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Safety Of Handcuffed Pax On Extradition Flights?  
User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2907 posts, RR: 3
Posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5240 times:

Just came across this article which shows pictures of the extradition flights used by the Polish government to fly people back to Poland after an EU arrest warrant (they fly weekly apparently). As you can see, several of the passengers are handcuffed. If there is any emergency, they are done for. I could understand if said people were considered a major security risk (and there would be one guard per detainee), but it seems most of these people were wanted for minor offences and there are (relatively few) guards. I suppose the flights don't operate under normal safety rules.

On a side note, it is "interesting" (I'm being sarcastic here) what slant the title tries to give to the article. Whereas the text presents the main problem as the costs of the operations due to the Polish authorities' excessive use of European arrest warrants for mostly minor offences, the title plays on populist sentiments ("those criminals are back here in three days"). A pity, because the content of the story certainly deserves attention - I am shocked that such flights (with such contempt for safety) are allowed within the EU.

But this article does come from a tabloid newspaper, so somebody please prove me wrong...


I scratch my head, therefore I am.
9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1896 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5172 times:

None of these people are being extradited for "minor" offences, since fleeing the country to avoid prosecution is not minor in itself. And the risk to aircraft crew, other detainees and people in the flight path is far greater from a planeload of unrestrained criminals than the risk of one of them needing free hands in an emergency. As long as they're cuffed in front, they should be able to evacuate the plane with little problem.


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlinewinelover From Spain, joined Aug 2009, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4811 times:

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 1):
None of these people are being extradited for "minor" offences, since fleeing the country to avoid prosecution is not minor in itself.

That is not correct with regards to intra - European extraditions under the European Arrest Warrant (EAW). Defendants are only being prosecuted for the alleged offences in one of the member states, not to be within the jurisdiction of the requesting country is no offence. In Germany, for example, a prisoner who fled from prison can not even be prosecuted for this (however, he can be prosecuted if he used a weapon or kidnapped another person to achieve his goal), however, a person supporting the prisoner´s attempt to flee from prison can be prosecuted.


User currently offlineprebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6515 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4494 times:

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter):
If there is any emergency, they are done for.

You may be right. Nobody is safe during an emergency, no matter how many emergency exits.

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter):
I suppose the flights don't operate under normal safety rules.

If "normal" = airliner safety rules, then this is not the case. Polish military rules aplly.

This plane is a CASA C-295 military transport of the Polish Air Force. Emergency evacuation is out of the aft cargo ramp, or you use a tin can opener from the inside.

The Polish Air Force has an extraordinarily horrible safety record having lately crashed two transport planes (a Tu-154 and a C-295), both with no survivors. So if I was a Polish citizen living abroad, then I would stay within the law. And fly home with Ryanair or such.

When foreign criminals are extradited from my country, then it normally happens on a scheduled airliner. They are accompanied by Danish police, and often they are handcuffed sitting on the backmost row. They board first, and deboard last.

But at least once a couple of years ago a whole planeload of bastards were sent home to a fellow EU country on a Royal Danish Air Force C-130.

Some airlines are less than happy with transporting handcuffed criminals under police escort. That doesn't apply to Russian Aeroflot. For that reason Danish police has done a lot of business with Aeroflot, and often made a huge diversion via Moscow when dropping a bastard somewhere in an entirely different direction. Sometimes it means staying overnight in Moscow, and then it comes in especially handy that the Russians offer to keep the bastard(s) overnight in their prison, while the Danish police officers can enjoy a night in town.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlinelitz From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1774 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4393 times:
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JPATS 'passengers' always fly handcuffed. Sometimes even with spacers to force wrists apart.

They are not, however, cuffed to the seats.


User currently offlinewinelover From Spain, joined Aug 2009, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4391 times:

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 3):
But at least once a couple of years ago a whole planeload of bastards were sent home to a fellow EU country on a Royal Danish Air Force C-130.

Some airlines are less than happy with transporting handcuffed criminals under police escort. That doesn't apply to Russian Aeroflot. For that reason Danish police has done a lot of business with Aeroflot, and often made a huge diversion via Moscow when dropping a bastard somewhere in an entirely different direction. Sometimes it means staying overnight in Moscow, and then it comes in especially handy that the Russians offer to keep the bastard(s) overnight in their prison, while the Danish police officers can enjoy a night in town.

Perhaps you should reconsider your language. I wouldn't refer to all these people simply as "bastards", the vast majority hasn't even been sentenced before extradition. The EAW opens the door to easy fast track extraditions and I have seen some very, very doubtful cases with requests coming from countries with a rather questionable (I tried to avoid the word "corrupt") judicial system.


User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2843 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4368 times:

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter):
As you can see, several of the passengers are handcuffed.

While working on the General Aviation side, I occasionally saw handcuffed "suspects" or "convicts" passing through our FBO in small planes while being extradited to another jurisdiction. It wasn't very frequent but they were always handcuffed, some had leg restraints and orange jumpsuits.

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 3):
Some airlines are less than happy with transporting handcuffed criminals under police escort. That doesn't apply to Russian Aeroflot. For that reason Danish police has done a lot of business with Aeroflot, and often made a huge diversion via Moscow when dropping a bastard somewhere in an entirely different direction. Sometimes it means staying overnight in Moscow, and then it comes in especially handy that the Russians offer to keep the bastard(s) overnight in their prison, while the Danish police officers can enjoy a night in town.

And some airlines don't transport them at all. My previous employer ( a US domestic airline ) wouldn't do it. Although I don't agree with what he said, I was in a meeting one time where the head of our airline security department (a retired east coast police officer) said something to the effect that "we don't fly them and I wouldn't care if they died in a plane crash".

Personally, I don't have a problem with you calling them bastard(s). The people I saw that were being extradited in handcuffs had been accused of crimes serious enough to earn the name. There are, of course, worse things you could have called them and rightly so.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineprebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6515 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4308 times:

Quoting winelover (Reply 5):
Perhaps you should reconsider your language. I wouldn't refer to all these people simply as "bastards"...

No, that's not needed. I only used the word "bastard" related to criminals who are extradited from my country. My voting power doesn't influence what other countries do.

Quoting winelover (Reply 5):
I have seen some very, very doubtful cases with requests coming from countries with a rather questionable (I tried to avoid the word "corrupt") judicial system.

In my country only criminal bastards are cuffed. My country is not corrupt. http://www.icgg.org/corruption.cpi_2008_data.html



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlinewinelover From Spain, joined Aug 2009, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4288 times:

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 7):
In my country only criminal bastards are cuffed. My country is not corrupt. http://www.icgg.org/corruption.cpi_2....html

I guess you know that a person has to be convicted before one call this person a criminal. The majority of extraditions (based on the EAW, the Schengen treaty or bilateral treaties) happens on the basis of allegations, those persons are required to stand trial in the requesting country. Such a trial can always end with the acquittance of that person.

Perhaps we should make a difference between transfer flights of already convicted persons and pure extradition flights.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12173 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4244 times:

The fact remains that these people are under arrest for some reason. Without some sort of restraint while flying aboard these aircraftm the entire aircraft and crew could be threatened. Many nations have procedures of what to do if there is some type of emergency while flying from point A to point B.

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