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Comfort On Gov Passenger Aircraft?  
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2884 posts, RR: 10
Posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 12588 times:
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I just watched a short piece on Hillary Clinton on CNN. She has just arrived in her 100th country and has flown way over 800,000 miles. Condi Rice flew over a million miles. I often see Hillary walking off a 757, and sometimes the 747 that serves as Air Force One when the President is on board.

I have seen pics of the interior of the 747. Looks like a comfortable livingroom and office in a Long Island home. I know there is a bedroom but I haven't seen it. As a heavy business traveler I pay a lot of attention to which airline I fly based on seat comfort. But no matter how comfortable the seat, even if you get a solid 8+ hours of sleep, one still arrives feeling like poop. The 787 is supposed to remedy this quite a bit due to better air pressure and lighting. I can't wait to try that for myself!
Is the Gov fleet of Boeings outfitted with better conditions for the Sec of State or the President so they can arrive and be ready to do hard business without that awful post-flight feeling?

Or will the Gov get a few 787's and 748's for better comfort?
And how many pax ac do they have? and what is the range of Hillary's 757?

A lot of questions I know. Thanks!


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinebwest From Belgium, joined Jul 2006, 1368 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 12544 times:

I've flown on the Belgian government A330 a few times. It's an old Sabena bird, and I think the seats still date back to Sabena times. They're very worn and uncomfortable. There's also a business class up front, with rather comfy albeit not-fully lie flat seats.


I love my Airport Job! :)
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15728 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 12544 times:

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
I have seen pics of the interior of the 747. Looks like a comfortable livingroom and office in a Long Island home.

It's comfortable but not luxurious. Much less of a palace or mansion than Middle Eastern aircraft. You might describe the furnishings as suburban American office park. The White House is largely the same really. It has the old opulent museum areas, but it's mostly an office building.

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
I know there is a bedroom but I haven't seen it

The stateroom in the nose has a pair of divans that can each be converted to a bed. I'm pretty sure the president does not have an actual bed, unless something has changed.

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
Is the Gov fleet of Boeings outfitted with better conditions for the Sec of State or the President so they can arrive and be ready to do hard business without that awful post-flight feeling?

Theoretically, but I wouldn't argue that it's any nicer than a Gulfstream you'd get from Netjets, let alone a BBJ for personal use. It would be interesting to see how much floor space the president actually gets in the VC-25 (the stateroom, office, and bathroom) compared to other planes. Most of Air Force One is devoted to press and staff space plus communications and meeting areas rather than presidential comfort.

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
And how many pax ac do they have?

Quite a few, in varying states of relative luxury. Each service has its own VIP planes (even the Coast Guard) as far as I know, plus some civilian government agencies.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 12337 times:

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
walking off a 757

The B757 aircraft have one office with a berthable divan/ couch.

Back after the Christmas tsunami in Indonesia when former President's Bush and Clinton flew on the 'best' B757 across the region in early 2005. Former President Clinton slept stretched out on the floor, while Former President Bush had the 'bed'. Clinton preferred sleeping flat on a hard surface rather than the reclining seats, which gave him cramps in his back. The non-bed seats on US military/ diplomatic aircraft are more like 80s first class seats than today's business class lie flat seats.

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
Is the Gov fleet of Boeings outfitted with better conditions for the Sec of State or the President so they can arrive and be ready to do hard business without that awful post-flight feeling?

The US government VIP aircraft cannot match the level of comfort on long range flights of today's top level commercial aircraft. Heck, even most business jets smaller than the BBJ/ ACJ cannot match that comfort level.

Aircraft like the VC-25 and the B757 try to get the 'primary' to the destination relatively rested, but the rest of the staff is much more like 20 year past business class.

Very seldom will the 'primary' come off the plane and do more than a short greeting ceremony. Then it is off to a top line hotel or the embassy guest house for a shower and nap before any serious work.

It is often said the chief requirement for Secrectary of State is the ability to look fresh and rested when bone tired.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19499 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12200 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
The stateroom in the nose has a pair of divans that can each be converted to a bed. I'm pretty sure the president does not have an actual bed, unless something has changed.

It's a lie-flat bed in a private stateroom at the nose of a 747. I dunno about you, but I think that's pretty dope.  
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
Theoretically, but I wouldn't argue that it's any nicer than a Gulfstream you'd get from Netjets, let alone a BBJ for personal use. It would be interesting to see how much floor space the president actually gets in the VC-25 (the stateroom, office, and bathroom) compared to other planes. Most of Air Force One is devoted to press and staff space plus communications and meeting areas rather than presidential comfort.
http://www.whitehousemuseum.org/imag.../AF1/Air-Force-One-28000-Main2.png

(the image is too large to post here, so click on it.)

The area carpeted in blue is for press and the area carpeted in tan is "The White House." It's actually most of the aircraft and it's very generous in size. I agree that the photos I've seen of the interior show that the decor is muted and businesslike. I like it. Its very existence is opulent...but somehow not showy.

Contrast that to some of the designer interiors of private jets, like Abramovich's:


The thing about AF1 is that the "soft product" is not to be beat. They know you by name. They know how you take your coffee (AF1 has a list of all frequent passengers and their coffee orders). They know what you like to eat and when. They will show up with anything you ask in seconds. And five years later when you have occasion to fly on AF1 again, they will have all of your preferences already boarded. I'm sure Abramovich has equally personal service, but I doubt even NetJets could do it.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15728 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12166 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
It's a lie-flat bed in a private stateroom at the nose of a 747. I dunno about you, but I think that's pretty dope.

It's not actually a bed though. It's a pair of divans not unlike what most super midsize business jets offer. Not exactly big pimping.

The office is definitely more spacious than what most business jets this side of a Lineage can give you though.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
It's actually most of the aircraft and it's very generous in size. I agree that the photos I've seen of the interior show that the decor is muted and businesslike. I like it. Its very existence is opulent...but somehow not showy.

But like the actual White House, much of it is taken up by taken up by staff and Secret Service agents and not just a flying palace. The President doesn't actually have too much space to himself to do what he likes. You can either fight a war or be really, really comfortable in a Gulfstream, but not do both at the same time. The VC-25 can do both.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2884 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11996 times:
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Sorry, the VC-25 means? Thanks!


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11983 times:

The VC-25A is one of two Boeing B747-200B aircraft (heavily modified) used by the US Air Force and configured as presidential aircraft.

Air Force One is a call sign - not an aircraft. Any USAF aircraft with the president on board is "Air Force ONE". President George W. Bush flew on the VC-25A, the C-32 (B757) KCNW- KELD, the C-40 (B737) KCNW-KEFD and the C-20 (Gulfstream III or IV depending upon the individual aircraft used) KCNW-KDAL; as Air Force ONE at different times.

President Obama has flown to New York on a 'date' with his wife in the C-37 (Gulfstream V) and for vacations with his family on C-20 aircraft. All using the Air Force ONE call sign.

He also flew on a US Navy S-3 Viking - which used the callsign Navy ONE. (President Bush being the only president who has flown supersonic and who was ejection seat qualified during his time in the Guard).

The helicopter which flies the President from the White House to Andrews AFB uses the call sign Marine ONE when the President is aboard.

I'm not aware of a recent President flying on a US Army aircraft - but if he did - it would use the callsign Army ONE.

When President Nixon flew on a commercial United Airlines DC-10 aircraft from Washington DC to Los Angeles - the flight used the call sign Executive ONE.

The Air Force ONE call sign has been used by aircraft without the President aboard when necessary for security purposes - notably President Clinton's March 2000 flight into Pakistan. The call sign being used to divert attention of any spotters or possibly malicious persons away from the aircraft carrying the President.

The Wikipedia article on the VC-25 is pretty good - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_VC-25

This is a photo of the 'bedroom' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pr...ate_cabin_aboard_Air_Force_One.jpg

[Edited 2012-06-28 07:29:25]

[Edited 2012-06-28 07:32:51]

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19499 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 11857 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
It's not actually a bed though. It's a pair of divans not unlike what most super midsize business jets offer. Not exactly big pimping.

A bed is a soft, flat surface on which to sleep. The fact that it is a convertible doesn't make it "not a bed."

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
But like the actual White House, much of it is taken up by taken up by staff and Secret Service agents and not just a flying palace.

No, it's a flying work space with a bedroom. We agree it's not a palace, but it's still pretty dope.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15728 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 11837 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
The fact that it is a convertible doesn't make it "not a bed."

If you were selling the plane, you wouldn't advertise that as a bed.

This plane has a bed:
http://www.acmp.com/forsale/boeing/737-700igw-bbj/n2ts

Quote:
Office area has one VIP seat and a two-place No TTL berthing divan as well as a High / low table and 42-inch monitor. Stateroom has a queen bed with 42 inch monitor with a pass-through closet to master lavatory.

Not to say that you cannot be comfortable on a divan, but it's not a bed.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11709 times:

The USAF is invested into the C-32 airframe for multiple decades to come. Trust me, the 89th doesn't care about fuel economy.

User currently offline9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 11617 times:
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Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 7):
I'm not aware of a recent President flying on a US Army aircraft - but if he did - it would use the callsign Army ONE.

My understanding is that Obama flew on Army One when he went to Afghanistan recently.



Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4435 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 11600 times:

The VC25 is a specially modified B747-200.



There are two identical models.



Their primary purpose is to transport the President of the United States as Air Force One.



Did we really need another boring explanation that any Aircraft / Helicopter / Hovercraft / Hang Glider he is aboard, bla, bla, bla.



Not what Vc10er asked !



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19499 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11441 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 12):

Did we really need another boring explanation that any Aircraft / Helicopter / Hovercraft / Hang Glider he is aboard, bla, bla, bla.

No, not any. If he's aboard your private Cessna, then you are probably "Executive One."


User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4435 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11373 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
No, not any. If he's aboard your private Cessna, then you are probably "Executive One."

Wish I had a private Cessna Doc !



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 11252 times:

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
and what is the range of Hillary's 757?

Wikipedia says that the USAF C-32A's range is 5,650 NM unrefueled.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 10):
The USAF is invested into the C-32 airframe for multiple decades to come. Trust me, the 89th doesn't care about fuel economy.

Fortunately the 757 is still pretty efficient!  


User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2431 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 10746 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 7):
When President Nixon flew on a commercial United Airlines DC-10 aircraft from Washington DC to Los Angeles - the flight used the call sign Executive ONE.

Could someone in the know explain to me then why "Executive One" was a call sign used for the first lady when she flew into STL a couple years ago. And before anyone goes there, I know what I heard and who was on it. Actually took me by surprise when I heard it.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 10740 times:

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 16):
why "Executive One" was a call sign used for the first lady

"Executive ONE Foxtrot" is the call sign used for immediate family of the President while on a civilian aircraft. It may have been shortened to just Executive ONE.


User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2431 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10719 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 17):

Thanks for that. I can't recall them including the Foxtrot portion which they very well may have. The one thing I forgot to add was she was on one of the C-40's.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10391 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):

The stateroom in the nose has a pair of divans that can each be converted to a bed. I'm pretty sure the president does not have an actual bed, unless something has changed.

It's interesting to compare the VC-25 to the planes it replaced. Last weekend I went through the old AF-1 VC-137B "SAM 970" (the one used by Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon) at the Museum of Flight at BFI. The President's stateroom is about as big as the bathroom at my house. It has a couch and a desk with a chair. It also had a lot less seats in it than today's AF-1.

Amazing that aircraft was still used as recently as 1996.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
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