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"XM607 Falklands Most Daring Raid"  
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3067 posts, RR: 7
Posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8174 times:

I've just discovered this documentary, the entire 47 minutes is available (at least for now) on YouTube. I won't hot-link it (does doing so viiolate a rule?), but easy enough to find.

Fascinating program!

I know there's a book on the mission, which I still need to read, Operation Black Buck. (This was in the 1982 Falklands war, the bombing of the runway at Port Stanley with nearly retired Avro Vulcans, in order to render the runways useless to the Argentine air forces). Wasn't aware of this documentary. Does anyone know where it showed originally?

-Rampart

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineNBGSkyGod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 730 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7856 times:

Watched it this morning, very very interesting. If I had to fathom a guess as to its airing, I would say sometime around May/April, near the 30th anniversary.

It was made recently since you could see the RAF Global Expresses in the background of one of the shots.

[Edited 2012-09-05 16:42:40]


"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7743 times:

Quoting rampart (Thread starter):
I know there's a book on the mission, which I still need to read, Operation Black Buck.

Please do - it's incredibly interesting. Well worth the read. They don't print it any more so copies can be quite expensive.


User currently offlinethomil13FRA From Ireland, joined Jul 2010, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7613 times:
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I have the documentary in my Youtube Favourites, together with all nine episodes of HMS Ark Royal, which are quite interesting themselves.
By the way, the documentary is actually based on Rowland Whites Book Vulcan 607, which gives even more details. It is well worth reading, I can highly recommend it.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8216 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7607 times:

Quoting thomil13FRA (Reply 3):
Rowland Whites Book Vulcan 607, which gives even more details. It is well worth reading, I can highly recommend it.

Seconded.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13048 posts, RR: 78
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7397 times:

Channel 4 here showed this doc back in April and it seems to have survived on 'that video sharing channel' for months now.

I posted about the definitive book on this raid back in 2006;

Vulcan 607 - A Very Highly Recommended Book (by GDB Jul 13 2006 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)

I agree, it is a good doc and an even better book.


User currently offlineflyingcello From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7012 times:

Have had the privilege of hearing Peter Taylor give a talk on Black Buck...it was an incredible mission, something that would never pass a risk assessment! Between recovering refueling probes from scrap yards, stealing INS systems from VC-10s, and calculating fuel plans involving multiple buddy-buddy exercises with 16 (IIRC) Victors...

It was a brilliant military achievement, maybe not so much because of the physical damage inflicted, but moreso because it sent a psychological message too...we can reach you! Sadly, that capability doesn't exist today...


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6967 times:

Quoting rampart (Thread starter):
I've just discovered this documentary, the entire 47 minutes is available (at least for now) on YouTube. I won't hot-link it (does doing so viiolate a rule?), but easy enough to find.

Watched the video last month, outstanding piece of work. One part that caught my attention was when one of the aircrew mentioned having former Bomber Command personel tour their Vulcans saying that some of the equipment was not much different from what they used.  


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13048 posts, RR: 78
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6888 times:

Quoting flyingcello (Reply 6):
Sadly, that capability doesn't exist today...

No, but the RN did not have Tomahawk missiles on their subs in 1982, they've been used in 4 separate missions since 1999. Only the United States and possibly Israel also have this ability.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 7):
Watched the video last month, outstanding piece of work. One part that caught my attention was when one of the aircrew mentioned having former Bomber Command personel tour their Vulcans saying that some of the equipment was not much different from what they used.  

The H2S mapping radar was taken from Lancaster and Halifax bombers, for the V-Force.
I guess when the task was to drop a nuke on a Soviet city, that still did the job.

Plus the then state of the art ECM systems fitted to the MK.2 Vulcan and Victor, was not only 20 years old by 1982, it was optimised against Soviet systems of that era.
Hence the bolting of an ALQ-101, US supplied for the RAF Buccaneer force, on a pylon quickly fabricated, to attachments originally intended for the carriage of the US Skybolt missile. The final batch of these Vulcans were on the line before that system was cancelled.


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6739 times:

What's interesting about the Vulcan if were to gut the inside and update it with new engines, FBW controls, modern avionics and change the design of the vertical you would never know the original design was from the early fifties.

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6733 times:

A british verion of, " Flight of Old Dog"?


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinethomil13FRA From Ireland, joined Jul 2010, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6598 times:
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Quoting L-188 (Reply 10):
A british verion of, " Flight of Old Dog"?

It definitely has the same ring to it, though the Vulcan did have the "underdog"-factor to contend with as well. Plus, the Black Buck missions, they later repeated the raid, actually took place, whereas Flight of the Old Dog was fictional. Both are fascinating material, however for me, the Brits come out ahead.


User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1745 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5763 times:
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Quoting thomil13FRA (Reply 3):
By the way, the documentary is actually based on Rowland Whites Book Vulcan 607, which gives even more details. It is well worth reading, I can highly recommend it.

Currently about 50% thought it..... fascinating read. Lots of little nuggets of info on the personalities and tricks they used to get the Vulcans/Victors ready for the mission. (using home beer brewing gadget to achieve a pressure proof seal on the newly fabricated pylons for the Vulcans)

I think my favourite anecdote so far is the Naval Attache in the USA; he hears that the Argentines have stopped ships supplying the island garrison as Royal Navy subs have been spotted in the area, however he knows that the HMS Splendid and HMS Spartan are still at least 24 hours away and wonders about this. Later at a reception he is passed by the Soviet Naval attache who without stopping whispers "I hope our submarines are helping out"


User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2090 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5676 times:

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 12):
I think my favourite anecdote so far is the Naval Attache in the USA; he hears that the Argentines have stopped ships supplying the island garrison as Royal Navy subs have been spotted in the area, however he knows that the HMS Splendid and HMS Spartan are still at least 24 hours away and wonders about this. Later at a reception he is passed by the Soviet Naval attache who without stopping whispers "I hope our submarines are helping out"

That is awesome! Thanks for sharing.



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5568 times:

Actually thomil13FRA I was referencing LMP737's reworking of a modern Vulcan not the actual mission.

eagleBoy: Awsome story



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1745 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5150 times:
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Just for info......Vulcan 607 by Rowland White is available on amazon as a kindle ebook for $10.
Well worth it, finished it yesterday.

Reading it, you realise how close they were to failure and/or disaster several times on the first mission.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10746 posts, RR: 38
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5125 times:

I found the documentary on Youtube. Thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40knj0qg_Us

I have not had time to see it yet but it is placed very high on my list.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineBilgeRat From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 202 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5088 times:

Quoting flyingcello (Reply 6):
Sadly, that capability doesn't exist today...

It most certainly does exist, albeit in a different form - Tomahawks launched from nuclear submarines. A lot more accurate and far less risky than sending a lone bomber all the way down there with a squadron of tankers in support!

Edit - sorry just realised GDB already pointed out the UK has Tomahawk missiles!

As for the Rowland White book, yes it is an excellent read. I especially liked how he describes subsequent raids on Stanley where Vulcans performed SEAD using Shrike missiles - the pylons and wiring being retrofitted to the Vulcans rather quickly! He describes one sortie where the Vulcan was loitering waiting for a target but the Argentines refused to light up their radars and provide a target. The enterprising Vulcan pilot then slowed right down, made a landing approach to Stanley Airport, even lowering his undercarriage. The Argentine AAA radar lit up and he quickly got a missile away and took them out.

Rowland White has also written another two books - Phoenix Squadron and Storm Front. I've got all three books in hardback and on my Kindle for good measure.

[Edited 2012-10-02 06:36:41]

User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13048 posts, RR: 78
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5024 times:

Quoting BilgeRat (Reply 17):
Rowland White has also written another two books - Phoenix Squadron and Storm Front. I've got all three books in hardback

Me too! In fact Rowland White's books are the only ones which I don't wait for the paperback edition!
(I could mention Kindle but techno-dinosaur me spent a period thinking that was a white chocolate egg, with a toy inside, for kids!)


User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1745 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4854 times:
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Oh....other 2 books just purchased......

Shame the Kindle is muck for maps and diagrams. But I am familiar with the geography at this stage


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4308 times:

Arrrghh!!!!!

Amazon wont sell Rhe kindle version of Phoniex Squadron or Vulcan 607 in the US



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
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