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Nasa 747  
User currently offlinecrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1899 posts, RR: 5
Posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6643 times:

Living here in Florida a short distance from Kennedy Space Center...what is the fate of the NASA 747 after this weeks final delivery flight of Endeavour to California??? I did a search and couldnt find anything so sorry if its been discussed before...

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6627 times:

Both N905NA and N911NA will be parted out for the SOFIA observatory. SOFIA is a 747SP whose cargo doors open in flight exposing a telescope. Pretty cool.


My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlinecrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1899 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6592 times:

Sad... it would have been nice to park it somewhere intact and preserve it like at Udvar Hazy in D.C. and yes Im familiar with the SOFIA SP..thanks for the update

User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6365 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 1):
Both N905NA and N911NA will be parted out for the SOFIA observatory. SOFIA is a 747SP whose cargo doors open in flight exposing a telescope. Pretty cool.

Has that been confirmed that 905 will also be parted out? The last I had read it was only going to be 911 which ferried to PMD quite a while ago, I saw it last time I was at LA Center.

FX1816


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6305 times:

Parted out for SOFIA means they will be scrapped to keep the 747SP flying? or fly for SOFIA?

User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6174 times:

As famous and important as these two 747s are, this is the kind of fate that they meet? An eternity of being parted out?? These planes should go into museums

User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6108 times:

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 3):
Has that been confirmed that 905 will also be parted out?

Yes. http://www.nasa.gov/topics/nasalife/features/shuttle_museum.html

Quoting 777way (Reply 4):
Parted out for SOFIA means they will be scrapped to keep the 747SP flying? or fly for SOFIA?

Correct, parted out and scrapped to keep SOFIA SP flying.



My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4906 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6089 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 5):
These planes should go into museums

Totally agree... Historical aircraft belong in a museum preserved not scrapped... Very sad...

EK413



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User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3507 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5785 times:
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Quoting EK413 (Reply 7):
Totally agree... Historical aircraft belong in a museum preserved not scrapped


there continues to be a problem with preservation and maintenance costs associated with all this stuff people want to save... many end up being scrapped because of no money and only a handful of broke admirers.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5728 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 8):
there continues to be a problem with preservation and maintenance costs associated with all this stuff people want to save... many end up being scrapped because of no money and only a handful of broke admirers.

Why not send them off to a foreign country to be saved. Thinking of the UK for example. They have restored XH558 the Avro Vulcan back to flight. They could very well keep and maintain one of the 747s. Don't have to give them away. Just send them on loan contract.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5650 times:

I don't see why one couldn't go to Udvar Hazy and the other maybe to Wright Patterson Air Force Museum. It is an insult to those planes and the men who flew those missions to have them end up parted out or made into beer cans.

User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3507 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5639 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):
Why not send them off to a foreign country to be saved.



Do you see any foreign countries begging for these planes.. basically heavily modified empty fuselages? Do you see anyone with a few spare millions wanting one on their lawn.. ?

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 10):
It is an insult to those planes and the men who flew those missions to have them end up parted out or made into beer cans.


What is this insult garbage... we scrap planes (commercial and military) every day and replace them with better. These are no different and I'm sure the men that flew them are not going to therapy because they'll be scrapped. They're probably doubling their wages flying something newer.

there is a limit to saving junk, if public and private museums don't want these, why should the taxpayer keep them around. Museums pick what has a large draw. These two don't have that.


User currently onlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7566 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5584 times:

I note that you refer to XH558, but that has been an incredibly hand to mouth operation.

User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5561 times:

If they scrap the SCAs or take them apart they should put some spare parts on auction - would be a good idea - maybe funds for an aviation charity of sorts - we could buy off a piece or two of the aircraft(s) on the cheap for memories.

     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineboeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1026 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5534 times:

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 3):
The last I had read it was only going to be 911 which ferried to PMD quite a while ago, I saw it last time I was at LA Center.

Rumor has it the 911 is going to be put out at Joe Davies Airpark on display which is right outside the gate from Dryden on in Palmdale. The rumor goes on to say they will use parts from 911 to keep SOFIA flying but they will try to replace the pulled parts with bad SOFIA parts. But like I said just rumors. But got this from someone that has been spot on lots of times.

David



Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlineeksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1300 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5528 times:
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ARTICLE EDITOR

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 14):
The rumor goes on to say they will use parts from 911 to keep SOFIA flying but they will try to replace the pulled parts with bad SOFIA parts. But like I said just rumors. But got this from someone that has been spot on lots of times.
Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 6):
Correct, parted out and scrapped to keep SOFIA SP flying.
Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 5):
An eternity of being parted out?? These planes should go into museums
Quoting 777way (Reply 4):
Parted out for SOFIA means they will be scrapped to keep the 747SP flying? or fly for SOFIA?
Quoting FX1816 (Reply 3):
Has that been confirmed that 905 will also be parted out? The last I had read it was only going to be 911 which ferried to PMD quite a while ago, I saw it last time I was at LA Center.
Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 1):
Both N905NA and N911NA will be parted out for the SOFIA observatory. SOFIA is a 747SP whose cargo doors open in flight exposing a telescope. Pretty cool.

Lets set the record straight. There is a lot of misinterpretation of the facts and news releases.

1. Both aircraft will be transferred to the SOFIA program.
2. 911 (ex JAL) has already been transferred.It had the most hours of the two SCA due to her high use as a JAL aircraft compared to the N905NA. It has approximately three times what 905 has.
3. 911 will be parted out to support the SOFIA program etc.
4. 905 will be transferred over to SOFIA at the end of her ferry flight needs..which seems to be days away.
5. 905 is currently planned to be used to maintain the flight proficiency of the NASA 747SP SOFIA aircraft. This reduces the risk of the highly instrumented and highly expensive and sensitive NASA 747SP being used for flight proficiency. It also would stop interruptions of the science work being performed on the aircraft.
6. Eventually, 905 may also be used as a parts aircraft if budgets,requirements change i.e. it is deemed cheaper to send the SOFIA pilots to a commercial operator to keep their proficiency up etc.

This info is a summary of internal conversations within NASA and my interaction with the crew of the SCAs.

I hope that clears the fog up a bit.



World Wide Aerospace Photography
User currently onlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7566 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5481 times:

Would SOFIA pilots need to do proficiency flights on a B747 Classis, or would a B747-400 suffice?.

User currently offlineeksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1300 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5433 times:
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ARTICLE EDITOR

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 16):
Would SOFIA pilots need to do proficiency flights on a B747 Classis, or would a B747-400 suffice?.

I am not sure but I will tell the 905 cockpit is old school. There is even a flight engineer. I assume the 747 SP is the same so commonality wise, it would probably have to be a classic.



World Wide Aerospace Photography
User currently onlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7566 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5406 times:

I suspect that within a few years, that the number of flyable Classics will be rather limited.

User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5198 times:
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Quoting eksath (Reply 15):
5. 905 is currently planned to be used to maintain the flight proficiency of the NASA 747SP SOFIA aircraft. This reduces the risk of the highly instrumented and highly expensive and sensitive NASA 747SP being used for flight proficiency. It also would stop interruptions of the science work being performed on the aircraft.
6. Eventually, 905 may also be used as a parts aircraft if budgets,requirements change i.e. it is deemed cheaper to send the SOFIA pilots to a commercial operator to keep their proficiency up etc.

Wasn't SOFIA flight operations contracted out to Evergreen?



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User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2433 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5069 times:

Although I agree that SOFIA should have the parts availability, I think at least 905 should be preserved. The plans are in place and done I know, but I think Enterprise and 905 should have been preserved together as these two crafts had significant tests together with the drop tests.


Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5061 times:
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Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 20):
Although I agree that SOFIA should have the parts availability, I think at least 905 should be preserved. The plans are in place and done I know, but I think Enterprise and 905 should have been preserved together as these two crafts had significant tests together with the drop tests.


How would you pay for it? Preserving a 747 would cost a museum a significant sum, plus the draw would not be the 747 but the orbiter - so any museum would have to preserve the 747/orbiter combo for the same amount just the orbiter would bring in, in which case why incur the added expense of the 747.

Just look at the problems the Museum of Flight is having with their airpark. N7470 is certainly as worthy of preservation as the SCA moreso in fact. Yet it languishes outdoors with parts missing.



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User currently offlineOroka From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 911 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5019 times:

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 20):
The plans are in place and done I know, but I think Enterprise and 905 should have been preserved together as these two crafts had significant tests together with the drop tests.

Enterprise is still a real shuttle and should be up close for viewing. Pathfinder should be mounted for display. No one will ever get that close to it, so why put a real shuttle way up where it is hard to see?


User currently offlineeksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1300 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4736 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
ARTICLE EDITOR

I regret to inform you that N905NA will not fly again. The plan to keep her status was attractive but failed to get traction due to budgetary reasons. This is confirmed by the flight crew too.

She will be scavenged for parts for SOFIA. She will live via SOFIA.

Eventually, will end up as a gate guard/display.

[Edited 2012-09-25 12:19:29]


World Wide Aerospace Photography
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2433 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4683 times:

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 21):
How would you pay for it?

Same way other "questionable" programs are funded.

Quoting Oroka (Reply 22):

Good point. I wasn't thinking of just having the pair standing isolated. Have one side with no obstructions. The other side with scaffolding to both the shuttle and 747 for internal access.

Guys, I was just thinking from the fantasy / daydreaming strandpoint. Like I said, everything is in stone now. As much as we A.netters would like to think are posts would make a difference in this matter, reality smacks most of us in the face. After all, some out there still question why the 757 line can't be started up again!   

Regards.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
25 cedarjet : I think there's only about 5,000 people in the whole of the USA (pop > 300 million) who would be willing to drive more than 10 mi out of their way
26 Post contains images MadameConcorde : Any idea who/where we can contact to get a small piece of scrapped SCA? I would really like to add one of these to my collection of flown Concorde eng
27 eksath : She is not being scrapped. Her parts will be picked-as needed- to support SOFIA just like N911NA. She remains property of the US Gov.
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