stealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5433 posts, RR: 49 Posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 8123 times:
David Cameron's visit to Myanmar was not expected (by most observers) to include a bilateral arrangement regarding delivery of fighter aircraft.
The concept of actually delivering those fighter aircraft FROM Myanmar TO Britain somewhat boggles the mind!
Seems there are a number of un-assembled and crated Spitfires buried in what was once Burma that the Myanmar govt are willing to talk to the British Govt about finding and recovering these aircraft.
Not sure what plans the British govt might have for these aircraft but curious to see the reaction of current Spitfire owners/collectors if 20+ brand new Spits come on to the market.
... damn. if my LOTTO numbers came up I would buy one!!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11711 posts, RR: 52 Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8069 times:
Well, I would be so quick to buy one of them. After being buried for 67 years, they could just be hunks of rusted and decaying metal. My guess is the wooden creates have long ago rotted. Myanmar (Burma) gets lots of rain and if the creates are only buried 6' below the ground, they would still get wet as the rain soaks in and the underground water table comes up.
My guess would be these would most likely be Mk.XII or Mk.24 versions as those were late build versions and also had bomb racks in addition to their guns. These two versions also were not built with Merlin engines. Instead the Mk.XII had a RR Griffon III or IV engine, while the Mk.24 had the RR Griffon 85 engine.
It is also possible, but not likely they could be Mk.XIVe versions with the Griffon 65 engine, but this Mark number did not have bomb racks.
Eagleboy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1619 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7686 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1): After being buried for 67 years, they could just be hunks of rusted and decaying metal. My guess is the wooden creates have long ago rotted. Myanmar (Burma) gets lots of rain and if the creates are only buried 6' below the ground, they would still get wet as the rain soaks in and the underground water table comes up.
He initialled scanned 20 feet down, they were deeper then that. And considering the state of some currently airworthy models before their many years of restoration I am sure that the Warbird community will be able to get at least 50% of these beauties in the air again.
"David Cundall, 62, spent 15 years doggedly searching for the Mk II planes, an exercise that involved 12 trips to Burma and cost him more than £130,000.
“They were just buried there in transport crates,” Mr Cundall said. “They were waxed, wrapped in greased paper and their joints tarred. They will be in near perfect condition.”
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11711 posts, RR: 52 Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7516 times:
Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 3): “They were waxed, wrapped in greased paper and their joints tarred. They will be in near perfect condition.”
Then that would make more sense. They could be in very good condition, but at 40' deep they may also be in the water table.
Revelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 10471 posts, RR: 20 Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7506 times:
Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 3): “They were just buried there in transport crates,” Mr Cundall said. “They were waxed, wrapped in greased paper and their joints tarred. They will be in near perfect condition.”
Eagleboy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1619 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7472 times:
From reading the article I guess they were newly arrived aircraft that had not yet been put into operation. The finder had eye witness info that led him to the location over the course of 15 years.
The article points out that newer aircraft were available so the Spits weren't needed. However the story that they were buried in July 1945 'due to fears of a Japanese invasion' seems a bit odd. I would assume at that stage everyone (except the Japanese) knew the end was nigh and wind-down operations in certain theaters would have been commencing.
Off hand does anyone know the situation in Burma/Malaya in mid-45?
I suppose we better not hold our breath until these aircraft actually see the light of day again. Hopefully this will happen.
chuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 700 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7464 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4): Then that would make more sense. They could be in very good condition, but at 40' deep they may also be in the water table.
"glacier girl" turned out pretty ok, and she hadn't been prepped for storage... matter of fact, being in a "stable" environment like earth is probably better than in a moving glacier... I think someone should someday go and get the other aircraft out there (there's a B17!)... eve though as I'd understood it, "glacier girl" turned out to be a huge financial hole in terms of cost of retrieving it vs what it is now worth.
...they didn't bother a lot, they arrived in Burma already stored in crates.
They just enlarged some shell holes/trench and buried them there... easier than unpacking and destroying them. Plus you never know, maybe they thought they'd be back to retrieve them at some later stage...
"He visited Burma over and over again, slowly building friendly relations with the military junta that have for decades held power in the capital, Rangoon..................And finally, he found the Spitfires, at a location that is being kept a closely guarded secret. Mr Cundall said: “We sent a borehole down and used a camera to look at the crates. They seemed to be in good condition.” Mr Cundall explained that in August 1945 the Mark XIV aeroplanes, which used Rolls-Royce Griffon engines instead of the Merlins of earlier models, were put in crates and transported from the factory in Castle Bromwich, in the West Midlands, to Burma.
Once they arrived at the RAF base, however, the Spitfires were deemed surplus to requirements.........The order was given to bury 12 Spitfires while they were still in their transport crates.......It is possible that a further eight Spitfires were then buried in December 1945, bringing the potential total of lost Spitfires to 20.
Mr Cundall said that about 21,000 Spitfires were built, but at the end of the war very few were wanted.“In 1945, Spitfires were ten a penny. Jets were coming into service. Spitfires were struck off charge, unwanted. Lots of Spitfires were just pushed off the back of aircraft carriers into the sea."
cbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1508 posts, RR: 6 Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 7256 times:
This is fantastic news and would give a healthy dose of Spitfires to the world market! Even if only a hand full of them make it to the skies, I am sure most of not all will be displayed at some point! If only I had a few million laying around to get one!
ptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3770 posts, RR: 20 Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6890 times:
Quoting chuchoteur (Reply 15):
...by the time they got delivered to Burma, they were surplus to requirements, so they just got put in the nearest available trench and buried.
I presume that this was preferable to a full disposal as you never know, at that stage the war was not yet fully over.
I see, thanks!
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3249 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6746 times:
Quoting stealthz (Thread starter): Not sure what plans the British govt might have for these aircraft but curious to see the reaction of current Spitfire owners/collectors if 20+ brand new Spits come on to the market.
... damn. if my LOTTO numbers came up I would buy one!!
I expect current spit owners will be less than happy. Dumping 20 spits still in crates on the market would send values thru the floor. Whomever ends up with the these aircraft needs to be very careful to not spend a lot of cash on recovery & restoration while also driving values down.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
chuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 700 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6594 times:
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 17): I expect current spit owners will be less than happy. Dumping 20 spits still in crates on the market would send values thru the floor. Whomever ends up with the these aircraft needs to be very careful to not spend a lot of cash on recovery & restoration while also driving values down.
I wouldn't think so...
I would anticipate that not all 20 will be restorable to flight condition... in actual fact, if out of the 20 they can get 10 airworthy that would be great. It very much depends on the condition they are in.
Also, even with a well preserved aircraft (such as "Glacier gilr") the restoration to flight will inevitably take some time, and the number of people who can do that to a Spit a few and far between. Even if all 20 could be restored to flight, they would not arrive on the market all at the same time, more likely a couple at a time every couple of years...
... and there are lots of people out there who would want a Spitfire!
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3249 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6588 times:
Quoting chuchoteur (Reply 19): Even if all 20 could be restored to flight, they would not arrive on the market all at the same time, more likely a couple at a time every couple of years...
A good example of someone being careful to maintain the values of the aircraft... as I suggested...
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
I would anticipate that not all 20 will be restorable to flight condition... in actual fact, if out of the 20 they can get 10 airworthy that would be great. It very much depends on the condition they are in.
Which would mean that there will be spare parts available for those existing Spitfire owners.
chuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 700 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6438 times:
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 20): A good example of someone being careful to maintain the values of the aircraft... as I suggested...
... sure, but more importantly there are not enough guys out there knowledgeable about Spitfires to simultaneously return 20 of them to flight!
25 moo: I highly doubt 20 boxed, unrestored Spits would cause a permanent depression of the market - it would certainly cause a local depression, but it woul
26 Ant72LBA: Siege of Malta - Spitfires flew off carriers to reinforce the island.
27 GST: Indeed, though they couldn't land on the carriers again without using the net, so I doubt there were many on carriers come the end of the war to be t
28 connies4ever: Talking about this with my uncle yesterday, he was in the RAF at the time of the last unpleasantness. By 1945 General Slim had pushed the Japanese ba
29 bikerthai: And since the Brits were more in tuned with geo-politics than the US at the time, they could probably have easily seen potential adversary in a futur
30 cmb56: The Spitfire MK XIV was an RAF version not a RN version. At least by US regulation if you recover only the data plate from the original aircraft you c
31 wvsuperhornet: It still would be interesting to see them dug up and put on display someplace even if they are flyable.
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