rampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2851 posts, RR: 7 Posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7084 times:
I've just discovered this documentary, the entire 47 minutes is available (at least for now) on YouTube. I won't hot-link it (does doing so viiolate a rule?), but easy enough to find.
Fascinating program!
I know there's a book on the mission, which I still need to read, Operation Black Buck. (This was in the 1982 Falklands war, the bombing of the runway at Port Stanley with nearly retired Avro Vulcans, in order to render the runways useless to the Argentine air forces). Wasn't aware of this documentary. Does anyone know where it showed originally?
NBGSkyGod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 597 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6766 times:
Watched it this morning, very very interesting. If I had to fathom a guess as to its airing, I would say sometime around May/April, near the 30th anniversary.
It was made recently since you could see the RAF Global Expresses in the background of one of the shots.
[Edited 2012-09-05 16:42:40]
"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
thomil13FRA From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 80 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6523 times:
I have the documentary in my Youtube Favourites, together with all nine episodes of HMS Ark Royal, which are quite interesting themselves.
By the way, the documentary is actually based on Rowland Whites Book Vulcan 607, which gives even more details. It is well worth reading, I can highly recommend it.
flyingcello From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 104 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5922 times:
Have had the privilege of hearing Peter Taylor give a talk on Black Buck...it was an incredible mission, something that would never pass a risk assessment! Between recovering refueling probes from scrap yards, stealing INS systems from VC-10s, and calculating fuel plans involving multiple buddy-buddy exercises with 16 (IIRC) Victors...
It was a brilliant military achievement, maybe not so much because of the physical damage inflicted, but moreso because it sent a psychological message too...we can reach you! Sadly, that capability doesn't exist today...
LMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5877 times:
Quoting rampart (Thread starter): I've just discovered this documentary, the entire 47 minutes is available (at least for now) on YouTube. I won't hot-link it (does doing so viiolate a rule?), but easy enough to find.
Watched the video last month, outstanding piece of work. One part that caught my attention was when one of the aircrew mentioned having former Bomber Command personel tour their Vulcans saying that some of the equipment was not much different from what they used.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12707 posts, RR: 80 Reply 8, posted (8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5798 times:
Quoting flyingcello (Reply 6): Sadly, that capability doesn't exist today...
No, but the RN did not have Tomahawk missiles on their subs in 1982, they've been used in 4 separate missions since 1999. Only the United States and possibly Israel also have this ability.
Quoting LMP737 (Reply 7): Watched the video last month, outstanding piece of work. One part that caught my attention was when one of the aircrew mentioned having former Bomber Command personel tour their Vulcans saying that some of the equipment was not much different from what they used.
The H2S mapping radar was taken from Lancaster and Halifax bombers, for the V-Force.
I guess when the task was to drop a nuke on a Soviet city, that still did the job.
Plus the then state of the art ECM systems fitted to the MK.2 Vulcan and Victor, was not only 20 years old by 1982, it was optimised against Soviet systems of that era.
Hence the bolting of an ALQ-101, US supplied for the RAF Buccaneer force, on a pylon quickly fabricated, to attachments originally intended for the carriage of the US Skybolt missile. The final batch of these Vulcans were on the line before that system was cancelled.
LMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5649 times:
What's interesting about the Vulcan if were to gut the inside and update it with new engines, FBW controls, modern avionics and change the design of the vertical you would never know the original design was from the early fifties.
thomil13FRA From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 80 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5508 times:
Quoting L-188 (Reply 10): A british verion of, " Flight of Old Dog"?
It definitely has the same ring to it, though the Vulcan did have the "underdog"-factor to contend with as well. Plus, the Black Buck missions, they later repeated the raid, actually took place, whereas Flight of the Old Dog was fictional. Both are fascinating material, however for me, the Brits come out ahead.
EagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1616 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (7 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4673 times:
Quoting thomil13FRA (Reply 3): By the way, the documentary is actually based on Rowland Whites Book Vulcan 607, which gives even more details. It is well worth reading, I can highly recommend it.
Currently about 50% thought it..... fascinating read. Lots of little nuggets of info on the personalities and tricks they used to get the Vulcans/Victors ready for the mission. (using home beer brewing gadget to achieve a pressure proof seal on the newly fabricated pylons for the Vulcans)
I think my favourite anecdote so far is the Naval Attache in the USA; he hears that the Argentines have stopped ships supplying the island garrison as Royal Navy subs have been spotted in the area, however he knows that the HMS Splendid and HMS Spartan are still at least 24 hours away and wonders about this. Later at a reception he is passed by the Soviet Naval attache who without stopping whispers "I hope our submarines are helping out"
HaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2069 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (7 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4586 times:
Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 12): I think my favourite anecdote so far is the Naval Attache in the USA; he hears that the Argentines have stopped ships supplying the island garrison as Royal Navy subs have been spotted in the area, however he knows that the HMS Splendid and HMS Spartan are still at least 24 hours away and wonders about this. Later at a reception he is passed by the Soviet Naval attache who without stopping whispers "I hope our submarines are helping out"
BilgeRat From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 174 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (7 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3998 times:
Quoting flyingcello (Reply 6): Sadly, that capability doesn't exist today...
It most certainly does exist, albeit in a different form - Tomahawks launched from nuclear submarines. A lot more accurate and far less risky than sending a lone bomber all the way down there with a squadron of tankers in support!
Edit - sorry just realised GDB already pointed out the UK has Tomahawk missiles!
As for the Rowland White book, yes it is an excellent read. I especially liked how he describes subsequent raids on Stanley where Vulcans performed SEAD using Shrike missiles - the pylons and wiring being retrofitted to the Vulcans rather quickly! He describes one sortie where the Vulcan was loitering waiting for a target but the Argentines refused to light up their radars and provide a target. The enterprising Vulcan pilot then slowed right down, made a landing approach to Stanley Airport, even lowering his undercarriage. The Argentine AAA radar lit up and he quickly got a missile away and took them out.
Rowland White has also written another two books - Phoenix Squadron and Storm Front. I've got all three books in hardback and on my Kindle for good measure.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12707 posts, RR: 80 Reply 18, posted (7 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3934 times:
Quoting BilgeRat (Reply 17): Rowland White has also written another two books - Phoenix Squadron and Storm Front. I've got all three books in hardback
Me too! In fact Rowland White's books are the only ones which I don't wait for the paperback edition!
(I could mention Kindle but techno-dinosaur me spent a period thinking that was a white chocolate egg, with a toy inside, for kids!)
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