cobras were offered about two years ago but the costs were almost like for new ones, that even the USMC opted for brand-new airframes instead.

It depends who is paying, the Philippine or the U.S. government, FMS or MAP?  



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4856 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 21):
It depends who is paying, the Philippine or the U.S. government, FMS or MAP?

At the end of the day, it's still the Philippine government who would pick up the tab.


Which brings us back to the TA-50. Interesting that DID now reports the country has confirmed its choice.....

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...spreads-its-wings-04004/#contracts

.....while saying that it wanted the first two airframes immediately to start pilot training...but that it had no budget for the acquisition. DID pulled the long report after briefly displaying it in their online general readers section.


All these after reports indicated that no bidders came forward for KAI's major share offering.....

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...find-buyer-for-aerospace-firm.html

Quote:
"The sale of Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) is set for takeoff, but so far it has struggled to find a party interested enough to even fill out a bidding application.

On Friday, KAI’s stock value fell 2.24 percent to close at 26,200 won ($23). In recent trades, the stock price has fallen as the market expects the bid to fail."



http://articles.economictimes.indiat...take-sale-kai-sale-of-fighter-jets


These raise a question about KAI's ability to support the lead-in fighter trainers after a contract is signed, and also in light of their international marketing VP's half-hearted comment in #17 above.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4856 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Update:

Alas, the stake sale didn't go forward.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...pace-industries-stake-sale-375980/


In the meantime, the two maritime helos still seem to be a long way away.....


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Shaun Schofield


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andras Kisgergely
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Trevor Thornton



.....while the A129s may be built by TAI.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4856 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Agusta/PZL-Swidnik must be lurking here and came out with this timely press release.   

Even farther out but definitely cheaper than the A159 is this naval helicopter from their affiliate   .

.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...copter-gets-naval-makeover-376152/

Quote:
"AgustaWestland company PZL-Swidnik has started developing a new multirole naval variant of its Gluszec helicopter, with the design based on its armed W-3PL already flown by the Polish land forces and the navy's W-3RM Anakonda maritime search and rescue platform.

.

Mission equipment planned for the aircraft includes a search radar, dipping sonar, sonobuoys, forward-looking infrared sensor, rescue hoist and searchlight. To enable embarked operations, it would also feature an all-new landing gear and an emergency flotation system, plus new main rotor blades with a blade-fold system.

.

To be capable of performing anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare tasks, plus search and rescue missions, and transport, the helicopter would be armed with torpedoes, air-to-surface missiles and machine guns."



The Anakonda looks heavy but will have commonality with the PAF's recently acquired Sokols. It will be less sophisticated than other western counterparts...so in-service performance of their brethren in the air force needs to be thoroughly validated first.

The AFP meanwhile ought to get cracking on preparation and training for shipboard helo ops if they want to get the most out of these contemplated future assets.   



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
25 Post contains links Devilfish : Update: This Inquirer news item might indicate the direction of the security situation in the country..... http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/284814/sbma-to
26 Post contains links Devilfish : A DID paid subscription update says the LIFT requirement will now be competitively bid..... http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...reas-t-50-spreads-i
27 Post contains links and images Devilfish : More on the above from Flightglobal..... http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...modernisation-of-air-force-378343/ Quote: "The highest profile acquisi
28 Post contains links and images Devilfish : So, another trainer may join the fray.....the more the merrier I say . View Large View MediumPhoto © Adam Duffield.....wonder if a simulator would be
29 Post contains links and images mandala499 : Devilfish, did Cebu Pacific plan to get it's own little air force consisting of L-15s? I mean look closely: View Large View MediumPhoto © Weimeng
30 Post contains links and images Devilfish : LOL...maybe they wanted it to do escort duties. In fairness though, I think 5J had that logo a long time before Hongdu put it on their 'mini Falcon'.
31 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Nice plane...if they could get it..... . View Large View MediumPhoto © T.Laurent .....in light of this...and their products' generally acknowledged h
32 Post contains images mandala499 : I just find it hilarious that AVIC would put that rooster on the L-15, and then the photo appears on this thread! Perhaps, Phil govt can say, "Sure,
33 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Better yet..."We might consider your wares if you'd leave us alone in peace" . Or it could very well be like the terminated North Rail and broadband
34 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Following the Canadian PM's visit, something like this for Raytheon's surveillance suite seems possible as medium range MP candidate..... http://i1119
35 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Had to do a double take when I read the caption before realizing that the livery was different..... . It could give the CN-235MP a run for its money..
36 Post contains links and images Devilfish : The conduit which could facilitate #34..... http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/media.asp?ca...ry=1&featureId=6&pageId=26&id=5160 Quote: "'Canada and
37 Post contains links Devilfish : Something to chew on...together with the bridging "assets"..... http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ilot-killed-in-t-50b-crash-379057/
38 Post contains links and images Devilfish : The vital enabling act is signed into law..... http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/322415/...extension-of-modernization-program Quote: "MANILA, Philippines
39 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Another deal in the AFP Modernization Program likely to push through..... http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE Qu
40 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Things have been very quiet on the medium transport front...maybe the PAF is finding it hard to reconcile their desire for brand new Spartans with the
41 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Elsewhere...related to the search for a true, multi-role naval helo in #24 in spite of #39... is this announcement for the first flight of the first R
42 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Seems the PLAN doesn't have a monopoly on that distinction anymore..... . http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE G
43 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Anyone who can translate the gist of this better, please? Seems just a rehash of older articles..... http://www.nuovasocieta.it/inchieste...nno-shoppi
44 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Unfortunately, it turns out the subjects of #40 and #42 will meet ignominious ends..... http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...ns-undermine-afghan-air
45 Post contains links Devilfish : Seems the LIFT deal is nearing realization..... http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-deal-for-south-korea-fighter-jets
46 Post contains links and images Devilfish : The question now is the price difference..... http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE Quote: "Defense department spo
47 Post contains links and images Devilfish : http://www.flightglobal.com/Assets/GetAsset.aspx?ItemID=49441 Something to take into account with potential deals..... http://www.flightglobal.com/new
48 Post contains links and images Devilfish : A well-needed pause to reflect on the sobering realities of an operational jet fighter force..... http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...-%E2%80%98in-
49 SAS A340 : Then you have to take the consequences of that decision... Probably ended up with 0 trained pilots with 0 ours of flight time...
50 Confuscius : What type of aircraft can the PAF provide the Sultanate of Sulu in their quest to retake Sabah from Malaysia?
51 Devilfish : None. Apart from the fact that the PAF has no dependable aircraft even for the country's defense...I don't think the government is inclined to assert
52 Confuscius : When will the FA-50s arrive? I know the procurement process can be cumbersome in the Philippines. IIRC, the government had problems accepting used pas
53 Post contains links and images Devilfish : The contract is not even signed yet..... http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/04...-deal-purchase-korean-fighter-jets Or scrounge around the F-5 boneyar
54 Post contains images Confuscius : Some of the hitches that authorities saw in the transaction can be ironed out by May. “It’s in the final stages of crafting, in preparation for th
55 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Have to get those and other urgent AFP needs like the medium lift transports squared away first..... http://philippineairspace.blogspot.c...anding-fo
56 Post contains images Confuscius : For a little less... Callsign: PNoy One (President); Trapo Two (Vice-President); Plunderer (former presidents GMA and Erap).
57 Post contains links and images Devilfish : You didn't have to dig that from its watery grave. Let it rest in peace! ... Actually, I'm partial to this..... http://acimg.avbuyer.com/images/aircra
58 Post contains images Confuscius : Almost any airplane will suffice as long as it's not a chartered Piper Seneca. Travel on this before the election.
59 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Even a "chartered Piper Seneca" shouldn't be doing that.. ..which led to calls for fleet renewal, and questions about airworthiness & maintenance
60 Post contains images Confuscius : Why not acquire former PAL Short 360s for use within the islands. IIRC, after the state funeral in Manila, the late DILG secretary's remains accompan
61 Post contains links and images Devilfish : May be difficult...unless one or two were not returned..... But it could be a good candidate for the PAF's light airlift requirement if Short still m
62 Post contains links and images Devilfish : http://adroth.ph/afpmodern/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/fa50.jpg Looks serious in this CGI construct..... http://www.aviationnews.eu/blog/wp-c...oads/2
63 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Guess all the excitement in the WPS is pushing the frigate acquisition in #20..... http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...uy-2-Maestrale-Frigates-From
64 Post contains links Confuscius : 21 more UH-1 for the Philippine Air Force. There are only 16 mission-capable UH-1 helicopters in its inventory. http://www.philstar.com/headlines/20..
65 Post contains links and images Devilfish : At least with the middleman, you're relatively confident that the "commission" is all he's eager about ! They're now preparing where to transfer some
66 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Closer to home, KAI has come up with the stealthy KFX-E concept..... http://www.aviationweek.com/media/im...size/Defense/Fighters/KF-X-KAI.jpg A perfe
67 Post contains links and images Devilfish : http://kookbang.dema.mil.kr/newspape...thumb1/YA_NP_20130819_00782507.jpg Now that the RoKAF is about to put the FA-50 into service, one wonders if th
68 Post contains links and images Devilfish : There were rumors of two TNI T-50i transiting CRK on delivery flight to Indonesia but no photos made the news..... http://www.koreaaero.com/pr_center/
69 bennett123 : I do wonder, how much of the Defence budget is absorbed in the evaluation process.
70 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Very much less than stalled decades-long acquisitions elsewhere, I would guess. Especially considering the conclusion of negotiations for KAI's FA-50
71 Post contains links and images Devilfish : http://www.wallpaperpin.com/webdisk/philippine-eagle-wallpaper.jpg Kudos to the DND BAC! ... ... And now, the perfect mascot for the Feagle..... . ht
72 Post contains links and images Confuscius : How about refurbishing some old airplanes at NAIA?
73 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Are new spare parts available?...refurbishment might cost more than it's worth. It may even turn out to be more expensive than buying brand-new Spart
74 Post contains links and images Devilfish : The inevitable "grumbling" after the fact..... http://business.inquirer.net/165227/...itary-planes-deal-won-by-spaniards Quote: "In a letter to the DN
75 Confuscius : Who gets to pocket ₱1,000,000? The kevlar helmet lady is in jail right now. Looks like a Philippine version of the USAF tanker wars.
76 Post contains images Devilfish : ~$22,222 is too measly to be anything but "administrative" costs... ... More like intramural "infighting"... .
77 Post contains links and images Devilfish : The long awaited contract for the acquisition of KAI's FA-50s is finally signed, two years and two months after this thread's start..... http://www.fl
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