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British Pm - Myanmar Fighter Deal..  
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5696 posts, RR: 44
Posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 9422 times:
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David Cameron's visit to Myanmar was not expected (by most observers) to include a bilateral arrangement regarding delivery of fighter aircraft.

The concept of actually delivering those fighter aircraft FROM Myanmar TO Britain somewhat boggles the mind!

Seems there are a number of un-assembled and crated Spitfires buried in what was once Burma that the Myanmar govt are willing to talk to the British Govt about finding and recovering these aircraft.

http://news.in.msn.com/international...article.aspx?cp-documentid=6020619

Not sure what plans the British govt might have for these aircraft but curious to see the reaction of current Spitfire owners/collectors if 20+ brand new Spits come on to the market.

... damn. if my LOTTO numbers came up I would buy one!!


If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12146 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 9368 times:

Well, I would be so quick to buy one of them. After being buried for 67 years, they could just be hunks of rusted and decaying metal. My guess is the wooden creates have long ago rotted. Myanmar (Burma) gets lots of rain and if the creates are only buried 6' below the ground, they would still get wet as the rain soaks in and the underground water table comes up.

My guess would be these would most likely be Mk.XII or Mk.24 versions as those were late build versions and also had bomb racks in addition to their guns. These two versions also were not built with Merlin engines. Instead the Mk.XII had a RR Griffon III or IV engine, while the Mk.24 had the RR Griffon 85 engine.

It is also possible, but not likely they could be Mk.XIVe versions with the Griffon 65 engine, but this Mark number did not have bomb racks.


User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4836 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 9324 times:

Quoting stealthz (Thread starter):
The concept of actually delivering those fighter aircraft FROM Myanmar TO Britain somewhat boggles the mind!

Well, the UK could offer their retired Jaguars in exchange to make it a true two-way deal!  
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"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineEagleboy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1834 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8985 times:
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Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
After being buried for 67 years, they could just be hunks of rusted and decaying metal. My guess is the wooden creates have long ago rotted. Myanmar (Burma) gets lots of rain and if the creates are only buried 6' below the ground, they would still get wet as the rain soaks in and the underground water table comes up.

He initialled scanned 20 feet down, they were deeper then that. And considering the state of some currently airworthy models before their many years of restoration I am sure that the Warbird community will be able to get at least 50% of these beauties in the air again.

"David Cundall, 62, spent 15 years doggedly searching for the Mk II planes, an exercise that involved 12 trips to Burma and cost him more than £130,000.
“They were just buried there in transport crates,” Mr Cundall said. “They were waxed, wrapped in greased paper and their joints tarred. They will be in near perfect condition.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ring-war-to-be-returned-to-UK.html


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12146 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8815 times:

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 3):
“They were waxed, wrapped in greased paper and their joints tarred. They will be in near perfect condition.”

Then that would make more sense. They could be in very good condition, but at 40' deep they may also be in the water table.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12556 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8805 times:

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 3):
“They were just buried there in transport crates,” Mr Cundall said. “They were waxed, wrapped in greased paper and their joints tarred. They will be in near perfect condition.”

That puts a different spin on things!



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently onlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7607 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8790 times:

I would love this to be true.


"They were waxed, wrapped in greased paper and their joints tarred. They will be in near perfect condition.”

They were then packed into transport crates, a 40' hole was dug, and they were buried.

But why go to all this bother.


User currently offlineEagleboy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1834 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8771 times:
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From reading the article I guess they were newly arrived aircraft that had not yet been put into operation. The finder had eye witness info that led him to the location over the course of 15 years.
The article points out that newer aircraft were available so the Spits weren't needed. However the story that they were buried in July 1945 'due to fears of a Japanese invasion' seems a bit odd. I would assume at that stage everyone (except the Japanese) knew the end was nigh and wind-down operations in certain theaters would have been commencing.

Off hand does anyone know the situation in Burma/Malaya in mid-45?

I suppose we better not hold our breath until these aircraft actually see the light of day again. Hopefully this will happen.


User currently offlinechuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8763 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
Then that would make more sense. They could be in very good condition, but at 40' deep they may also be in the water table.

"glacier girl" turned out pretty ok, and she hadn't been prepped for storage... matter of fact, being in a "stable" environment like earth is probably better than in a moving glacier... I think someone should someday go and get the other aircraft out there (there's a B17!)... eve though as I'd understood it, "glacier girl" turned out to be a huge financial hole in terms of cost of retrieving it vs what it is now worth.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 6):
But why go to all this bother.

...they didn't bother a lot, they arrived in Burma already stored in crates.

They just enlarged some shell holes/trench and buried them there... easier than unpacking and destroying them. Plus you never know, maybe they thought they'd be back to retrieve them at some later stage...


User currently offlineEagleboy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1834 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8607 times:
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This is looking a bit more credible, have a read of the link here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/de...-find-lost-Spitfires-in-Burma.html


"He visited Burma over and over again, slowly building friendly relations with the military junta that have for decades held power in the capital, Rangoon..................And finally, he found the Spitfires, at a location that is being kept a closely guarded secret. Mr Cundall said: “We sent a borehole down and used a camera to look at the crates. They seemed to be in good condition.” Mr Cundall explained that in August 1945 the Mark XIV aeroplanes, which used Rolls-Royce Griffon engines instead of the Merlins of earlier models, were put in crates and transported from the factory in Castle Bromwich, in the West Midlands, to Burma.

Once they arrived at the RAF base, however, the Spitfires were deemed surplus to requirements.........The order was given to bury 12 Spitfires while they were still in their transport crates.......It is possible that a further eight Spitfires were then buried in December 1945, bringing the potential total of lost Spitfires to 20.

Mr Cundall said that about 21,000 Spitfires were built, but at the end of the war very few were wanted.“In 1945, Spitfires were ten a penny. Jets were coming into service. Spitfires were struck off charge, unwanted. Lots of Spitfires were just pushed off the back of aircraft carriers into the sea."


User currently offlinecbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1555 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8555 times:

This is fantastic news and would give a healthy dose of Spitfires to the world market! Even if only a hand full of them make it to the skies, I am sure most of not all will be displayed at some point! If only I had a few million laying around to get one!


ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlinechuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8548 times:

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 10):
If only I had a few million laying around to get one!

...same... *sigh


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7375 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8326 times:

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 9):
Lots of Spitfires were just pushed off the back of aircraft carriers into the sea."

Those would be Seafires not Spitfires.


User currently offlineEagleboy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1834 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8294 times:
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Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
Those would be Seafires not Spitfires.

I was directly quoting the newspaper article......


User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days ago) and read 8248 times:

What is the story behind these aircraft getting buried in 1945? I was under the impression the Allies won.


The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlinechuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8225 times:

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 14):
What is the story behind these aircraft getting buried in 1945? I was under the impression the Allies won.

...by the time they got delivered to Burma, they were surplus to requirements, so they just got put in the nearest available trench and buried.

I presume that this was preferable to a full disposal as you never know, at that stage the war was not yet fully over.


User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8189 times:

Quoting chuchoteur (Reply 15):

...by the time they got delivered to Burma, they were surplus to requirements, so they just got put in the nearest available trench and buried.

I presume that this was preferable to a full disposal as you never know, at that stage the war was not yet fully over.

I see, thanks!



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8045 times:
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Quoting stealthz (Thread starter):
Not sure what plans the British govt might have for these aircraft but curious to see the reaction of current Spitfire owners/collectors if 20+ brand new Spits come on to the market.

... damn. if my LOTTO numbers came up I would buy one!!

I expect current spit owners will be less than happy. Dumping 20 spits still in crates on the market would send values thru the floor. Whomever ends up with the these aircraft needs to be very careful to not spend a lot of cash on recovery & restoration while also driving values down.



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User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4519 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8013 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):

Those would be Seafires not Spitfires

Spitfires and Seafires were flown off Aircraft Carriers.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlinechuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7893 times:

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 17):
I expect current spit owners will be less than happy. Dumping 20 spits still in crates on the market would send values thru the floor. Whomever ends up with the these aircraft needs to be very careful to not spend a lot of cash on recovery & restoration while also driving values down.

I wouldn't think so...

I would anticipate that not all 20 will be restorable to flight condition... in actual fact, if out of the 20 they can get 10 airworthy that would be great. It very much depends on the condition they are in.

Also, even with a well preserved aircraft (such as "Glacier gilr") the restoration to flight will inevitably take some time, and the number of people who can do that to a Spit a few and far between. Even if all 20 could be restored to flight, they would not arrive on the market all at the same time, more likely a couple at a time every couple of years...

... and there are lots of people out there who would want a Spitfire!  


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7887 times:
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Quoting chuchoteur (Reply 19):
Even if all 20 could be restored to flight, they would not arrive on the market all at the same time, more likely a couple at a time every couple of years...

A good example of someone being careful to maintain the values of the aircraft... as I suggested...



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User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2130 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7878 times:

Quoting chuchoteur (Reply 19):
I wouldn't think so...

I would anticipate that not all 20 will be restorable to flight condition... in actual fact, if out of the 20 they can get 10 airworthy that would be great. It very much depends on the condition they are in.

Which would mean that there will be spare parts available for those existing Spitfire owners.   

bt



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7375 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 22 hours ago) and read 7846 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 18):

Spitfires and Seafires were flown off Aircraft Carriers.

Are you sure about that?


User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 10 hours ago) and read 7795 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 22):

Are you sure about that?

There's no indication of that here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Seafire

However, I think you're being picky - one can hardly say a Seafire is not a Spitfire.



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlinechuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 5 hours ago) and read 7737 times:

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 20):
A good example of someone being careful to maintain the values of the aircraft... as I suggested...

... sure, but more importantly there are not enough guys out there knowledgeable about Spitfires to simultaneously return 20 of them to flight!  


25 moo : I highly doubt 20 boxed, unrestored Spits would cause a permanent depression of the market - it would certainly cause a local depression, but it woul
26 Ant72LBA : Siege of Malta - Spitfires flew off carriers to reinforce the island.
27 Post contains links and images GST : Indeed, though they couldn't land on the carriers again without using the net, so I doubt there were many on carriers come the end of the war to be t
28 Post contains links connies4ever : Talking about this with my uncle yesterday, he was in the RAF at the time of the last unpleasantness. By 1945 General Slim had pushed the Japanese ba
29 bikerthai : And since the Brits were more in tuned with geo-politics than the US at the time, they could probably have easily seen potential adversary in a futur
30 cmb56 : The Spitfire MK XIV was an RAF version not a RN version. At least by US regulation if you recover only the data plate from the original aircraft you c
31 wvsuperhornet : It still would be interesting to see them dug up and put on display someplace even if they are flyable.
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