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C17 Lands At Wrong TPA Airport  
User currently offlineMainliner From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 410 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 16461 times:

http://www2.tbo.com/news/news/2012/j...lands-at-davis-islands--ar-437276/

Oops! According to Airnav, Runway 22 at TPF is just under 3600 ft. It was apparently going to Macdill AFB nearby.


Every flight counts.
62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMikeCT From United States of America, joined May 2008, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 16309 times:

Yikes. I try not to do too much armchair quarterbacking, but I'm not sure how you can mistake a 3600 X 100 runway for a 11,400 X 150 runway. Not to mention the size of the surrounding airport. Looking at a sectional, it looks like the runway at TPF lines up perfectly with the runway at MCF. Just about 5 1/2 miles to the northeast.

User currently offlinerjm777ual From UK - England, joined Nov 2011, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 16198 times:

Wow thats bizarre. Didn't they have the airport plugged into the FMS?


Greetings from Dulles!
User currently offlineMainliner From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 410 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16033 times:

It sounds bizarre, but it could easily happen to anyone flying to an area with which they aren't familiar. Maybe that crew isn't based at MacDill and had never been there before, and were thus unfamiliar with the area? Not sure. It probably didn't help that both airports have runways with the same configuration (4/22).


Every flight counts.
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3029 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15998 times:

Here's video of the landing: http://yfrog.com/mk7ekz

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7233 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15941 times:

Quoting MikeCT (Reply 1):
Yikes. I try not to do too much armchair quarterbacking, but I'm not sure how you can mistake a 3600 X 100 runway for a 11,400 X 150 runway.

How does a plane land at the wrong airport? Didn't an F9 or some other airline land at an AFB once instead of a commercial airport?

Also- can a C17 land on a 3,000ft runway safely?   



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineMainliner From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 410 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15943 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
Also- can a C17 land on a 3,000ft runway safely?   

Apparently it can  

The question is getting airborne again.



Every flight counts.
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2529 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15910 times:
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It's happend plenty of times. I recall a number of such incidents back in the 1980's involving commercial airliners landing at Macdill!

[Edited 2012-07-20 13:43:10]


"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineMikeCT From United States of America, joined May 2008, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15907 times:

There's not much that isn't on video these days.

It's pretty incredible how quickly they stopped the thing. I'm sure they briefed for a 11,000+ foot runway. If they noticed, even if on short final, the discrepancy, it's curious that they continued the landing.

I also noticed that TPF is currently NOTAM'ed closed. The picture in the link from the OP shows them not near the second runway. I wonder why they closed both.


User currently offlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 568 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15873 times:

Hey, they were just practicing their short field landing techniques.

User currently offlineMikeCT From United States of America, joined May 2008, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15874 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
Didn't an F9 or some other airline land at an AFB once instead of a commercial airport?

I would think the size and layout would at least be similar. The differences between these two airports, besides the runway alignment, are many.


User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15840 times:

The fiance of my wife's friend flies C-17s and he told me once he nearly landed on a POW compound in Iraq once by mistake. If some alert Marine in a guard tower didn't turn on a searchlight his plane would have been wrapped in barbed wire.

This does not surprise me.

edit: did it take off from the same airport?

[Edited 2012-07-20 13:45:51]


The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineMainliner From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 410 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15787 times:

Quoting MikeCT (Reply 8):
I also noticed that TPF is currently NOTAM'ed closed. The picture in the link from the OP shows them not near the second runway. I wonder why they closed both.

I believe the airport will remain closed until the aircraft is removed. I also wonder if the runway asphalt was damaged. If the two runways intersect, that would compromise the portion of the other runway at the intersection.



Every flight counts.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7233 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15762 times:

Quoting Mainliner (Reply 12):
I believe the airport will remain closed until the aircraft is removed. I also wonder if the runway asphalt was damaged. If the two runways intersect, that would compromise the portion of the other runway at the intersection.

HOW are they gonna remove it? If you saw the video you saw the guy filming was quite concerned about that.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently onlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4883 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15631 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
HOW are they gonna remove it?

Fly it off. The C17 is designed to operate from short runways. Thats the video I would like to see!


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7075 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15627 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
HOW are they gonna remove it?

Well I can think of 3 options:
1. If the runway is long enough for a lightly loaded C-17 to take off.
2. Take the wings off and put her on a truck.
3. Airport gets a free runway expansion courtesy of the US Air Force.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15582 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
Also- can a C17 land on a 3,000ft runway safely?
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
HOW are they gonna remove it?

The photo below is Altus AFB - the C-17 training base. The center runway by the yellow line is the 3,500 ft assualt strip. C-17 pilots have to land and takeoff from that strip several times before they complete their training. The C-17 is designed to takeoff and land on short runways. Of course it has to be loaded at less than MLW/ MTOW - but it can do it.

The only question is can the runway surface support the weight of the C-17 for takeoff.



Quoting MikeCT (Reply 1):
but I'm not sure how you can mistake a 3600 X 100 runway for a 11,400 X 150 runway. Not to mention the size of the surrounding airport.
Quoting rjm777ual (Reply 2):
Didn't they have the airport plugged into the FMS?
Quoting Mainliner (Reply 3):
but it could easily happen to anyone flying to an area with which they aren't familiar
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 7):
It's happend plenty of times

A pilot makes that mistake because visibility is poor and the intended landing airport isn't visible. He sees a runway and assumes that he is high, and puts down short. That is how the Northwest aircraft landed at Ellsworth AFB rather than Rapid City (RAP)

If the C-17 pilot could not see McDill - it could happen. It shouldn't - but as noted above - it has happened in the past.

I realize the video shows what looks like pretty good visibility - but it doesn't show if there was a haze on the water at the time.

Another complication for landing at McDill - not only is TPF about five miles short of Rwy 22 at McDill, but SPG is seven or so miles long of Rwy 22 at McDill - for a new to the area pilot - the line-up of three airports with runways almost aligned could be very confusing.



User currently offlineMikeCT From United States of America, joined May 2008, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15577 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 14):

They could have an issue flying it off if the runway can't handle it's weight, as Mainliner pointed out.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16828 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15577 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
Also- can a C17 land on a 3,000ft runway safely?

Yes, where I am (Joint Base MDL) there is a 3,500 x 100 C-17 assault strip used by C-17s from MDL, Dover and all over the Northeast for austere field training.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16828 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15568 times:

I just looked and the C-17 is indeed from MDL, so they have plenty of experience on 3,500ft runways.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15565 times:

Quoting MikeCT (Reply 17):
if the runway can't handle it's weight,

AirNav shows the runway is constructed for 20,000 lbs single wheel aircraft.

Also from the TPF page on AirNav

Quote:
- BE ALERT: MACDILL AFB LCTD 4 MILES SW.

From the McDill page on AirNav

Quote:
CAUTION: ON INST APCH TO MACDILL AFB RY 22, USE CAUTION DUR OVFT OF PETER O. KNIGHT ARPT DUE TO LGT ACFT TFC BLW APCH LEG 4 AND Mount Cook Airlines (New Zealand)">NM NE.

CAUTION: COMMERCIAL ACFT CROSS APCH TO MACDILL AFB ENROUTE TO TAMPA INTL ARPT AT AND ABV 2100 FT. ON INST APCH TO RY 04, USE CAUTION DUR OVFT OF ALBERT WHITTED ARPT DUE TO LGT TFC BLW APCH LEG 6 N-M SW. MAINT RY AND TWY CNTRLINE WHEN EXITING RY.

CAUTION: UNCTL VFR TFC IN VCNTY OF KMCF BLW 1200'. OFFL WX OBSN PT IS E-SE. OBSN MAY NOT ALWAYS BE REP OF COND OVER THE RY OR AT EITHER APCH END

MISC: FIRST 1000 FT RY 04-22 CONCRETE, MID 9420 FT ASPHALT.


User currently offlineflyingcello From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15544 times:

What do they say...never criticise a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.

There are numerous examples of aircraft landing at the wrong airport...here in Northern Ireland we've had a Ryanair flight land at Ballykelly (disused) instead of Eglinton, and a Loganair land at Langford Lodge instead of Belfast International. So it's not beyond experienced professional airmen to make a simple mistake. Seems that despite the electronics on the flight deck, the Mk 1 eyeball can still convince the brain that your aircraft isn't where the electronics say it is!


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7233 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15523 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 18):
Yes, where I am (Joint Base MDL) there is a 3,500 x 100 C-17 assault strip used by C-17s from MDL, Dover and all over the Northeast for austere field training.

I see, I wonder how heavy it was.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinejogales From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15348 times:

It just departed safely. My brother was there and said that police had the road at one end of the runway closed and the Coast Guard had the water at the other end blocked off.


Josh



-
User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5130 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 15229 times:

Nobody has yet mentioned that it was coming from Southeast Asia, flown by guys from McGuire. Who knows how long they had been awake. Fatigue could have been a factor.

Just looked at the arrival video. Unimpressive airmanship getting into that situation. Very impressive airmanship getting it stopped on that runway in time. Fast reactions saved a lot of lives.

Looking at the departure video, smooth as silk. I'm betting the crew that brought her in was sitting in a room somewhere being interrogated while senior Central Command brass hand-picked the crew to take her out, well aware of the scrutiny the maneuver would receive. Those guys made it look easy.

[Edited 2012-07-20 19:16:52]

25 Post contains links HaveBlue : Here's video I found on YouTube of it taking off this evening. My dad and I have taken off from that airport a few times in a Huey about 10 years ago.
26 n92r03 : Local news is reporting that soon after it landed there was a "rushed police escort" of either people or cargo or both. Anyone have any info on that?
27 Post contains images eksath : One source has General Mattis of the US Central Command on board when it landed.
28 HaveBlue : Doh! If people thought those pilots were in the hot seat before.. if this is true, can you imagine the repercussions?
29 BoeingVista : And she started her roll from beyond the piano keys and spooled up with brakes on.. clearly they were erring on the side of caution here as they prob
30 HaveBlue : I'm thinking the normal rules were ignored and the USAF wanted that bird out of there before more media attention had the time and chance to particip
31 XT6Wagon : I doubt it was all that "sporty" of a takeoff. Don't forget they only need enough fuel to make 5 miles + a couple of go arounds worth.
32 HaveBlue : What I meant was this.. do you think the C-17 could get up to V1 or even Vr speed, have a problem, and be able to stop if needed? I don't think there
33 BoeingVista : Yup, I doubt you could decelerate a 140 tonne C-17 from 120 Knots to zero in 1000 feet
34 HaveBlue : My thoughts exactly, thank you.
35 Post contains links Mortyman : Video of the landing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaqVan6vnIs Raw video of the take off taken from hjelicopter overhead: http://www2.tbo.com/news/n
36 cargotanker : You could, quite easily. I've done it many times. You can't think of a C-17 the way you think of a conventional large commercial aircraft. It can saf
37 rfields5421 : This is a combat assault transport designed to get into and out of short dangerous airfields quickly. The C-17 is not a C-5 or C-141 equivalent. Earl
38 BoeingVista : Ok, fair enough They also messed up while carrying a four star who happens to be the commander of CENTCOM.. home, his pot roast was probaly overdone
39 Post contains links and images Revelation : Yes, I've noticed that flying over the area? Just like those two Navy pilots who decided to dunk their helos into Lake Tahoe? It didn't end well for
40 Post contains links and images Revelation : In case it's not too clear where Thule is, it's in Northern Greenland: I bet they get plenty of time to enjoy the natural beauty: If they don't get we
41 cargotanker : Something more likely these days is a Predator to Cannon AFB, New Mexico.
42 ZANL188 : Central Command? Nope, Air Mobility Command. Further, the C-17 didn't stay there long, AMC would have to really hussle to get a replacement crew down
43 Post contains links Revelation : Thanks for the update, but Cannon AFB seems to be paradise compared to Thule! http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USNM0070
44 sprout5199 : Nope, new jobs are short field landing instructors. Still a BIG screw up. A forgivable one though. They had the smarts to put the screw up out of the
45 135mech : It was from McGuire in New Jersey... That's a McGuire tail flash, and it's one of the newer models.
46 135mech : They are impressive when they are taking off short-field, and probably "light" on fuel etc...also.[Edited 2012-07-21 18:40:20]
47 135mech : lol... It's basically in a part of NM that's just an extension of LOVELY West Texas! YUCK! HAHA
48 RIXrat : Speaking of Thule AB, been there and done that. At the time as a journalist, I covered the B52 crash there with six nuke bombs. Cold as hell with whit
49 Post contains links rfields5421 : MDL is "Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst" - http://www.jointbasemdl.af.mil/ McGuire AFB ended when JB MDL was created on 1 Oct 2009. The assualt trai
50 JBirdAV8r : That is the definition of V1. It varies with runway length. Shorter runway = lower V1, while Vr stays basically the same. No rules would have had to
51 ZANL188 : In my experience with the C-17 operating out of short fields (dirt strips too) like this is normal ops. It has high lift devices unlike ANY on a comm
52 jogales : Central Command is also located at MacDill, and the plane was evidently carrying some higher ups. Still, only KC-135s are based at MacDill, who knows
53 bond007 : How can landing at the wrong airport ever be forgivable?? It's not remotely similar to MacDill (even though runways are same direction), and presumab
54 checksixx : Fortunately this turned out to not be a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I'm sure they will receive re-training on situational awareness befor
55 rc135x : I believe the runways at Macon, GA, and Robins AFB, GA, are aligned and only a few miles apart. I seem to recall a Zantop Electra landing at the wrong
56 SLCGuy : While watching the videos of this, some on youtube, I saw a comment that made perfect sense (believe it or not, a random youtube veiwer realized what
57 XT6Wagon : It was landed safely. It was landed without damage It was landed at an airport. It wasn't landed at the correct airport. So they got it 3/4s right. I
58 Post contains images moose135 : With the cutbacks in air show funding, the Air Force has decided to perform assault landing demos at random airfields to demonstrate the capabilities
59 sprout5199 : Do you fly? A visual approach to an unfamiliar runway, MCF 150'x11421 TPF 100'x3580 width is close, length is bad, however when approaching a "wide"
60 Post contains images rcair1 : Okay - majic of Google Earth. You tell me. About 1 mile final - 1200ft AGL. Remember - you are tired, maybe hazy. Oh - and it's moving and you are not
61 par13del : I would like to think that in this day and age landing a C-17 enroute from the Far East should be more than just visual. We have had incidents where p
62 flightsimer : Best answer so far... It took me 8 months of flying before I ever noticed that the army reserve base was right next to my airports runway. I never kn
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