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Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon  
User currently offlineramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1541 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6732 times:

First off, sorry about the blurry pic. This aircraft has been sitting down at the FBO for almost a week now. After looking at the database. It looks like the Dutch have 2 KDC-10's. Both of them show with a boom. This one didn't have the boom. I didn't catch the aircraft number. Does anybody know why a Dutch transport would be sitting idle at PDX for this long?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/finklejag/photo.jpg

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline9MMPQ From Netherlands, joined Nov 2011, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6654 times:

I can't help with the why but this would be T-255, a DC-10 which operates alongside our 2 KDC-10s. Apart from the normal military missions it's also regularly used for humanitarian missions.


I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
User currently offlinemcg From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6609 times:

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 1):
it's also regularly used for humanitarian missions.


Perhaps Portland is running low on beer and the RDAF has airlifted an emergency supply
   


User currently onlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 727 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6592 times:

Quoting mcg (Reply 2):
Perhaps Portland is running low on beer and the RDAF has airlifted an emergency supply

Intel needed some new tools from ASML really really badly.


User currently offlinelarshjort From Denmark, joined Dec 2007, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6580 times:

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 1):
I can't help with the why but this would be T-255, a DC-10 which operates alongside our 2 KDC-10s. Apart from the normal military missions it's also regularly used for humanitarian missions.

Didn't knew The RNLAF had a plain DC-10. I remember seeing the KDC-10's doing touch and goes in AAL a few fridays in a row. A beautiful aircraft.

Quoting mcg (Reply 2):
RDAF

The largest aircraft the danish air force operates is a C-130   

/Lars



139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3756 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6544 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Portland has several world wide humanitarian agencies so it may be loading for one of them.

User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7762 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6444 times:

I seem to recall that the RNLAF actually had 4 DC10's.

These were the 2 KDC10's, T255 and a spares ship.

Can anyone confirm this.


User currently offlineramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1541 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6444 times:

It was still there when I came into work today. It was aircraft 255. It finally took off around 14:00.

User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3997 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6401 times:

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 6):
I seem to recall that the RNLAF actually had 4 DC10's.

These were the 2 KDC10's, T255 and a spares ship.

Can anyone confirm this.

That is correct.

Quoting mcg (Reply 2):
RDAF

Not a common abbreviation for the Dutch AF, or a classic mistake:

Denmark - Danish - Copenhagen - Carlsberg
Netherlands (Holland) - Dutch - Amsterdam - Heineken

We maken fun about American tourists who aren't sure in which country they are, but don't worry, I can't point out Wyoming on the map either  



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2199 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6393 times:

Here is a video (In Dutch) of the third RNLAF (KLU) DC10-30CF, with registration T255.

This is the first (certification) DC10 with the CUP (cockpit upgrade program) installed. This CUP will also be installed at the two RNLAF KDC10's and the 59 USAF KDC10 aircraft.

From elapsed time 2.18 minutes the upgraded cockpit is clearly visible .

See : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfvNvq7UZow

The aircraft (MSN 46987, L/N255, ex United) will be sold after the cockpit upgrade of the two KDC10's has been finished. (budget cuts) and will have been active for approx. 2 years. What a terrible waste of money.

[Edited 2012-05-24 02:07:25]


Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlineNBGSkyGod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 833 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6325 times:

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 8):
We maken fun about American tourists who aren't sure in which country they are, but don't worry, I can't point out Wyoming on the map either

Neither can we, but that another discussion.

Interesting though that it would be sitting for two weeks without a mission. Is it used only for RNLAF missions or is it available for NATO tasking as well?



"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7762 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 6230 times:

ptrjong.

Do you have any details of the 4th aircraft.

Many thanks


User currently onlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 727 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 6210 times:

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 8):
We maken fun about American tourists who aren't sure in which country they are, but don't worry, I can't point out Wyoming on the map either

I just met a merchant mariner who was absolutely insistent that Belgium was part of the Netherlands. So, sure-- confusion. I think maybe he wanted to know what the "low countries" were, because he kept asking what "the other" constituent of the Netherlands other than Belgium was. Maybe he was looking for Luxembourg? I suggested Flanders, and I couldn't remember Wallonia. Still no idea what he was after. Amusing nonetheless.


User currently offlinepetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3389 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 6204 times:

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 11):
Do you have any details of the 4th aircraft.

There ain't no 4th.

The RNLAF has only got three DC-10s. Two tankers and a normal one for use as cargo and troop transport.

The RNLAF bought three DC-10s from Martinair. They then leased them back to Martinair for a while until the planes could be converted into tankers. During this lease period Martinair crashed PH-MBN at Faro. It took a while, but eventually it was decided to buy another DC-10, this time from United. However, due to budget cuts, it was decided that the third DC-10 would not to go for the tanker conversion. It will get the cockpit update though.


Type --------------- Serial ------- C/N -------------- Former identity
DC-10-30CF ----- (T-218) ----- 46924/218 ----- PH-MBN, Martinair - crashed at Faro
KDC-10-30F ----- T-235 ------- 46956/235 ----- PH-MBP, Martinair
DC-10-30CF ----- T-255 ------- 46987/255 ----- N1858U, United
KDC-10-30F ----- T-264 ------- 46985/264 ----- PH-MBT, Martinair



Attamottamotta!
User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2199 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6186 times:

AFAIK also a fourth DC-10-30CF was acquired for spare parts in 2006., see under Dec. 2006 news :
http://www.taxiways.de/DC-10/misc/news.html

According several sources this is the sister-ship of T255 : T253 with MSN 46986 and L/N 253, prev. registration N1857U.
The aircraft is still stored at Marana (MZJ).

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Botterman Bram - AirTeamImages



See also : http://www.planespotters.net/Product...0&fleet=3061&fleetStatus=6



Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2199 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 6107 times:

I did some further research : (Most recent picture ???) T-253 (old registration N1857U visible) was still stored at Marana in May 2011.


Original uploaded by Savvas Garozis, for other sizes, see : http://www.flickr.com/photos/22331715@N06/6141336569/

Some other sources : http://www.airframes.org/reg/t253

Also : http://www.aerotransport.org/php/go.php and search : T-253



Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlineramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1541 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 6090 times:

Quoting 747classic (Reply 9):
The aircraft (MSN 46987, L/N255, ex United)

Then I worked this aircraft back in the day. Before UA converted the few DC-10-30's they had to cargo planes, they flew around the system as passenger planes. There was one 30 that already had a upper deck cargo door installed. I think UA bought this plane from World. It might of been N1857U.

[Edited 2012-05-25 07:15:39]

User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2199 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 6065 times:

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 16):
I think UA bought this plane from World. It might of been N1857U.

Correct, Both N1857U and N1858U have been bought by UA from World : http://www.planespotters.net/Product...53-Royal-Netherlands-Air-Force.php
http://www.planespotters.net/Product...55-Royal-Netherlands-Air-Force.php



Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7762 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 6022 times:

Many thanks for your help.

It was T-253.

When they sell T-255, it might be a good idea to offload T-253 as well.

After all, the cockpit of the KDC10 will not match the DC10, and I suspect
that it will have been pretty thoroughly gutted by then.


User currently offlinemcg From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5965 times:

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 8):
We maken fun about American tourists who aren't sure in which country they are, but don't worry, I can't point out Wyoming on the map either

No confusion about the location of Denmark and Holland, but I should have paid a little more attention to the appropriate abbreviation for the Royal Netherlands Air Force.


User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2199 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5963 times:

The sale, next year, of T-255 is political motivated and IMO decided by no-no's with no technical expertise at all, after completion of a totally mis-managed modification program (5+ years).

But all costs of the very expensive modification of T-255 have already been paid for. The DC10 can be operated relative cheap in military cargo-operations for at least five years, till the next HMV is due.
The other two tankers can exclusively be used for "real tanker" operations and not used for transport operations.

However, no cargo airline can and will buy T-255, with it's unique (military) cockpit layout. So the remaining value will also be very low.......................
The only possible customer could be the USAF with a fleet of 59 KC10's , with the same cockpit.
Perhaps they want it for free.

T-253 can only be sold for scrap-value and can better be kept as a spare parts provider for the whole fleet. The only costs are the parking-fees at Marana.

[Edited 2012-05-25 14:02:25]


Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1367 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5915 times:

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 8):

We maken fun about American tourists who aren't sure in which country they are, but don't worry, I can't point out Wyoming on the map either  

It's the one that looks like a big rectangle.  


User currently offline9MMPQ From Netherlands, joined Nov 2011, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5853 times:

Never knew about the spare parts ship. That's what i like around here, there's always something knew to find out about.


I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
User currently offlinepdxswa From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5641 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

To all who are interested to know as to why T-255 was actually at PDX. First off their has been a lot of speculation that it came in to PDX because it was broken. Not entirely true. It came in to pick up some UAV's to take back to the Netherlands. While it was waiting to pick up the UAV's. It broke and parts had to be flown in from the Netherlands. So while it was waiting for the UAV's it was fixed. UAV's loaded up and it left !  Smile

[Edited 2012-05-26 23:54:33]

User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7088 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5286 times:

Would love to see these Dc 10s being replaced with KLMs MD 11s  


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
25 747classic : Why would you want to created another subtype. The Dutch defense budget is already very thight, so another try to "invent the wheel" will never happe
26 Post contains images columba : Don´t get me wrong I don´t want to see the KD 10s ago but if one day they have to go, then please being replaced by MD 11s
27 Post contains images LifelinerOne : The KDC-10's barely survived the latest budget cuts. I suspect the end of Dutch in-flight refueling when the KDC-10's are taken out of use. Cheers!
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