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RE: Shuttle Enterprise Exposed To Hurricane Sandy  
User currently offlinefsnuffer From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 252 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9711 times:

Foxnews just had pictures showing the protective dome around Enterprise was ripped apart exposing the shuttle to the weather.

[Edited 2012-10-30 06:36:47]

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineflipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9684 times:
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Quoting fsnuffer (Thread starter):

It's had worse, I wouldn't worry.

Fred


User currently offlineeksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1317 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9666 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Anybody have screen captures of this? I would like to see the extent of the damage so far. thanks

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 1):
It's had worse, I wouldn't worry.

When would that be? the SCA avoided bad weather when she flew and the ALT tests were done in good weather. She may have got rained upon on the test stand or at the fit check at the pad. Not sure if she has gone through a tropical storm like this before.



World Wide Aerospace Photography
User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2195 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9639 times:

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 1):
It's had worse, I wouldn't worry.

I would . . . one of my professor back in my college day worked on the space shuttle and showed us a space shuttle tile.

Awfully light and fluffy. These ceramic tiles feels more like hard foam and seems to me won't be able to handle debris impact due to wind too well.

Of course, the shuttle isn't flying any more, so I guess you can replace any damaged tiles with replicas 

bt



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1626 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9639 times:

Here's a CNN picture of it. http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-867881?hpt=hp_bn1

I hope that NASA goes back and takes Enterprise and puts it in a more secure location. The idea of putting it on a boat in a hurricane prone spot, was very stupid to me.


-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9620 times:

Still wouldnt have happened if they had put her in houston ehere she belongs


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2401 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9468 times:

Amazing. Millions of people are without power, thousands have had their homes destroyed, the subways are flooded, and it's going to take months to get back to any semblence of order, and people are whining about some possible damage to the space shuttle? This was a storm of historic proportions. Do you really think that if a storm of this magnitude hit Houston - you know, right on the Gulf of Mexico - there wouldn't have been an equal chance of damage?
  



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1626 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9461 times:

Quoting moose135 (Reply 6):
Do you really think that if a storm of this magnitude hit Houston - you know, right on the Gulf of Mexico - there wouldn't have been an equal chance of damage?

No, because Houston would have done the proper thing and had a building built prior to the shuttle arriving, rather than putting it in a tent waiting for a building to get built.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5209 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9441 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 5):
Still wouldnt have happened if they had put her in houston ehere she belongs

Exactly

Quoting moose135 (Reply 6):
Do you really think that if a storm of this magnitude hit Houston - you know, right on the Gulf of Mexico - there wouldn't have been an equal chance of damage?

First of all - Storms of greater magnitude have hit Houston...so what are you talking about. Houston is more storm ready than NYC...PERIOD. Even down here we are prone to floods and inundation, but...as DiamondFlyer has said below...

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 7):
No, because Houston would have done the proper thing and had a building built prior to the shuttle arriving, rather than putting it in a tent waiting for a building to get built.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2195 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9431 times:

Here in Seattle we have an awesome building to hold the Shuttle Trainer. It has a window facade so you can see it from the sidewalk. Check out Google Street View

Our building probably can't handle higher category hurricanes, but we don't get those around here. But if Mt. Rainier blows and a wall of mud comes down the Duwamish, it may not fare as well. Although the bend in the river may protect it a little.


bt



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2401 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9378 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 8):
First of all - Storms of greater magnitude have hit Houston...so what are you talking about.

You have no idea what hit the metropolitan area the past two days, no idea.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlinesovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2648 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9357 times:

Quoting eksath (Reply 2):
When would that be? the SCA avoided bad weather when she flew and the ALT tests were done in good weather.

Can you explain why this is? From what I have heard (may be false) over the years launches have been scrubbed merely due to the presence of clouds. It seems NASA was always super paranoid about the weather. What's the big deal if there's some clouds or rain? A vessel made to take the punishment of orbit and re-entry can't go through some rain? It always seemed silly to me, since the launch itself only spends about 2 minutes within the "weather zone".


User currently offlineeksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1317 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9338 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
ARTICLE EDITOR

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 11):
Can you explain why this is? From what I have heard (may be false) over the years launches have been scrubbed merely due to the presence of clouds.

This is true and there is valid reason for it. See my answer below.

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 11):
It seems NASA was always super paranoid about the weather.

Because they had "go fever" for Apollo and it almost cost the program.

Apollo 12 took two lightning strikes that knocked out the fuel cells due to the circuit breakers. This put the rocket on batteries. A second strike about 1 minute later knocked out the "8 ball". I cannot do justice to this detailed description:

http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oce/appe...es/volume2/AA_2-11_SF_history.html

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 11):
What's the big deal if there's some clouds or rain?

On the shuttle, the thermal protection system can be damaged by rain. i.e. a supersonic or subsonic orbiter flying through rain causes damage to the tiles due to physical impact. Even the SCA deviates around rain. Also, the Normax blankets absorb water and that effects the CG. AND ALSO, water can collect in the aft compartment further effecting the CG.

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 11):
A vessel made to take the punishment of orbit and re-entry can't go through some rain? It always seemed silly to me, since the launch itself only spends about 2 minutes within the "weather zone".

See my answers above. Hope that clears it up.



World Wide Aerospace Photography
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2401 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9295 times:

Statement from the Intrepid Museum:

Quote:
The rise in the Hudson River due to Hurricane Sandy caused flooding and damage to Pier 86. The pier was designed to withstand the 100 year storm. However, the unprecedented levels of water flooded the main electrical transformers and both of our backup generators. As a result, power issues caused the Space Shuttle pavilion to deflate. The shuttle sustained only minor damage.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 3013 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9258 times:

A closer image:
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1118/tumblrmcq1a4ejtg1rk5eu3.jpg


There seems to be a sizable chunk of the tail missing.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2124 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9235 times:

Quoting eksath (Reply 12):
I cannot do justice to this detailed description:

http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oce/appe....html

I read a lot of that, not all, but it was a great read. Thanks!



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlinechecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9133 times:

Minor damage...certainly nothing worth a thread this long about. There were many reasons launches and landings were scrubbed due to weather (rain/clouds)...google it. Been on the net for many many years.

User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5209 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9098 times:

Quoting moose135 (Reply 10):
You have no idea what hit the metropolitan area the past two days, no idea.

No...but I know Ike, Allison, and Alicia. So I can empathize with the Northeast from a weather standpoint. As far as Enterprise is concerned NY can kiss my... They damaged the Shuttle moving it to Intrepid, and now its thought bubble has collapsed on it further damaging it.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2195 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9084 times:

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 11):
can't go through some rain?

Ever experienced rain drops at Mach 1?  
Quoting drerx7 (Reply 17):
They damaged the Shuttle moving it to Intrepid, and now its thought bubble has collapsed on it further damaging it.

Hey, if you are going to live in New York, you have to toughen up a little. The Intrepid have now passed it's trial by fire and truly be called a New Yorker   

bt



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8816 times:

There is also this picture that shows a close-up view of the tail fin damage
(License Attribution Noncommercial Some rights reserved by EagleEyez)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eagleey...8139361895/sizes/k/in/photostream/

    Wow!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1915 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8271 times:
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Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 4):
I hope that NASA goes back and takes Enterprise and puts it in a more secure location. The idea of putting it on a boat in a hurricane prone spot, was very stupid to me.

Never heard NYC described as a 'hurricane prone spot' before...........


User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1626 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8271 times:

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 21):
Never heard NYC described as a 'hurricane prone spot' before...........

Really? For years, there have been TV shows on how much more prone to hurricane damage NYC is, due to a number of factors. One of the biggest being the geography which basically forces water into the harbor, as it sits right at the corner of the coast, so to speak.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2124 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8271 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 22):
Really? For years, there have been TV shows on how much more prone to hurricane damage NYC is, due to a number of factors. One of the biggest being the geography which basically forces water into the harbor, as it sits right at the corner of the coast, so to speak.

As a lifelong Florida resident I assure you NY is not a 'hurricane prone' spot. It may very well be more sensitive to hurricane damages, not sure about that, but almost all hurricanes make a bee line from Africa to Floridas coast. Very few of them draw the energy needed to sustain them from the colder, northern waters. So 'if' a hurricane hits NY it may be more disastrous under the same circumstances, but FL is the hurricane 'prone' area, along with the Gulf of Mexico states... not NY.



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2401 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8271 times:

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 23):
So 'if' a hurricane hits NY it may be more disastrous under the same circumstances, but FL is the hurricane 'prone' area, along with the Gulf of Mexico states... not NY.

  
It's rare that a hurricane - major or not - makes it as far as NY. Usually the worst we see is the rements of rain working their way through after landfall down south.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8270 times:

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 22):
As a lifelong Florida resident I assure you NY is not a 'hurricane prone' spot. It may very well be more sensitive to hurricane damages, not sure about that, but almost all hurricanes make a bee line from Africa to Floridas coast. Very few of them draw the energy needed to sustain them from the colder, northern waters. So 'if' a hurricane hits NY it may be more disastrous under the same circumstances, but FL is the hurricane 'prone' area, along with the Gulf of Mexico states... not NY.

HaveBlue........

You're quite right about Florida getting MOST of the hurricanes, but it doesn't get all of them; while I was aboard the U.S.S. Bushnell in 1953, our ship had just pulled into Norfolk Naval Base; as we we're going to be there overnight, the section having liberty had just departed the ship to "go ashore"; about that time, we received a radio message from ComSubLant that a major hurricane was bearing down on Norfolk, and that all vessels were ordered to get under way immediately, and were to steam out into Chesapeake Bay and drop anchor to wait out the storm; in about 2 to 3 hours, we were safely (we thought) riding at anchor out in the bay; the storm was said to have sustained winds of 145 mph, and that the "outer wall" would pass over our position in about 90 minutes. Being just 22 yrs old at the time, I had never experienced a hurricane before; it was NOTHING like one would expect; the sky was a funny yellow color, and the sea was like oil it was so calm; then, exactly as predicted, the outer wall of the storm reached us, the sea was still almost calm, but within minutes, we were straining against those 145 mph sustained winds; it was raining very hard..........sideways ! The only crew members allowed on a weather deck were people who had "special sea detail", which, unfortunately I had.

As we had both bow anchors out, PLUS our stern anchor, we had to have two men stationed beside each anchor windlass; our anchors were 15 tons each, and as they are VERY expensive, (and the anchor chain is even more expensive) no ship's C.O. wants to lose an anchor. But we were in a very unusual situation, given that we were anchored out among dozens of other large ships, (including the battleship Missouri); the problem is, in winds this strong, almost all ships will "drag anchor", and this can lead to collision; so as a precaution, the two men at the anchor windlass had a sledge hammer, and if given the order, we were to "whack" a big pin in what's called a detachable link, and the anchor chain will come in two; there was a detachable like every 36 fathoms in the chain, and we had out like several hundred fathoms of chain.

It's hard to describe this.....you can't stand up in 145mph wind; ( you can't "face into" rain at 145 mph either) we had heavy life belts, with a 3/8' SS cable securing us to the windlass, and with the cable holding you, it's all you can do to maintain a "stance" about 40 degrees to the deck. This went on for an hour or so, steady wind, almost no waves, then we got another radio message that an LST off of our starboard side was dragging anchor rapidly, was bearing down on us, and was in imminent danger of collision with us! At one point, they were so close that we were ordered to have the pin hammer "in the air, above the pin, and be ready to strike the pin out on command ! Finally, with a few hundred yards to spare, the LST managed to maneuver around us, missing us by less than 50 feet! So that's ONE hurricane that didn't hit Florida.

Thinking back, I'll bet that was a "brown trouser moment" for several ships Captains !

The following year, in 1954, I had been transferred to shore duty at the Sub Base in New London, Ct. While I was there, we had an even worse hurricane. I'm not sure, but I don't think they assigned categories to them back then, and I can't remember if they even gave them names or not. The Sub Base is on the Thames River, up-stream about 4 miles from L.I. Sound; we got 8 feet of storm surge on the lower base, and many cars were completely submerged. The coast around New London was torn all to hell, many 40, 50 & 60 ft sail boats stacked up, torn up, houses were washed away......it was a real mess. So that's TWO hurricanes you didn't have to deal with in Florida. It doesn't happen nearly as often, but it definitely DOES happen.

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1915 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (2 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8371 times:
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Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 21):
For years, there have been TV shows on how much more prone to hurricane damage NYC is, due to a number of factors. One of the biggest being the geography which basically forces water into the harbor, as it sits right at the corner of the coast,

Are you mistaking the words 'prone' and 'vulnerable' perhaps. As we have seen so recently, yes the NYC metropolitan area is vulnerable to devastating hurricane conditions, but apart from Irene last year when was the last hurricane to impact that area........

even if the NJ/NY area got 1 per year that is still far less than FLorida and surroundig areas.

[Edited 2012-11-20 01:46:32]

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 26, posted (2 years 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8371 times:

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 25):
but apart from Irene last year when was the last hurricane to impact that area........

Floyd, 1999?



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineavnut43 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6008 times:

Now that it has been a couple of months since Sandy, how is the Enterprise doing?

User currently offlinealberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2954 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5958 times:

Quoting avnut43 (Reply 27):
Now that it has been a couple of months since Sandy, how is the Enterprise doing?

The entire pavilion housing the shuttle is in the process of being rebuilt with the hope of getting it open in time for the summer season. The whole shuttle is covered up in scaffolding so there's not much to see. Meanwhile they have a temporary exhibit on display with some photos and artifacts. What worries me is that the long term plan to move the shuttle across the street to a permanent location may be scrapped due to the cost of repairing after Sandy....

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/...-space-shuttle-enterprise-exhibit/



short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlineavnut43 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4574 times:

Does NASA have any kind of clause in the donation saying that it must be properly maintained, or a permanent building be built by said deadline, if not NASA can levy a fine, or take ownership back?

User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 30, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day ago) and read 4514 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 4):
The idea of putting it on a boat in a hurricane prone spot, was very stupid to me.

I thought the exact same thing when they announced it was going to New York; NASA has done some stupid things....IMO, this is one of them.

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 18):
Ever experienced rain drops at Mach 1?

No, and as I pointed out above in reply No 24, you definitely have no chance of surviving rainfall if you were moving anywhere near that speed; we were in very heavy rainfall, and the winds were a constant, sustained 145 mph for something like an hour and a half to two hours, in one direction; after that time, just as the Navy predicted, the eye-wall reached our position, and in just a few minutes, it was dead calm, the sea surface looked like oil, the light became a very strange yellowish-orangish color, and for about 45 minutes it was the calmest I had ever seen the sea; then, right on "schedule".....the other side of the eye-wall passed us and the same 145mph winds returned, only going in the opposite direction. A very strange experience; without being securely attached to something very substantial, it's impossible to be exposed to winds of even 100 mph without being swept over the side. And you don't want any bare skin exposed to rain when the wind is 100 mph.

I have been reading books about sailing and ocean racing all my life, and hearing accounts of how the sea becomes in big storms; contrary to what I always "assumed", being at sea during a bad storm is nothing at all like being at sea as a hurricane passes over your position; all throughout the time my ship was directly in the path of the hurricane in 1953, the surface of the sea was as smooth as a farm pond; there were no waves to speak of, but the rainfall could only be described as "torrential"; I think if anyone would have been where we were in a small pleasure boat, with 145 mph wind, I'd hate to think how fast you would have been going !



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
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