johnkrist From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1340 posts, RR: 5 Posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 18415 times:
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A Norwegian C-130 routed from Evenas to Kiruna is missing. Radar contact was lost around 3pm local time.
Search efforts has produced no result yet, and the weather situation is bad with snow drift and winds.
The search and rescue team consists of aircraft from Sweden, Norway and the US. The aircraft was part of the "Cold Response" drill in northern Scandinavia. Aftenposten states that the aircraft was new...
7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, Metz 58-AF1
johnkrist From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1340 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 18172 times:
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Swedish Search And Rescue department reports that Norwegian F16's has picked up heat spots in the area, but it's too early to say if it's hikers, reindeer/wildlife or the crew.
johnkrist From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1340 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 18043 times:
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And now the Ministry of defense reported they were wrong, the plane has NOT been found.
Geez, I can understand it's chaos right now, but to call out that the crew has perished without actually knowing it is unbelievable...
7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, Metz 58-AF1
Mortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3230 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 18027 times:
The ministry of defence in Norway has withdrawn the announcment that 5 has perished. The aircraft apparently has not been located. There will be a pressconferance 21:00 Norwegian time.
SAS A340 From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 693 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 17816 times:
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15): When it comes to a crisis the Norwegian authorities are fairly incompetent. They really shouldn't announce anything until the plane is found.
Norway's ministry of defence now confirmed in a press conference that the C-130J has crashed......but the plane hasn't been found yet.
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15): They really shouldn't announce anything
Probably was a prepared "scenario" statement that leaked, someone pushed send instead of save
The search equipment right now is (source Swedish Search And Rescue department):
2 Danish Merlins
2 Norwegian Sea Kings
1 US Hercules
1 US AWACS plane
1 Norwegian Orion
On the ground Swedish mountain rescue and miltary personnel is taking part in the search
The emergency signal caught earlier has not lead to anything
7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, Metz 58-AF1
ThunderboltDrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 17718 times:
latest info:
Quote: 2012-03-15 21:20
Stabsgenomgång på JRCC
2 Norska Seaking och 2 Danska Merlin Helikoptrar står nu i Kiruna och tankar.
i Luften är nu:
-Amerikansk Hercules
-Norsk Orion-Amerikans AWACS
På marken söker fjällräddningsgrupper och flera grupper med militär personal.
Alla vittnesuppgifter verifieras och helikoptrarna skall ut söka på troliga platser.
Tidigare uppgifter om nödsändare har inte gett något.
short summary in english:
2 Danish Sea Kings and 2 Norwegian Merlins are at Kiruna for refueling.
Currently airborne aircraft:
American Hercules and Norwegian Orion and American Awacs.
On the ground several mountain rescue groups are searching on probable locations.
Earlier info about emergency transmitter has not resulted in anything.
JRCC are the Swedish Joint Rescue and Coordination Center (Sweden Rescue)
that is responsible for leading the SAR operation.
CXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 2702 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 17365 times:
Still haven't found anything. Weather is just getting worse, and it looks like the helicopters will have to halt their search. I'm really astounded at how long this is taking.
Hoping for the best. A crash landing with no serious injuries, and the personell are just waiting for rescue services.
BladeLWS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 386 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 17265 times:
Depends on how remote/rough the terrain is, if I remember correctly when we lost the F-22 in Alaska it took some time to locate it also due to all the snow and terrain.
Hopefully the crew survived and are safe from the storm for the time being, one would hope their emergency beacon would be working.
Gyreaux130J From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 126 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 17151 times:
TGIF From Sweden, joined Apr 2008, 273 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 16934 times:
There are now reports that all helicopters are grounded again due to the bad weather. Very bad news since searching by foot in this type of terrain is very slow, even if the current area of interest is "only" 3 by 5 kilometers. Hope the weather improves soon.
SASDC8 From Norway, joined Mar 2006, 663 posts, RR: 1 Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 17172 times:
It it certain that the C-130J is down and if what the media report is correct, it was flying at around 2300 meters altitude is a mountain range were the highest peak is around 2100 meter. That and the fact that there were no mayday call, leads me to assume that they crashed in to a mountain.
A Norwegian Orion and two Norwegian F16s are searching in the area, when the helicopters are grounded due to bad weather.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11712 posts, RR: 52 Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17376 times:
Is it snowing in the area of the crash? Are there any glacias nearby they could have crash landed on? If the crew survived the crash, and the airplane is relitively intact, they would have access to their survival equipment which should keep them alive for a few days. Hopefully rescue won't take that long.
johnkrist From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1340 posts, RR: 5 Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17373 times:
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The Norwegian Orion has observed something orange on the ground in the north east corner of the search area. Would be somewhere around "Nordtoppen" (The North Peak) in the map that ThunderboltDrgn posted. Helicopters are on the way as it's hard for the Orion crew to make out what it is.
7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, Metz 58-AF1
Yeah very poor weather in the area that prevents the helicopters from entering the search area.
Regarding glaciers yes there are a couple of them in the area. check the map link in my previous post.
There is Rabots glasiär between Kebnekaise and Drakryggen and then you have Isfallsglasiären,
Storglasiären on the east side of Kebnekaise and Björlingglasiären just south of Kebnekaise's southern summit..
Also weather forecasts says heavy winds (currently 38 knots, decreasing to 19 knots) and heavy snowing.
Tomorrow weather is supposed to improve with only light winds and light snowing.
SASDC8 From Norway, joined Mar 2006, 663 posts, RR: 1 Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 17073 times:
Norwegian media now reports that metal parts, thought to be from the missing C-130, has be found on both sides of the mountain top Kebnekaise. It sure does not sound good considering the chances for survival.
Me thoughts are with the families of the 5 crewmembers.
ThunderboltDrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0 Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 16959 times:
Quoting SASDC8 (Reply 33): Norwegian media now reports that metal parts, thought to be from the missing C-130, has be found on both sides of the mountain top Kebnekaise. It sure does not sound good considering the chances for survival.
Me thoughts are with the families of the 5 crewmembers.
yes apparently Swedish groundforces claims that the metalparts smells like jet fuel.
ThunderboltDrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0 Reply 35, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16870 times:
Swedish JRCC now confirms that a Swedish unit found several padded objects that are soaked with paraffin (fotogen).
These have been photographed and the images have been sent to the Norwegian military for analysis.
AirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 612 posts, RR: 1 Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16714 times:
Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 26): With the altitude and weather sounds like a CFIT.
Maybe... with an error in altitude, or if they planned to descend to lower than highest mountaintops, a navigation error.
But I do not think CFIT is the only possibility. Several other possibilities come to mind:
Strong winds guided by the mountain forms could cause temporary loss of control, or even structural breakage.
Icing in the bad weather.
Any pilot error or malfunction above just 200 meter separation to the highest mountain tops... no time for mayday, no time to make a correction or emergency landing.
Quoting ThunderboltDrgn (Reply 35): Swedish JRCC now confirms that a Swedish unit found several padded objects that are soaked with paraffin (fotogen).
EY460 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 233 posts, RR: 0 Reply 39, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16248 times:
Very sad news, but thanks to the Scandinavian a.netters for keeping us updated. I've been looking for news on this matter but it's very hard to find something in English.
ThunderboltDrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0 Reply 40, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 16181 times:
Quoting EY460 (Reply 39): Very sad news, but thanks to the Scandinavian a.netters for keeping us updated. I've been looking for news on this matter but it's very hard to find something in English.
ThunderboltDrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0 Reply 41, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 16144 times:
The wreckage or at least parts of ithave now been found.
Search teams have found wreckage debris that are spread out over a large area on
Rabots glacier which is on the westernaside of Kebnekaise's northern and southern summit.
johnkrist From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1340 posts, RR: 5 Reply 43, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 16047 times:
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Quoting ThunderboltDrgn (Reply 41): Swedish JRCC now officially hands the matter over to the Police who will lead the work from now on.
A special thanks to JRCC for the updates over the days that has passed since the crash. Still hoping for survivors, but considering how scattered the wreckage is there might not be. But, we all remember Alive so everything is possible...
7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, Metz 58-AF1
SASDC8 From Norway, joined Mar 2006, 663 posts, RR: 1 Reply 44, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 16066 times:
The wreckage is described to be in many thousand parts and spread over a large area. It seems they went down hard and fast. It was found at about 1500 meters altitude.
johnkrist From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1340 posts, RR: 5 Reply 46, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 15900 times:
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First image from the crash site and aircraft parts has been released by the Norwegian military. It's easy to see why it was hard to find the plane, you can barely see the debris from ground level... http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article14538746.ab
This image is taken approx 100m from impact site and parts are located on both sides of that ridge.
7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, Metz 58-AF1
connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3857 posts, RR: 13 Reply 47, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 15660 times:
Wow. If I am looking at these images correctly, I am thinking the pilot flying drove the a/c right into the side of the mountain/glacier. And it shattered on impact. Even a small amount of snow would cover most of the wreckage.
EY460 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 233 posts, RR: 0 Reply 50, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15291 times:
I have a lot of respect for the Armed Forces for what they are doing. Condolences for the families, friends and colleagues of those involved in the accident. Again airlines.net has been a great resource of information and news. Unfortunately there wasn't the miracle we were all hoping for.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11712 posts, RR: 52 Reply 51, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 15002 times:
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 49): Does these types of aircraft have a sound and datarecorder installed ?
It may have them. Most large military aircraft now are built with them, but I think it is an option. So it all depends on if Norway ordered these C-130Js with DFDR and DVDR.
My condolences to the families and friends of the crew, as well as to the RNoAF 335 Squadron.
CXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 2702 posts, RR: 1 Reply 52, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 14964 times:
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 49): Does these types of aircraft have a sound and datarecorder installed ?
Well, one of the newspapers reported that they were now looking for the data and voice recorder, so I'm assuming they have them installed, and hopefully it will give us some answers.
bjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 2776 posts, RR: 2 Reply 53, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 14589 times:
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 49): Does these types of aircraft have a sound and datarecorder installed ?
Yes. Although they have not been found yet. A Norwegian RAF spokesman said the plane hit 100m below the summit which could possibly suggest a sudden mountain downdraft. May all RIP.
"An idea has to be incredibly absurd to have any reasonable chance of succeeding" --A. Einstein
TGIF From Sweden, joined Apr 2008, 273 posts, RR: 0 Reply 55, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 14197 times:
I heard somewhere that they think they have found the area where most parts of the tail structure is located. Hopefully the data recorders can be located in these surroundings. When the airplain impacted on the mountain side it created an avalanche so some parts may be burried as much as 6m (20ft) deep in the snow. I guess we may have to wait some time before they'll fínd the recorders.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11712 posts, RR: 52 Reply 56, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13973 times:
Have they found anything of the crew, or remains of the crew yet?
From 12.00 (midday) today a ban from visiting the area was put into to place.
This is to make sure the personnel in the area can work undisturbed, but it is also
because the danger of new avalanches and because of claimed unhealthy material
in the debris from the plane wreck. The ban will stay in place until April 15th,
A person at another forum made this image. Its based on the two last
radar contacts with the plane and the elevation profile during their flight.
It shows that according to the radar, the plane was
only 250m above the place of impact when it was 3km from where it impacted. http://postimage.org/image/jibiepd17/full/ (this is the creators own upload link).
canoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2657 posts, RR: 12 Reply 60, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13123 times:
Quoting ThunderboltDrgn (Reply 59): No not much news, work at the site is suspended until midday on Monday
I apologize in advance for not knowing the area. From the photos it seems they're basing operations out of the Kebnekaise mountain lodge? One of the photos showed they're using a sno-cat so they could get to the accident site. So, it's remote, but not incredibly remote?
It seems it never gets snow free up there. If there was indeed an avalanche after the crash that covered most of the wreckage they may never find most of the human remains. There's an accident site on Mt. Rainier here in WA that's been locked in snow and ice for decades.
ThunderboltDrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0 Reply 61, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13004 times:
Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 60): I apologize in advance for not knowing the area. From the photos it seems they're basing operations out of the Kebnekaise mountain lodge? One of the photos showed they're using a sno-cat so they could get to the accident site. So, it's remote, but not incredibly remote?
It seems it never gets snow free up there. If there was indeed an avalanche after the crash that covered most of the wreckage they may never find most of the human remains. There's an accident site on Mt. Rainier here in WA that's been locked in snow and ice for decades.
About how remote it is see for yourself:
The road ends at Nikkaluokta which is a 64km drive from Kiruna. see map.
At Nikkaluokta snowmobiles and Bv 206es have to be unloaded. From Nikkaluokta its about 16km journey with the snowmobile/bv 206 to the mountain lodge. see map.
From the mountain lodge it is an additional 8km to the summit/crash site.
Google earth 3d model of the area around the summit: http://g.co/maps/7gszc
The Double summit of Kebnekaise is at the northern end
of Tarfalavagge (Tarfala valley) just north of the lake.
About the human remains. I don't know
in 1942 a British bomber, type HP.52 Hampden, crashed in the Swedish mountains.
it took 34 years before it was found again.
Nowdays the police have access to GPR, avalanche search dogs and Human Remains Detection dogs.
But i guess that far from everything will be found.
canoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2657 posts, RR: 12 Reply 62, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12939 times:
The road ends at Nikkaluokta which is a 64km drive from Kiruna. see map.
At Nikkaluokta snowmobiles and Bv 206es have to be unloaded. From Nikkaluokta its about 16km journey with the snowmobile/bv 206 to the mountain lodge. see map.
From the mountain lodge it is an additional 8km to the summit/crash site.
Thanks for the information. I'd say that it could have been a worse location. Still on a snowmobile or sno-cat it would take some time (3-4 hours) to access the crash site from Nikkaluokta. I could be wrong though, I've rarely ridden on a sno-cat more than 10 kms.
Quoting ThunderboltDrgn (Reply 61): About the human remains. I don't know
in 1942 a British bomber, type HP.52 Hampden, crashed in the Swedish mountains.
it took 34 years before it was found again.
It's amazing how fast news can disappear from TV, Radio and News Papers once other news are more "interesting". I almost forgot about this horrible tragedy.
It's amazing how fast news can disappear from TV, Radio and News Papers once other news are more "interesting". I almost forgot about this horrible tragedy.
Mortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3230 posts, RR: 2 Reply 65, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12361 times:
Parts of the wreckage is located in such a difficult spot, that one might have to wait until spring to atempt to get it out. This includes the tailsection with possibly the voice and data recorder. The alpine section of the Norwegian marine specialforces has been deployed to the area. The wreckage is scattered over an area with a steep angle of 30 - 80 degree slope before it reaches a vertical wall. The area has has a very high risk of avalanches.
ThunderboltDrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0 Reply 67, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 12091 times:
I found this article at another forum.
The article says that neither of the Seismologic sensors that are present in the area,
registered any Seismologic activity at the time of the crash.
According to the article, if a plane crashed straight into the ground the sensors would register it.
The author of the article then suggests that the plane more likely "skidded" on the ground for a
short while before breaking up completely, which would explain the scattering of the wreckage debris.
ThunderboltDrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0 Reply 68, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11869 times:
A little update, the tail fin and other parts the rearer end of the aircraft have been located
and brought to the hangar in Kiruna where all parts of the wreckage is taken.
Yesterday investigators also found some type of memory banks. They did not know what type it
was so it has been sent to the manufacturer for identification and to see if they can extract
any information from it. They only thing they know about the memory banks is that they do not
belong to the FDR or CVR.
So far they have only managed to search at about 10-20% of an area that is 300x800m.
This area is where they think that they will find the FDR and CVR.
thunderboltdrgn From Sweden, joined Jan 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0 Reply 70, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days ago) and read 11108 times:
All victims have now been identified and their remains will be brought to Norway.
Further searching for debris will continue until the upcoming weekend, then the work
at Kebnekaise will be put on hold since the snowing in the area makes it
bot hard and dangerous to continue the work. Work will then resume towards then end of
July when most of the snow in the area have melted.
The area will continue to be sealed off as a no-go zone for unauthorized persons since
it has been declared as a civilian Skyddsobjekt ("protected object")
TGIF From Sweden, joined Apr 2008, 273 posts, RR: 0 Reply 72, posted (1 year 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10579 times:
"10 tonnes of wreckage found"
That's less than 30%... How much snow will actually melt away during the summer? Let's hope the greenhouse effect will kick in this summer and give us a helping hand.
breiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1808 posts, RR: 2 Reply 74, posted (1 year 1 month 7 hours ago) and read 10372 times:
Some media have aired a potential explanation to the flying level way below the intended one as being the effect of a field of wave clouds.
Such clouds are created by internal atmospheric waves usually leeway of mountain ridges.
Satellite photos of the crash day show that there was such clouds on the ac path towards Knebekaise.
Each wave of cloud has its own sheer wind dragging ac down. So from cloud to cloud, the ac may lose altitude step by step (these clouds also provide uplift which normally compensates the downdraft).
This sounds possible but does not explain how a very experienced crew would not have noticed.
breiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1808 posts, RR: 2 Reply 77, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9670 times:
Quoting JONukl (Reply 76): A preliminary factual report has been issued
In short, the preliminary report indicates that Kiruna Tower instructed the incoming Hercules to descend to level 7.0.
The Hercules copied and executed the instruction bringing her below the top of the mountain ridge.
Due to the bad visibility, the crew did not see the mountain coming as suggested by the elevator found in horizontal position.
The crew went unknowingly straight into the mountain.
Mortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3230 posts, RR: 2 Reply 78, posted (9 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7339 times:
Swedish soldiers have found one of the two black boxes of the Norwegian Hercules that crashed on Kebnekaise Mountain in march. The box was found about 100 meters from the crash site. It will now be sent to England for analasys.
Mortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3230 posts, RR: 2 Reply 80, posted (9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7018 times:
It was the voice recorder that the Swedish soldiers found this weekend. Norwegian soldiers have now entered the search area once again to look for the data recorder.
Can some explain why there are two investigation reports? The article says that one will be published
in January but that the Swedish/Norwegian won't be published until next autumn?
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