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Rafale Lowest Bidder In Indian Mmrca Competition  
User currently offlinejouy31 From France, joined May 2003, 447 posts, RR: 10
Posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13424 times:

According to multiple sources, Dassault's Rafale has emerged as the lowest bidder, and therefore probable winner in India's MMRCA competition for 126 and possibly an additional 80 combat aircraft. Kudos to Rafale !


http://www.indianexpress.com/news/lo...india-fighter-jets-sources/906120/

[Edited 2012-01-31 04:13:59]

70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineflagon From France, joined May 2007, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 13404 times:

You need to be very carefull
past experiences have shown us the amount of rubish that were reported in the news from India.
I would rather wait until this information is confirmed before trololol.
Personnally I won't believe any of this until I see pictures of Rafales with Indian Markings in (hopefully) a few years time....



Stephane
User currently offlinejouy31 From France, joined May 2003, 447 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 13329 times:

Well, the information is being taken up by Associated Press and Bloomberg , and Dassault shares on the Paris stock exchange have risen by 21%, so I believe this has far more substance than previous rumours. So I guess I will start celebrating now, although it is just the L1 bidder designation.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...n-india-combat-jet-contest-2-.html


Comment by French External Commerce Minister Pierre Lellouche (in French)

http://www.romandie.com/news/n/_Inde..._reste_a_finaliser310120121401.asp

[Edited 2012-01-31 05:06:43]

User currently offlineflagon From France, joined May 2007, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 13298 times:

Bloody hell
that's the light at the end of the tunnel

I think it s time for celebration your right



Stephane
User currently offlineindia1 From India, joined Aug 2011, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 13274 times:
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Quoting flagon (Reply 1):
You need to be very carefull
past experiences have shown us the amount of rubish that were reported in the news from India.
I would rather wait until this information is confirmed before trololol.

Would you believe the BBC?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-16809532

The Times of India?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...r-Typhoon/articleshow/11700801.cms

If you mean, there's many a slip between cup & lip, then, yes, I know what you mean - long way to go yet, but the "results" have been announced.


User currently offlineflagon From France, joined May 2007, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 13260 times:

You don't need to give any more evidence I think that looks pretty serious,
unfortunately I cannot access these internet sites from work.
Any chance you could post some extracts of interest? As I cannot wait until I go home....



Stephane
User currently offlineindia1 From India, joined Aug 2011, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 13256 times:
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@ Flagon - for you, my friend, from BBC's website... voila!

French Rafale jet beats Eurofighter in $10bn India deal

Dassault will now enter exclusive talks to finalise the deal
Continue reading the main story
Related Stories

Japan chooses US F-35 fighter jet
French firm Dassault has emerged as the lowest bidder in a $10bn contract to supply India with fighter jets.

Dassault Aviation will now enter final negotiations before any deal is signed for supplying India with 126 Rafale aircraft.

Correspondents say this is one of the world's biggest defence deals and is a major setback for rival bidder, the Eurofighter Typhoon.

Eurofighter lost out in December on an $8bn deal to supply jets to Japan.

Officials at the British High Commission in Delhi said they were disappointed with the decision and would now study the details.

A statement read: "It was expressly said this was about the cost of the contract, not a reflection on the health of bilateral relations between India and the countries."

The officials said they "genuinely believed the [Eurofighter] Typhoon offered the best capability now and in the future".

They also said it was "not beyond imagination" that India might decide the Rafale was not the right option as it continued the process.

Four other bidders had dropped out in the lengthy selection process.


User currently offlinesebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 13237 times:

Very nice if true.

I wonder if the competitor will counterattack ...


User currently onlinewolbo From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 482 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13217 times:

Congrats to the Rafale team. I expected the Typhoon to win the contest so I'm a bit surprised. For the Rafale it is a crucial export lifeline which will also increase their chances in other contests like Brazil.

From a European perspective I believe it is financially no longer sustainable to develop two competing fighters (or even three if you add the Gripen). The cost are too high if you have a two- or three-way split of the revenues. If a 6th generation fighter is ever developed in Europe surely it needs to be a combined effort.


User currently offlinejouy31 From France, joined May 2003, 447 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13112 times:

@flagon

Quote:
(Reuters) - French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Tuesday said that he welcomed a decision by India's government to enter into "exclusive negotiations" with France's Dassault for the purchase of 126 Rafale jet fighter planes.

In a statement, Sarkozy said talks over the contract would begin shortly, adding that the deal would include significant transfers of technology guaranteed by the French state.

Dassault Aviation (AVMD.PA) confirmed earlier that its fighter plane had been selected by the Indian air force.

(Reporting By Tim Hepher, Writing by Alexandria Sage; Editing by Jon Loades-Carter)


User currently offlineflagon From France, joined May 2007, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13060 times:

@jouy31
@india1

thanks chaps
much appreciated

this news makes my day

It will be interesting to see how Eurofighter counter attack if they do....



Stephane
User currently offlineautothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1585 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13001 times:

Quoting wolbo (Reply 8):
Congrats to the Rafale team. I expected the Typhoon to win the contest so I'm a bit surprised.

In times of world economic crisis at the end what counts is the price, and the Rafale is cheaper then the Typhoon. That's why Switzerland choosed the Gripen over Rafale and Typhoon. It was the cheapest offer.



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently onlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 633 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12997 times:

Quoting wolbo (Reply 8):
From a European perspective I believe it is financially no longer sustainable to develop two competing fighters (or even three if you add the Gripen). The cost are too high if you have a two- or three-way split of the revenues.

you can also include all Typhoon FAL (4 FAL and each can compete against others)...


User currently offlineShmertspionem From India, joined Aug 2006, 453 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12962 times:

Yes and i've been saying thing for the last one year or so in this forum. The Hindi newspapers have been predicting this for the last 2 1/2 years since their Italian spoke to our Italian and fixed up their "retirement pension"

This is a disgrace!!! rotten plane rotten decision. But not surprising since this has been the most rotten and corrupt government in our history.

We've just initiated an affidavit under the Right to Information act about the newspaper reports that the rafale was the first plane that failed its Hot and High tests in Leh and was the first plane to be kicked out of the competition but their Italian's husband apparently called u our Italian's puppet and had it reinstated.

This deal wont stand. Now that the Supreme Court has basically opened the doors in today's judgement for the Italian to be prosecuted. This decisions will in all probability be challenged.



Vi veri universum vivus vici
User currently offlinea380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1097 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12887 times:

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 13):
their Italian's husband apparently called u our Italian's puppet and had it reinstated.

What do the Italians have to do with this? I don't get it.


User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4771 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12884 times:

A magnificent comeback after disappointing outcomes in previous biddings!   

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...tion-for-indian-mmrca-deal-367594/

Quote:
"Exclusive negotiations for a Rafale purchase will now take place, with Reuters having quoted Indian Defence Minister A K Antony as saying a deal will not be concluded before the start of the next financial year in April.

'Dassault Aviation and its partners reiterate their commitment to meet the operational requirements of the Indian air force,' the French company said, adding that it was 'honoured and grateful' to have gained selection."



Pleased to have picked the winner in the survey for the two finalists. Mayhaps Dassault's strategy was not to go all out in the smaller competitions but to focus on the biggest prize? Now, there'd be no excuse for failing in the negotiations. After all, they had a nice cushion for the Mirage upgrades.

Maybe this is the reason they could lower their offer to Switzerland? Similar expectations can now be foreseen in the unfinished tenders in Brazil and the UAE.


Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 13):
This deal wont stand. Now that the Supreme Court has basically opened the doors in today's judgement for the Italian to be prosecuted. This decisions will in all probability be challenged.

Perhaps it's about time for the challenger to change their choice of "lobbyist"?  



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineindia1 From India, joined Aug 2011, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12868 times:
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Quoting a380900 (Reply 14):
What do the Italians have to do with this? I don't get it.

Our Italian = Madame Sonia, their Italian = Madame Carla


User currently offlinea380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1097 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 12833 times:

Quoting india1 (Reply 16):
Our Italian = Madame Sonia, their Italian = Madame Carla

I had no clue. I'm all willing to recognize corruption when it's there but I must say the Italian connection seems remote here. I don't know about your Italian but our Italian is not much into arms deals. Anyway... Stranger things have happened. It does not bring much to Italy if the country is at the center of this conspiracy.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31660 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 12787 times:

I guess the IAF chose the best considering the IAF needs & costs....

Any idea when the deliveries would commence.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1851 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12672 times:

I silently kept my fingers crossed for Rafale and I am very happy to see it win this competition. Kudos to the Dassault team for winning this one.


All Hail Mighty Triple Seven, The MURDERER of the so-called "Queen"!!!!
User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4771 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12284 times:

Quoting a380900 (Reply 17):
I'm all willing to recognize corruption when it's there but I must say the Italian connection seems remote here. I don't know about your Italian but our Italian is not much into arms deals. Anyway... Stranger things have happened.

I think they all have graciously (albeit grudgingly) accepted the result as befits honorable men.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...o-indias-typhoon-rejection-367621/

Quote:
"EADS company Cassidian has voiced its disappointment after the Eurofighter Typhoon's defeat in India's medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) competition, but appears to have accepted New Delhi's choice of Dassault's Rafale.

'India has taken the decision to select our competitor, although this is not yet a contract signature and the negotiations are still ahead,' Cassidian said. 'We are disappointed. However, we respect the decision of the Indian Ministry of Defence,' it added.

[.....]

'Based on the Indian government feedback we will now carefully analyse and examine this situation, together with our European partner companies and their respective companies,' said Cassidian."



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinevishaljo From India, joined Aug 2006, 462 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12196 times:

My plane won   
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vishal Jolapara - Indian Aviation Photographers



My photos of Rafales in India http://vishal.jolapara.in/2011/05/13/dassault-rafale/


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12134 times:

Quoting india1 (Reply 4):
The Times of India?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...1.cms

What is meant by produced below? Is it mostly assembly or a good portion of parts will be made by HAL?

So can we expect ATR to consider jointly developing 90 seater turboprop with India?

From the linked article above:
According to the Request for Proposal (RFP), the winner of the contract will have to supply 18 of the 126 aircraft to the IAF in 36 months from its facilities and the remaining would be produced at HAL facilities in Bangalore.


User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4895 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12104 times:

WOW! It actually happened as promised by the end of January. The Indian blogosphere has been snarkily enquiring about how many days hath January...

The IAF must be thrilled that this is actually happening, given that its pilots have been leaning towards Raffy a.k.a 'Katrina'.

Best of all, kudos to the Indian Government for enforcing a transparent and open process for the bid.


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12035 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 23):
Best of all, kudos to the Indian Government for enforcing a transparent and open process for the bid.

From what I read, the defence minister A.K Anthony has a reputation for being "clean" and is probably responsible for ensuring a transparent and open bidding process.


25 BarfBag : Good to see the Rafale win! It was my choice among the final four, and I'm glad it got through. The deal was as much a political as a military choice.
26 comorin : Indian bloggers are suggesting the first squadron may arrive by the end of this year. It is to be noted that the arms for this fighter will likely be
27 TaromA380 : Any chance now for India chosing Rafale-M for their carriers ?
28 flagon : I would have thought there is strong arguments to say that the Rafale is in strong position for the Indian Navy. 1) The indian industrial net for the
29 flagon : I came across the following comment... Aviation expert Howard Wheeldon, of BGC Partners, said: "This is not the end of the road by any stretch of the
30 TaromA380 : The Indian Navy competition (Rafale vs. Eurofighter vs. others) would be far easier for the Rafale : - against the naval Typhoon, a very doubtful pape
31 jouy31 : Rafale M and the Super Hornet would be great choices for Indian carriers, PROVIDED India opts for catapult-enabled carriers.
32 Post contains links BarfBag : The MiG-29K and Naval LCA are the primary platforms for the INS Vikramaditya (ex-Gorshkov) and the INS Vikrant (under construction at Cochin Shipyard)
33 Max Q : The Rafale just has to be the best looking fighter currently made. Those curves are sensational !
34 powerslide : Unfortunately for the Euro-canards, real-world conflicts aren't decide by airshow performances.
35 flagon : I take you point onboard, but the indian decision to buy 126 jets was not just based on airshow performance, you may have noticed there was a bit mor
36 Max Q : Plenty of fighters look great at airshows. It does not take away from their real world capability.
37 flagon : A few extracts from the british press: "DAVID Cameron has expressed "disappointment" that a French firm had beaten BAE Systems to become preferred bid
38 francoflier : Rafale is actually the only 'Euro-canard' to have proven its worth in combat missions, having been extensively deployed in Afghanistan and Libya. The
39 Post contains links and images imiakhtar : I think the writing was on the wall that Dassault would win when BAE announced the job losses at EF manufacturing sites late last year. You're wrong.
40 Post contains links cosmofly : Interesting video discussion of Red Flag 2008 with something about Indian Su30MKI and French Rafale. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ibgAQ7lv0w&fe
41 flagon : Not in Afghanistan, but I agree with you that the Eurofighter has now made its first steps in real war envirnment. Besides, some Gripens were also em
42 francoflier : I'm aware of the operational involvement of the Eurofighter in Libya, but those truly were first steps into a combat environment and its actions were
43 BarfBag : The British press are a bunch of useless wankers, but the indignant drivel is fun to read. The bidding process was straightforward - Rafale and Typhoo
44 bikerthai : Any words on whether final assembly line will be in France or in India? bt
45 francoflier : First 18 frames built in France and delivered key in hand, the rest is to be built in India by HAL.
46 bikerthai : Will it be in their Bangalore facility or have that been determined yet? BTW, are there any good French restaurant in Bangalore? bt
47 Post contains links GolfOscarDelta : I've heard rumours that when the French gave us the mirage before they disabled its ability to launch missiles when supersonic (don't know how true it
48 HAWK21M : I think the IAF is in a better position today to determine its requirements & no supplier will try that considering the competition that exists f
49 Post contains links BarfBag : Very interesting article that expands on what I mentioned above: Why India chose Rafale
50 HAWK21M : So when is the Signing to be completed.....
51 Post contains links BarfBag : Ajai Shukla's article addresses this: The Rafale's long flight to India
52 sebolino : Of course, this contract is very important for Dassault. We've seen it with Brazil. If the contract is signed, many other countries may be interested
53 BarfBag : What are you complaining about ? All these requirements and procedures were clearly stated in the original RFP. Nobody had any obligation to respond,
54 Ruscoe : My two bobs worth: IMO the Industrial offsetts are the determining factor. Producing most of them in India will keep their aerospace industry kicking
55 Ozair : We also locally assembled all but two of the F/A-18s. The aircraft will be assembled from kits and probably include greater locally manufactured cont
56 sweair : In Sweden many say Gripen NG is the best choice for anyone, the national bias aside, what do you non-swedes say about that? We have paid a lot for our
57 YTZ : Nonsense. Would you rather the contract have gone to somebody else?
58 Ruscoe :
59 francoflier : I doubt it. Politics are very much involved I'm sure, but the annoucement of the 'MoU' took place well before Sarkozy started his campaign (the offic
60 HAWK21M : It won based on the IAF requirements........needed........
61 Post contains links sebolino : As it shoud be expected, the contract is still disputed ... Let the show begin. Manipulation claim over Indian Rafale jet deal http://www.telegraph.co
62 Post contains links and images BarfBag : Yawn. The letter is posted in full on Livefist. It's certainly full of clinching evidence alright. I suggest people read the BS in the original, inste
63 spudh : What backing is there to the claim that the Typhoon outperformed the Rafale in Libya?
64 francoflier : Excerpt from the article: "He was also concerned by reports Rafales were outperformed by Typhoons in operations over Libya." This goes to show how rid
65 Post contains links jouy31 : http://www.4-traders.com/THALES-4715...dar-to-Dassault-Aviation-14248583/ THALES : delivers first production RBE2 AESA radar to Dassault Aviation 03/3
66 HAWK21M : The IAF will consider costs & an Aircraft which caters to their exact needs.
67 BarfBag : Indeed. If lobbying was the basis by which this was decided, IAF would have picked the F/A-18 Hornet. The Americans had by far the most clout and inf
68 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Cassidian seems to think otherwise..... http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...a-deal-says-cassidian-boss-370281/ Quote: "Cassidian has not given up
69 BarfBag : They can investigate all they want but they've no recourse as such, having already been rejected in the L1 round. The only way they'll be in contenti
70 HAWK21M : There are bound to be sore losers...considering the quantity of the order.....Not surprising....
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